Abbrevations and acronyms are getting out of control.

[BurnedOut]

It is not surprising how kids of today fare terribly in reading comprehension tests despite it being tailor made for specific age groups. Texting destroys grammar usage and ruins its aesthetics because of improper grammar usage dotted with tiny black holes - acronyms. Won't be long when sentences turn into acronyms (actually there are a few examples)

Sam Leith's most hated online abbreviations | Written language | The Guardian

<p>From LOL to NSFW, they connote one thing, which is 'I am a douchebag'</p>

amp.theguardian.com

Common rebuttal is this - saves time and space.

Has time become so scarce in this era that teenyboppers cannot jig their fingers on a touch screen keyboard despite TTS and 'swiping' features? For some reason, this is not a thing people usually talk about. I expressed veiled annoyance at two of my friends who keep using acronyms alongside code-switching (Hindi+English or tongue+English) which is already irksome because its nearly indecipherable in most cases. I feel that teachers across the world should raise an issue on this malarkey. Sadly a beautiful language like Hindi and Marathi and other various tongues in India with a strong literature culture are being torn down to pigsties full of literate illiterates. I thoroughly respect the countries who have not succumbed to the occidental culture of - English you are not but you shall speak - only as a country bumpkin.

What is the cool part about disparaging proper usage of any language? Today's youth (post-2000s) can barely read newspapers despite being in college insofar actual courses being in place to 'teach newspaper reading' because most 18 year olds cannot even skim through a wikipedia page?!

Almost none of classmates who were majoring with me used wikipedia to gain even a simplistic understanding about a concept/topic while doing our projects. Reading a textbook could either have you perceived as a wiseacre or as a god which is probably one of the funniest observations I have made in my life. Reading textbooks when you are in universities is a job considered to be that of the professor and not the students. No kids had the balls to buy textbooks or even attempt to read it online. I was the only one using fat economics and statistics books to figure what is what because the lectures used to be boringly snail-paced to the extent of causing me to doze off.

 

[Hadoblado]

That article hurts to read. Dated boomer pedantry.

I don't really see how abbreviations and acronyms can lower reading comprehension as a skill long term.

If literacy rates are dropping, there are other things I would suspect before text speak. I'd investigate the long-term impact of screened device access on cognitive development, for example.

I would want to see some sort of statistic though because your experience doesn't align with mine.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I agree.

 

[Cognisant]

Hahaha oh sweet summer child,= try working in government IT.

DSDILGP's (Department of Infrastructure Local Government and Planning, pronounced "diz-jip") GMRS (grants management and reporting system, pronounced "gee-meres") is down due to a DNS (denial of service attack) on <server name> (also an acronym) but should be back to BAU (business as usual) by EOD (end of the day).

We have entire conversations like this.

 

[BurnedOut]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140519160531.htmhttps://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140519160531.htm

How Texting Changes Communication - GoodTherapy.org Therapy Blog

The increased use of texting is changing the ways people communicate and blurring the line between public and private.

www.goodtherapy.org

Texting May Lead to Bad Grammar

A new study found that tweens who text are more likely to fall short on grammar tests.

www.livescience.com

Why is vocabulary shrinking?

Vocabulary decline in adult non-Hispanic White Americans (controlled for years of education completed) "Are Americans more intellige...

evoandproud.blogspot.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-06-14/study-people-are-getting-dumber

Forget the Kids: Adults Are the Ones Getting Dumber

Critics have long lamented how America's lacking education system hurts young people. But a new Associated Press study says not to worry about the youth — because adults are the ones getting dumber.

www.theatlantic.com

Why American Students Haven't Gotten Better at Reading in 20 Years

Schools usually focus on teaching comprehension skills instead of general knowledge—even though education researchers know better.

www.theatlantic.com

As usual Obese States of America and the west bear the brunt of all the sleighride being carried out on these topics. I don't speak without evidence and when I am criticising something, I ensure that I have plenteous evidence to back my arguments. It is unsurprising to see how the developed countries' progeny are progressively turning into slabs of fat nestling in a dirtied bed watching Netflix and consuming any kind of garbage of YouTube, etc.

That article hurts to read. Dated boomer pedantry.

