Love

[HDINTP]

To be quite honest, I didn't really know where to put it since i don't think it is really about human relationships so i give it here.

I want you to tell me what is your own definition of love as concept. I don't want you to copy wikipedia for me.

And better next thing i would like you to tell me is that what are main differences between sex and love in your opinion. So if you think that real love is something that actually doesn't need physical interaction between bodies, but it is true i used to think i am unable to really express my love to female so well without that.

I don't even know if i ever was in love and if it was like that then i would just had to destroy life of female that is married still since that time already has two children and age difference is relatively big. And here i go for next point of this thread: You know what i feel like if am ever gonna have family then in best possible outcome i see is that everyone will be happy except me! I will watch my female raising our children and still never tell this so called truth how i see it just trying to make sure i am not gonna break her heart which would probably mean i maybe love that person for real.

Today it really hit me that you know love and sex. And i think this is really good idea what was said back then. Sex is it is just physical attraction i would even say attachment is kind of torture too. Sex is like you wanna release, like just give me that orgasm come on but it is not love. Take for example when you are having sex and the phone rings then sex is just frustrated isn't? Love is fine we can come back to that after that. Or when children come while you almost got to your orgasm. Sex is angry just unhappy while love is maybe fine this is nice how much energy do our children have you know what i am trying to say don't you? After i heard this it really made sense to me. I think the definition or idea i got from this when i was thinking was like: Well, if this is true then there is almost not love mostly when we talk about relationship between people where i come from point i already mentioned earlier about not actually have that need for sex. And Platonic love that is what i have probably experienced already.

Last thing is that i think if i really was in love with other person then i wouldn't even have sex with her because i would just see well unhappines and despite that i am pessimistic according to people that know me well (really few) i am happy in the end because i don't think i can say i am not happy. That love i just think we would divorce once and perhaps not even see each other anymore. In worst case not see our potential children so i would rather watch her from a distance and make sure she feels fine and happy. Once i even somehow came to conclusion that there is just about 10.000 females or girls maybe better women i don't know how you want it that i would be able to take relationship at least 2 months which someone could say is horrible or so sad but i don't expect it on this forum. INTPs are supposed to not understand their own emotions so well aren't they? And it is like i met two women in last hmm... my whole life i think i was really something different it was so would call it pre-love. Although there were girls i just was attracted physically to but i don't think it is love...

Maybe i also needed to ask you or i just wanted to give some kind of inspiration in some unusal form. No matter what it is just try to answer please... and yes second woman i felt different with reminded me the one i thought it could have been something more then just physical attractness but i think it was not.

 

[nanook]

love is acceptance of what is. but that doesn't mean acceptance of how you think things are. to the contrary: love is decreased to the degree we believe in any of our thoughts (that includes the narrative that comes with emotions). love is not a feeling, not an attachment and nothing in particular. it's not compatibility, or liking someone, it's not a fundamental reason for a romantic relationship, it's just a requirement for any relationship that is supposed to be more than mere exchange of projections. love is not in itself a connection of sorts. and love is not something we need or can get. love is what we are, even if our ability to realize what we are is tiny and rare. love is the only thing that can put an end to the endless referential horror of symbolic consciousness. love accepts every form and it also let's it go, forgives it, allowing it's destruction, allowing birth of new forms. love is the metabolic drive of the psyche.

the more false ideas you have about how love is supposed to look, what it's supposed to achieve and so on, the further away you move from realisation of love. love is totally simple. but love cannot be grasped or mastered. all the development of the ability to love is in looking at and understanding what it is, that diminishes love. what is not love.

 

[HDINTP]

love is acceptance of what is. but that doesn't mean acceptance of how you think things are. to the contrary: love is decreased to the degree we believe in any of our thoughts (that includes the narrative that comes with emotions). love is not a feeling, not an attachment and nothing in particular. it's not compatibility, or liking someone, it's not the fundament of a romantic relationship, it's just a requirement for any relationship that is supposed to be more than mere exchange of projections. love is not in itself a connection of sorts. and love is not something we need or can get. love is what we are, even if our ability to realize what we are is tiny and rare. love is the only thing that can put an end to the endless referential horror of symbolic consciousness. love accepts every form and it also let's it go, forgives it, allowing it's destruction, allowing birth of new forms. love is the metabolic drive of the psyche.