You are above 30 and hence it is easy for you to dismiss all these notions coming from the mouth of a younger person who is describing his own age group with contempt. Most adults who are smitten by technology behave even worse than their own children. Look closely and you will find how the adults of this era have simply given their kids a free leash when it comes to technology. This is not 'boomer pedantry' because the boomers have proven themselves to be more childish than children themselves regarding consumption of digital scat. If the boomers acted like gatekeepers to technology in a real sense, I would not be seeing walking jellies in place of children and their parents everywhere I go. Children don't turn out to be dumb by themselves. They are greatly influenced by the adult figures in their lives. If kids' reading skills are hurting, 'boomers' should rather be consulted for remedying the worrying the situation - encouraging the kid to stop jacking off to YouTube reaction channels and get into sports and plain ole reading. Clearly that is not happening. Where are the boomers of the world?

If literacy rates are dropping, there are other things I would suspect before text speak. I'd investigate the long-term impact of screened device access on cognitive development, for example.

Literacy rates are not dropping. In fact in this era, research has proven that millennia consume vast amounts of information through some source or the other but the lack of actually processing the information is turning them into sloths who are simply addicted to information in the form of entertainment. The 'infotainment' industry is a new emerging giant but this infotainment industry does not delve deeply into the existing corpora but chooses to cherry-pick certain things that can be deemed as information but not feasible for long-term retention. This causes the seeming paradox of increasing information consumption alongside eroding reasoning skills. Also, I used the phrase 'illiterate literates' referring to people who are literate but are too lazy to actually apply their learned skills in other disciplines. In other words, abstract reasoning is being grossly ignored in this age in lieu of constant overstimulation.

I'd investigate the long-term impact of screened device access on cognitive development, for example.

Even the dumbest person on this earth will say that the long-term impact of screened device access is retarding cognitive development due to a new kind of economy that is emerging - 'attention economy'.

Textspeak when considered alongside deteriorating abstract reasoning skills, less proclivity to read for fun, urge for instant but passive engagement in the form of YouTube and Netflix, kids and undergrads have shittier vocabularies and explosion of social media engagement clearly points towards how textspeak is a wider sign of growing disarray in the world. I don't blame textspeak for everything. My intention was to highlight how big of a nuisance textspeak is in this era because of utter absence of elegant spoken and written word outside of academia and work. I say spoken also because the millennia is increasing bringing these acronyms into spoken word. Instead of chortling naturally with a 'hahahaha' or even smiling bemusedly, the millennia barks a loud 'LOL'. Also, would you not lose it if someone over a span of several years has learned to express an emotion via an emoticon than beautifully writing about it? Who the fuck substitutes complex describable emotions for emojis?

 

[BurnedOut]

DSDILGP's (Department of Infrastructure Local Government and Planning, pronounced "diz-jip") GMRS (grants management and reporting system, pronounced "gee-meres") is down due to a DNS (denial of service attack) on <server name> (also an acronym) but should be back to BAU (business as usual) by EOD (end of the day).

But this is a legitimate case where conversations without acronyms for departments is tortuous and excruciating.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I like Z acronym.
You go from Zapad to Z.
I mean acronyms are like symbols. Hitler used them why can't we?

 

[BurnedOut]

Z

By Hitler, do you mean Putin? He is responsible for sparking of the trend of spraypainting Z on every surface known to man in Russia

 

[ZenRaiden]

Z

By Hitler, do you mean Putin? He is responsible for sparking of the trend of spraypainting Z on every surface known to man in Russia

Actually it was Romans, who took it from Jewish, hebrew literature.
Hitler liked copying Romans.
Putin is just copying Jews

 

[Hadoblado]

You are above 30 and hence it is easy for you to dismiss all these notions coming from the mouth of a younger person who is describing his own age group with contempt. Most adults who are smitten by technology behave even worse than their own children. Look closely and you will find how the adults of this era have simply given their kids a free leash when it comes to technology. This is not 'boomer pedantry' because the boomers have proven themselves to be more childish than children themselves regarding consumption of digital scat. If the boomers acted like gatekeepers to technology in a real sense, I would not be seeing walking jellies in place of children and their parents everywhere I go. Children don't turn out to be dumb by themselves. They are greatly influenced by the adult figures in their lives. If kids' reading skills are hurting, 'boomers' should rather be consulted for remedying the worrying the situation - encouraging the kid to stop jacking off to YouTube reaction channels and get into sports and plain ole reading. Clearly that is not happening. Where are the boomers of the world?

Spoiler

Hahaha seriously though, the article you're citing originally was 2013. I was early 20s then. People were texting and saying LOL aloud when I was in school and I was... Well I shared your perspective and I was similarly vocal about it (I advocated a frenetic conlang). Not anymore though. Language is incidental to communication and I don't believe in controlling it. Literally literally means figuratively and figuratively means nothing yadidyadiya. It's more like evolution where it might seem like species go backwards but within their niche it's adaptive. Vocabulary has no intrinsic worth if it doesn't help us communicate.

Emojis and textisms are good communication, even if they're not good language. The aesthetic is garish but I'm not shuffling these thumbs to sculpt a masterpiece I'm trying to tell my mum I'll be late.

Re: Studies
Woah slow down. I'll take one decent metastudy over a million blogs and American based datasets. Not that I can find one :S

If all the studies are from America then it could be as simple as [insert any number of American government failings]. One is about adults, one is about IQ. I'm not saying there isn't a trend, I just don't see strong evidence for one and couldn't find any on scholar.

 

[scorpiomover]

It is not surprising how kids of today fare terribly in reading comprehension tests despite it being tailor made for specific age groups. Texting destroys grammar usage and ruins its aesthetics because of improper grammar usage dotted with tiny black holes - acronyms. Won't be long when sentences turn into acronyms (actually there are a few examples)

Sam Leith's most hated online abbreviations | Written language | The Guardian

<p>From LOL to NSFW, they connote one thing, which is 'I am a douchebag'</p>

amp.theguardian.com

Common rebuttal is this - saves time and space.

Has time become so scarce in this era that teenyboppers cannot jig their fingers on a touch screen keyboard despite TTS and 'swiping' features?

Teens would chat for ages on landlines. When mobiles first came out, they charged by the minute. So lots of people started texting more. But texting on a number pad is slow, and messages were restricted to a max of 150 chars. So people got into text-speak, as a means of being more efficient and saving themselves from spending money they didn't need to spend.

Once most teens were using text-speak, they naturally started to flow over into regular conversation. They started saying "LOL". As other teens already knew what LOL meant, LOL was a good way of expressing that.

So it crept into the language.

What is the cool part about disparaging proper usage of any language? Today's youth (post-2000s) can barely read newspapers despite being in college insofar actual courses being in place to 'teach newspaper reading' because most 18 year olds cannot even skim through a wikipedia page?!

Clearly, you wouldn't have a course for 'newspaper reading', if everyone could read newspapers and understand them. So clearly, some people agree that such abilities have been lost.

But how has 'newspaper reading' been lost, when no-one was taught how to read a newspaper in the past?

People have gotten used to instant information at their fingertips. They can order taxis with an Uber. They can order food on their phone. They can sit at home until they get called on their mobile, before they have to get the taxi or the food. If they want to watch something, they can go onto Netflix and watch any Netflix show, any time. They don't want to wait, because they're not used to waiting anymore.

So they want shorter sentences, more direct speech, articles & people that "get to the point already", the same as the rest of their life.

Pity that you can't just beam information directly into the brain, like a brain delivery. Uber and Amazon haven't got there yet.

 

[ZenRaiden]

NSFW is really dumb, because unless you know what it is, and today they even blur out the thing, before you click, you bout the have bad time at work if you never checked what it means.

We live in buddhist paradise, really, we live in the now today.
And unsurprisingly we are more happier living in the now.

 

[BurnedOut]

So they want shorter sentences, more direct speech, articles & people that "get to the point already", the same as the rest of their life.

Until the ramifications of emotional nuances of such usage of language start merging with their general perspective. Some study showed that chatting is being preferred by today's teens due to obsessive need of anonymity and distance. That translates to into a general kind of distant behaviour that teenagers display. This coincides with the fact that obesity and mental health disorders are disproportionality rising among millennia. The lack of phone calling or anything that is concretely sensory instead of being afflictes by schematas attached to behaviours in general, boppers are shittier at deciphering emotions and even conveying them. Internalizing and victimizing is a rampant behaviour (I have been through it) that pervades the millennia. Combine that with poor abstract reasoning skills and a crappier memory. Do you see the dots?