Fine makes sense you got far yes but...um it is you idea?

 

[Minuend]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_basis_of_love

 

[Polaris]

^ I love you.

 

[nanook]

has nothing to do with me. just insight.

 

[HDINTP]

^ I love you.

I love you too and so much... That could mean that not many people know exactly what the love is.

 

[NinjaSurfer]

well most people say "one in a million"

the means there are seven (7) million million (= 7 billion) people on earth, divided by two, divided by 1 million, so still roughly 3.5 million women spread across this earth who would be perfect for you, just gotta go find em I guess

Regarding love-- here's an inverted way to express it ==> if you're willing to let her go for her own good, and see if she returns. That's the cliche at least. If you're willing to let someone go, that shows that you're not obsessively possessive of her. There really is not a good way to test it except being honest with yourself.

However, since you're willing to raise a family FOR THE GIRL, while you do not really want that, I can assume that you have a good grasp of "love" since you are wiling to bend over backwards for the one you "love." This is a very selfless quality which I think is reflective of love.

however-- "true love" is when the other person loves you back for being YOU. And if you're hiding the true "you," meaning, you are being anything less than 100% genuine, then your relationship is somewhat based on lies, and you are projecting an image that is not really you. So if you have kids, and you pretend that you want kids when you really don't-- then you have caused your love to fall in love with a false image of yourself, which would not equate to reciprocal 2-way "true love."

I think "true love" must have the quality of reciprocity or it cannot really be considered love.

I don't even think I've found it before, maybe I have. To me, true love is still somewhat like a unicorn, something I can define but have never actually seen/found.

 

[HDINTP]

well most people say "one in a million"

the means there are seven (7) million million (= 7 billion) people on earth, divided by two, divided by 1 million, so still roughly 3.5 million women spread across this earth who would be perfect for you, just gotta go find em I guess

Regarding love-- here's an inverted way to express it ==> if you're willing to let her go for her own good, and see if she returns. That's the cliche at least. If you're willing to let someone go, that shows that you're not obsessively possessive of her. There really is not a good way to test it except being honest with yourself.

However, since you're willing to raise a family FOR THE GIRL, while you do not really want that, I can assume that you have a good grasp of "love" since you are wiling to bend over backwards for the one you "love." This is a very selfless quality which I think is reflective of love.



however-- "true love" is when the other person loves you back for being YOU. And if you're hiding the true "you," meaning, you are being anything less than 100% genuine, then your relationship is somewhat based on lies, and you are projecting an image that is not really you. So if you have kids, and you pretend that you want kids when you really don't-- then you have caused your love to fall in love with a false image of yourself, which would not equate to reciprocal 2-way "true love."

I think "true love" must have the quality of reciprocity or it cannot really be considered love.

I don't even think I've found it before, maybe I have. To me, true love is still somewhat like a unicorn, something I can define but have never actually seen/found.

I just want to make her happy you know and if i am half-wrong then it is great i should try and then i will see. If she refuses me then well, how you said just to find them because in my whole life i have found just two i think i love... I am young so what.

Thank you for your answer this was in my opinion the one that is the closest to perfect. Perfect does not exist, does it? Yes it probably depends on circumstances so..? nice song neighbors listen to right now...

 

[HDINTP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_basis_of_love

In the end it was at least interesting article if not more. You always somehow hit me.

 

[NinjaSurfer]

well if you are willing to do that for "her" -- she should be willing to NOT have kids for YOU! lol... you need to be more selfish and I'm sure you will eventually find a girl who has the same values about children and life and cares about your happiness as much as you do about hers...

if you have to change yourself too much for the other person, you're not going to be happy and I believe that love is about both parties being happy together; if one party is unhappy then what is the point? that is not true love.

 

[HDINTP]

well if you are willing to do that for "her" -- she should be willing to NOT have kids for YOU! lol... you need to be more selfish and I'm sure you will eventually find a girl who has the same values about children and life and cares about your happiness as much as you do about hers...

if you have to change yourself too much for the other person, you're not going to be happy and I believe that love is about both parties being happy together; if one party is unhappy then what is the point? that is not true love.

bull's eye!!! But this is the thing or problem or how you name it. I was thinking about that and yes that is it. Came to conclusion i won't be happy. I will watch woman have children in best option i see children and her being happy and i will be qiute because i don't want to hurt her.