 

[BurnedOut]

Woah slow down. I'll take one decent metastudy over a million blogs and American based datasets. Not that I can find one :S

These 'useless' blogs you derisively categorize as poppsy bullshit, the researches bark results based on numbers. These are not self-reported things unlike those crappy 'MBTI-is-legit' psychology articles. These are based on interviews, large surveys and data obtained mathematically. I'd prefer this over any popsy barney.

Anyway, I feel the writing is clearly on the walls. I am again repeating myself - I consider this as not the ultimate cause but a symptom and propagator of negative behaviours manifesting in todays tweens.

 

[BurnedOut]

They started saying "LOL". As other teens already knew what LOL meant, LOL was a good way of expressing that.

So it crept into the language.

The inertia is alarming even as proper texting apps emerged on the internet. This was also the age of emails and all types of social media. This was also when blogging was a trend. Unfortunately, acronyms outpaced other better forms of language usage. It ultimately influenced teens' conflict resolution abilities their grammar and vocabularies got hit by such base usage. That resulted into a poor ability to clearly express emotions and you can figure the rest.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Everything is about expedience and communication is reflects action.
If you talk in full sentences vs, short meaningless jumbless that is based on necessity.
Talking via messages, is not optional so your study is equivalent of postman ranting that no one sends letters, and uses emails.
You should really get that checked out? Emotional stuff I mean.
Also the fact you are connecting obesity with communication is like the dumbest connection. I mean if you get 1000 000 scientist together to say something super dumb, it is cool, but its not the science its the scientist getting together agreeing on bullshit that is cool.

 

[Hadoblado]

Woah slow down. I'll take one decent metastudy over a million blogs and American based datasets. Not that I can find one :S

These 'useless' blogs you derisively categorize as poppsy bullshit, the researches bark results based on numbers. These are not self-reported things unlike those crappy 'MBTI-is-legit' psychology articles. These are based on interviews, large surveys and data obtained mathematically. I'd prefer this over any popsy barney.

Anyway, I feel the writing is clearly on the walls. I am again repeating myself - I consider this as not the ultimate cause but a symptom and propagator of negative behaviours manifesting in todays tweens.

The first blog (https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/texting-teens-adults-communication-0726126) does not talk about vocabulary at all. Neither does any of its sources. I don't trust it because it's a blog that cites blogs, but it's also not even claiming to be the evidence that you think it is.

The second blog is about vocabulary. It cites a real article. This is much better evidence (but I would cite the article, not the blog). The blogger is critical, which makes it worth reading IMO, but they seem to have some strong world views which they're interpreting the article through. They think there is a "growing number of students who don't belong (in college)". Their explanations also appear to overfit the data:

This does not read as multiple slumps and rises to me, this is a trend with noise. You can draw a straight line through it. But they analyses it as if it goes up and down.

That said, these dates don't line up with texting as an explanation. They say " The post-2008 vocabulary decline, if it’s real, might reflect the growing importance of iPhone texting since the late 2000s."

This is the decline they're talking about:

Spoiler

This is noise. If I took away the X axis and asked randoms to pinpoint when they think texting entered the equation, there would unlikely be a relationship between 2008 and their answers.

The article they cite is here. I found it interesting but didn't have the time/patience to fully understand their analyses regarding cohort etc.

Possible confounds:
- This is based on America. These trends might be specific to America (and my money would be on this because America sucks at this sort of thing).
- The measure is only 10 items and has remained constant this entire time. This means that it is quite sensitive to variance in the use of the specific words on it. This entire effect could be that one word on the measure has fallen out of use, which is something known to happen. Language evolves.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Language is dynamic system.
Science of language can look and language principals, but invariably it goes all the way to neurology and neurolinguistics.

Human language is adaptation.
5 or 10 years from now we might be growing a vocab over 1000 new words without even noticing it.

People are early in adoption of new words.
Fastest way to acquire new vocab is work or some hobby.
According to the dictionary I have it contains some 300 000 words or entries, depending how you look at it.
This means you could learn almost 1000 words a day and still find new words at the end of the year, more or less.
Not to mention just IT contains a new word each year if not each month.
Even games have their own idiosyncratic vocab.
I don't know how the word frag got into FPS games.
Maybe it was there long before I started playing games, but its not a word that actually as far as I know AFAIK exist in any FPS game.
Essentially the original meaning of the word is when in vietnam soldiers used grenades in firefights to injure or kill their commander in order to get out of combat.
Throwing a grenade killed the commander and it was hard to know who did it, essentially making the unit leave combat.
It got pretty bad with low morals and these incidents spread like wild fire at lowest point of war for US.
Somehow this word "frag" now means to score a point by killing someone in FPS game? How? lol.

As for abbreviations the dictionary I have covers the basics, but even if you learn every entry by heart, you would still not go far in real life.

Every profession, technical, academic, or service oriented has its own unique abbreviations.
Even McDonalds has absurd abbreviations and no one knows what they mean despite working there for years, and using them everyday.
Once making the effort to google them, I realized most of them mean jack shit.
It was nice knowing what they mean, but in real life the abbreviation was all about knowing what you mean, the actual unpacked abbreviation was no more informative.
Bridge Operating Platform is a table specifically designed to hold tools and condiments for assorted tasks. You stand there and do stuff that is it!. You don't need to know what BOP means, even though everyone uses it.
To add insult to injury most people still on internet could not agree what it really means and other work related things were hotly disputed too.
Meaning you can know, but as far meaning goes for BOP it was the place you tried to survive with out losing your mind.

 

[BurnedOut]

This is based on America. These trends might be specific to America (and my money would be on this because America sucks at this sort of thing).

Same with India. Probably can be replicated in a lot of other major countries. Scandinavian countries were expected to top the reading list despite their better education system but that is not the case. The law of big numbers plays a role in all the countries which consume digital content.

 

[BurnedOut]

Also the fact you are connecting obesity with communication is like the dumbest connection

I fail to see how. Obesity has been linked to poor social receptivity, lower self esteem and greater susceptility to mental illnesses, not to mention physical ones. How can obesity not be linked to communication if it has vast psychological implications? Resilience's core components include communication abilities and sufficient amounts of self-respect. Both of these factors get defenestrated when the obese is in the china shop. It is similar to how an obese person would tip random things over in a tightly packed shop (china shop). I agree that I made the connection hastedly but it is a valid connection.

 

[BurnedOut]

The first blog (https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/texting-teens-adults-communication-0726126) does not talk about vocabulary at all. Neither does any of its sources. I don't trust it because it's a blog that cites blogs, but it's also not even claiming to be the evidence that you think it is.

I'll be uncharacteristic of myself and claim that I 'sound like an INFJ'. To be honest, I could intuitively see the dots and figured that acronyms have a correlation with everything wrong with the millennia but I was busier in developing my rhetoric based on (in my opinion) proper logical reasoning in order to show my frustration rather than making a rational debate. It is my folly that I did not vet the sources enough (due to lack of time) but my conviction that incorrect acronym usage is somehow linked to the larger findings, stays largely unshaken. I feel that there is ample evidence of demented acronym usage further deteriorating cognition. I am trying to look at the largest picture possible. So it may be true that my sources don't seem too reliable. I wish I could start one of my own but I really don't have enough time to engage in surveying, at this point in my life Hope you understand

 

[BurnedOut]

You should really get that checked out? Emotional stuff I mean.

Although I have not scientifically verified my theory, I am attempting to interprete not just one but many evidences as being causal to one another's veracity. From a bird eye's view, I could see a large network of connections between acronym usage, miscommunication, eroding abstract reasoning skills, etc. You can consider this as an original assertion of my own. Consider this thread analogous to the curious sigficantly high correlation between GK and general intelligence even though GK seems like a part of crystallized intelligence. The explanation is that high general intelligence is likely to lead to higher levels of data acquistion and also the fact that g itself gets influenced by amounts of information accumulation as reading on a variety of topics leads to greater development of abstract reasoning skills as more information crosses over its domain of usage and finds creative usage in another field.

 

[Hadoblado]

I feel like you're responding to an expectation that isn't held?

Don't do your own study. Leave it to people that get paid. If the entire world hasn't managed to fund a decent study then it's not up to you to do it. For this stuff it'd take thousands of participants. If this is what you want to do, find a way to get paid to do it.

Can I ask your education? You seem well educated but not in specifically this. Like you're generalising tools from somewhere else expecting them to work. This isn't a takedown - just honest observation. I've done a little bit of psycholinguistics at uni, and you seem to be engaging critically but the media with which you interact is not what you'd see in academia. I feel as if you'd do really well if reoriented.