Next thing why i don't think it is just physical attraction is that it is really but really different.

And about being selfish. That is next i think crucial thing. Even my family tell me i am too selfish, arrogant and things like that and i probably am but when i see, talk to, thing about this woman i am not. I can be so soft to her, happy, not so pessimistic and sceptical.

Here we go. She is married and has two children, well at least i have seen two until this moment, no i haven't seen husband. This is why i think if i truly love her i shoud maybe let her be if she is happy but if she won't be or he ever hurts her then... i am ready to help her if i am forced to say it like this.

It is like i would have some happy self of mine hidden in me and she always activates it and i don't even think i would need sex, maybe later but not that much.

You know my previous philosophy of man and woman don't you? Someone may say it is cruel from me...?

She changes it all and i don't even consider it weird like earlier in this case. I don't even feel like being hunted or caught.

I thought point was to reproduce and do something not being depressed and you know she even motivates me in other ways even if she doesn't know it yet. And i am almost sure (I can never be 100% sure right or can i?) that this is not how those who's this language mother is call it crush? And it is not like i didn't have feelings as an INTP it just is that i wasn't able to understand them as well, can we say this is right?

And this is another chapter isn't it? Like i have found out that or i had it. I quite analyzed her or something like that i even first made her IQ test and she did better than i thought she would. That doesn't matter that much but her MBTI is probably ENFJ. I read that they get along quite well (i don't mean as partners) it is quite like two sided pedagogue relationship because my inferior function is her dominant or opposites and we are both Ns even though shhe has Ni and i have Ne 2ndF. She taught me i think a lot about well softly "forced" me to use my emotions more open myself. So it can be just that we get along well i thinik.

Another thing. I think i mentioned it earlier: "If i really loved someone i would maybe even try to avoid sexual intercourse because i am scared? of that we would break up and possibly not be friends. And if we break up it doesn't have to be necessarily because i don't love her anymore does it? If i don't choose biological basis of love as starting point...?

Next girl i like a lot is the best when i write with her or write about her it helped me a lot so i would call it Platonic Love can i?

And as i am always talking about my Imaginary mentor( best friend in my head in the same time) creating imaginary girlfriend or something would be too much wouldn't it? Besides it would not really work. It would be category 3, something again completly different i think...

You got me into deeper conversation and thought process. I don't know you but it helps.

 

[NinjaSurfer]

cool, happy I can help you sort out your thoughts/feelings;

here's a potential outsider view of your situation; although I am hoping you have found true love, I just highly doubt it. It seems like she is a married woman with kids who is unhappy with her relationship and using you to fulfill what she is not getting from her husband. Some women read romance books, some women cheat on their husbands. I'm not ruling out that you may have found true love. I'm just saying that I find it highly suspect that she's truly into you as much as you're into her. This is just based on the facts that you have disclosed. So if you have information supporting that she would leave him for you, and you two will live happily ever after on some island, sure.

Well. Since she already has kids, maybe finding a woman that already has kids isn't such a bad thing. It's not my preference, but what am I going to do if I fall in love with a woman that already has kids?

If you really love her, just go for it. Fuck what anyone else thinks. Fuck the husband. Just do it. And if he tracks you down and kills you, whatever. You got some random dude's blessing from the internet (mine). And if it's just a "crush"-- I think a more suitable term would be "infatuation"-- who cares. You had fun. You live, you learn.

when in Rome. or c'est la vie. or some other weird cliche which I don't understand.

 

[HDINTP]

cool, happy I can help you sort out your thoughts/feelings;

here's a potential outsider view of your situation; although I am hoping you have found true love, I just highly doubt it. It seems like she is a married woman with kids who is unhappy with her relationship and using you to fulfill what she is not getting from her husband. Some women read romance books, some women cheat on their husbands. I'm not ruling out that you may have found true love. I'm just saying that I find it highly suspect that she's truly into you as much as you're into her. This is just based on the facts that you have disclosed. So if you have information supporting that she would leave him for you, and you two will live happily ever after on some island, sure.

Well. Since she already has kids, maybe finding a woman that already has kids isn't such a bad thing. It's not my preference, but what am I going to do if I fall in love with a woman that already has kids?