Basically, it's not important to follow some academic doctrine of what conclusions are right, but it's important to be aware of current conclusions. Blogs etc. generally won't get you far enough to meaningfully engage with the field.

What you have is a hypothesis and not a terrible one. I do believe your conviction is unfounded, but I don't think you're necessarily wrong. My issue is that you're "creating" evidence to fit your conclusion. Which is normal, but not good science.

I wish there was a way I could reward people better for being open to criticism....

 

[BurnedOut]

Don't do your own study. Leave it to people that get paid. If the entire world hasn't managed to fund a decent study then it's not up to you to do it. For this stuff it'd take thousands of participants. If this is what you want to do, find a way to get paid to do it.

I like theorizing. I know I am far from equipped to make scientific guesses but I feel that I am knowledgeable enough to make a claim and furthermore provide at least some amount of veritable theory that may be probable in reality. Morever since I have already clarified that the purpose of this post is to raise awareness more than provide a detailed scientific account of the same, I don't feel that I would be necessarily writing a persuasive argument if I keep mentioning the simplest of nitty-gritty to everybody because that won't be an act of raising awareness but an act of academic inquiry. My phraseology is not unbiased. You can sense that I am incensed. I am not going to and I don't want to focus on turning a persuasive piece into an academic inquiry because that was never my intention in the first place.

Like you're generalising tools from somewhere else expecting them to work. This isn't a takedown - just honest observation. I've done a little bit of psycholinguistics at uni, and you seem to be engaging critically but the media with which you interact is not what you'd see in academia. I feel as if you'd do really well if reoriented.

Can you provide some evidence? All of my claims stand more or less are validly backed by researches.

My issue is that you're "creating" evidence to fit your conclusion.

How can I 'invent' evidence? I am citing evidence to support my hypothesis. I am pretty sure that intpf is not a place for writing down research papers but for expressing ideas.

I wish there was a way I could reward people better for being open to criticism....

In my case, a better criticism that is more elaborate
will definitely be appreciated by me. I am always open for a good debate. In fact I am enjoying replying to you guys.

Basically, it's not important to follow some academic doctrine of what conclusions are right, but it's important to be aware of current conclusions. Blogs etc.

You yourself stated that you did not have enough time to go through my citations. Since I knew that blogs were not the best way to go, I put it in anyway because 'most' (emphasis on 'most') of the articles I have cited have hyperlinks directly to research papers with a decent sample size. Moreover, that is just one blog you had an issue with. Even that did blog's first citation was to a research paper than to some other blog.

This does not read as multiple slumps and rises to me, this is a trend with noise. You can draw a straight line through it. But they analyses it as if it goes up and down.

That said, these dates don't line up with texting as an explanation. They say " The post-2008 vocabulary decline, if it’s real, might reflect the growing importance of iPhone texting since the late 2000s."

I read the study. It had a large sample size. Like you said, it clearly shows a trend - albeit a declining one. The important thing to note is how the vocabularies of graduates and high school kids are decreasing. This clearly coincides with the rise of social media and lack of reading.

Also, it has a very large sample size. And that my deductions were not mere guesses and usage of 'random tools being generalized across disciplines' -

So what I saw is what is actually happening in reality to some extent if I were to consider the magnanimous sample size.

---

No offense HB. Your adult life and mine have one stark difference - my age is considered to be the peak of open-mindedness and I have the advantage of actually researching all this much more than you do which should statistically make my assertions more informed than yours in areas that you and I are both unacquainted with. This is nothing to do with intelligence but rather life priorities. While criticizing me, you ended committing the same mistakes. And also, I am, in fact, studying psycholinguistics as a side hobby since a while.

Working for money selectively amplifies recalling of information that is pragmatically useful but in the process of being pragmatic, one also loses his open-mindedness and toleration of ambiguities. That is a necessary trade-off for efficiency, so I get the point you are making but I am not willing to completely accept your criticism and hence the replies. But thanks anyway.

 

[Hadoblado]

This is getting big - that's my fault I think. But I do want to try to keep post size down.

I feel like you are taking the most aggressive stance when you can, but when challenged you're retreating to a more defensible claim (motte and bailey). You simultaneously claim scientific validity while insisting you shouldn't be held accountable to scientific rigor. For what it's worth, challenging people is my way of engaging with persuasive pieces - I can stop if you like.

Re: Tools
I was saying that's what it seems like. I'm not making a strong claim, it was the basis for a question. I often try to offer my honest impression so that people will know where I'm at, and encourage people to correct that impression so I know where they are at. If you think it doesn't fit I'm probably just wrong :shrug:

Re: "Invent" evidence
I mean that you find the evidence to confirm the point you're making. I asked for evidence, you then posted a bunch of evidence. But this wasn't the evidence that led you to the position (because if it was you would not have arrived at the position). This is funnily enough what academia encourages - you need to write the essay and you need a reference list.

Re: Better, more elaborate criticism
I am trying my best to cut down how much I write. So I don't want to get ever more elaborate, but I will try to do better.

Re: Evidence
I had an issue with all of the evidence posted. I chose to address the evidence that you highlighted (the blogs). All of it was America specific, some was about IQ, some were blogs. None of it was a direct article. We can agree to disagree that your evidence was "valid".

Re: Trend
The trend does not match technology. It's recorded going back to the 1970 before texting was invented. It doesn't matter how big of a sample size you have if the results don't support your conclusion. This is an example of the sort of claim that gives me the impression you're misapplying tools. To support your conclusion you would want either no trend and then a dip as texting is invented, or a trend that gets worse when texting is invented. The trend that coincides with social media also coincides with a lack of social media.

No offense HB. Your adult life and mine have one stark difference - my age is considered to be the peak of open-mindedness and I have the advantage of actually researching all this much more than you do which should statistically make my assertions more informed than yours in areas that you and I are both unacquainted with. This is nothing to do with intelligence but rather life priorities. While criticizing me, you ended committing the same mistakes. And also, I am, in fact, studying psycholinguistics as a side hobby since a while.

Working for money selectively amplifies recalling of information that is pragmatically useful but in the process of being pragmatic, one also loses his open-mindedness and toleration of ambiguities. That is a necessary trade-off for efficiency, so I get the point you are making but I am not willing to completely accept your criticism and hence the replies. But thanks anyway.

Sorry dude this is another example. Population statistics are not meant to compare individuals and it's wild that you would do that.

Mmmm okay I think I'll leave this here it's not feeling collaborative and that's probably on me. I respect that you took some criticism on board, I still think you lack meta-awareness of your own bias and field-specific competence but I do think you're doing a good job and I don't want to stop you. Good luck.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Does a drop in literacy correlate with a decrease in cognitive ability?
Maybe the modern world is becoming so much easier to navigate that less general knowledge and less vocabulary is sufficient to do everything that needs to be done every day.
Efficient, succinct use of simple or abbreviated language doesn't necessarily mean there's loss of information or loss of complexity.
I would be interested to see a study on IT professionals who probably have great knowledge of their fields, good technical literacy and declining general literacy.

What you've described of your colleagues says more about the difference between you and them than about a trend, you're an outlier. Do you know how well they're doing in life? I'm pretty sure that when presented with new problems they would have a few gaps in knowledge, but would be able to adjust without greatly expanding their vocabulary. I know some pretty smart people who have never read a book in their life.

The graphs you link seem to coincide with the rising dominance of visual media over textual ones. TV and the internet communicate audiovisual information that leaves less space for text and the text that is shown has to be simplified and contracted to fit on the screen.

Code-switching is a natural thing for multilingual people and I think it leads to a richer, mixed language idiolect and better expressiveness than a person could achieve by increasing their literacy in just one language.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Older the language the more adjectives and more developed and complex structure.
Being eloquent was a status symbol, and literacy too.
Books were often written for higher class of society that had masterful grasp of language in written form, so writers would spend 4 pages describing mundane things to show off, how cool they are and artistic.
Its what heavy reading was.
It was an art form, and to this many authors use this form of overwriting and overscripting books to suck you into the world, but also to depict things in more vivid details.
Its not always the most popular books though.
Most best sellers are usually short succinct to the point with minimal exposition and captivating themes and characters.

Comparably you get books like Harry Potter, and if you look at books that were most poplar they often are fairly bare bones to writing, to what was considering serious literature.
The fun thing is, that if you scrape off the lard of words you end with fairly primitive ideas in this literature that amount to fairly simple points despite the wordy structure.

Nuance in words can however get more information through there is no question about it.

For instance you can be boring and informative with same amount of words.