If you really love her, just go for it. Fuck what anyone else thinks. Fuck the husband. Just do it. And if he tracks you down and kills you, whatever. You got some random dude's blessing from the internet (mine). And if it's just a "crush"-- I think a more suitable term would be "infatuation"-- who cares. You had fun. You live, you learn.

when in Rome. or c'est la vie. or some other weird cliche which I don't understand.

I think she doesn't feel the same in fact i slightly doubt she even knows i love her not yet but since i can't get her out of my mind. I will at least tell her i like her if she takes it like i want to be with her and refuses me i can make it look like i just like her like a friend. I am probably going to send you private message... even tough what is wrong there when i am not gonna have sexual intercourse with her (at least for two more years). Now you probably know what i am talking about and maybe you think i am complete idiot. I on the other hand think you are able to understand me pretty well.

 

[HDINTP]

Sorry i din't notice something and still asking myself why? Me idiot... You already got message don't you? To be accurate you got two unfortunately...

 

[NinjaSurfer]

Be selfish
But fix the alcohol problem first
No girl in her right mind will date a drunk
Unless you seek to develop some kind of unhealthy codependent relationship...
Important decisions can't be made while you have alcohol addiction

 

[SpaceYeti]

well most people say "one in a million"

the means there are seven (7) million million (= 7 billion) people on earth, divided by two, divided by 1 million, so still roughly 3.5 million women spread across this earth who would be perfect for you, just gotta go find em I guess

7 billion =/= 7 million million
7 billion = 7 thousand million

There are 3.5 thousand people of the opposite sex whom are equal in the idiom-sayer's eyes.

 

[MissQuote]

And quite a few of them are children or elderly.

 

[HDINTP]

7 billion =/= 7 million million
7 billion = 7 thousand million

There are 3.5 thousand people of the opposite sex whom are equal in the idiom-sayer's eyes.

I didn't count it but this sound more true to me because when i did count this few months ago i got about 10,000 so...

 

[HDINTP]

And quite a few of them are children or elderly.

Is that why it is said not trying to find perfection?

 

[NinjaSurfer]

7 billion =/= 7 million million
7 billion = 7 thousand million

There are 3.5 thousand people of the opposite sex whom are equal in the idiom-sayer's eyes.

Oh shit
How did I make such a mistake
And nobody notice till now!?
Omg lulz now I am depressed
1. Bc my math is stoopit
2. Bc my odds of perfect match have also just drastically decreased

 

[MissQuote]

If she has children then her considerations are going to be on their welfare more than her husbands welfare.

I mean, if she does have feelings for you, she may reject them (reject you) anyway because once one is a mother they cannot be quite as selfish. She will be taking her children and what is best for them into consideration before she takes her own desires into consideration.

Think of it like this, if she reciprocates your love and wishes to be with you she does not just have her husbands heart she will worry about breaking in order to do so, she will be considering the hearts of her children and how leaving her husband will break their hearts. Even if her relationship is already failing she will be considering her children and what is best for them before she chooses to throw in the towel on her marriage. Assuming she is a reasonable and loving person, I mean.

Another thing to consider is that if you profess your love to her you may end up losing her friendship. She is married, if her marriage is healthy and happy she will be telling her husband that you told her you love her and he will not be okay with you being friends with her any longer because of your love for her. If it turns out she returns your love he will be even more Not Okay with the situation.

Which is really sort of stupid in a way. I do not understand how people can let their jealousy and insecurities rule them so much like that. But that is the way humans seem to be.

I've spent a lot of time in my life, and particularly in recent years, trying to understand just exactly what Love is. I have not figured it out yet completely. I think it is something uncontrollable but also a very definite decision.

Uncontrollable in the sense that it is brought on by nothing more than psychological triggers causing brain chemicals to go haywire but because of our self awareness instead of being able to just follow nature we are forced with focusing on what we are going to do now that we have gone crazy and definite decisions about what to do moving forward once it happens.

Something like the most selfish selfless thing that exists.

 

[NinjaSurfer]

don't shoplift the pootie

[FLV]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW95YIpC6Rw[/FLV]

 

[skip]

I want you to tell me what is your own definition of love as concept.

A feeling and behavior that arises over time from attraction, admiration and respect.