Phobos and aphobia

[Moser]

Alright then. Always feel anxious about a making a post but I'm seeking multiple views and opinions on the subject of fear and its opposite. Not courage, I find that inaccurate. Like night has day, eacn number has a negative that can negate it, so on so forth.

I have some theories but they are fairly untested and unrefined. I do not believe anti-fear can be regarded in say an animal, and yes human beings are still animal s to some degree, but is there something more to it than being scared shitless and reacting like a cornered beast?

So, if providing a definition of fear, what is its opposite? Discuss and discover(hooray for alliteration!).

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

I view it like this:

-1/0/1
fear/indifference/fearlessness

May not answer your question, but maybe add something to the discussion.
(-1 and 1 are interchangeable, depending on their usefulness in different situations)

 

[Moser]

Ah, so a certain level of fear is good in a context? That adds a dynamic I overlooked.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Providing a definition of fear? I apologise but I don't see one provided.

Spoiler

fear (fîr)n.1. a. A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.
b. A state or condition marked by this feeling: living in fear.

2. A feeling of disquiet or apprehension: a fear of looking foolish.
3. Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power.
4. A reason for dread or apprehension: Being alone is my greatest fear.

v. feared, fear·ing, fears
v.tr.1. To be afraid or frightened of.
2. To be uneasy or apprehensive about: feared the test results.
3. To be in awe of; revere.
4. To consider probable; expect: I fear you are wrong. I fear I have bad news for you.
5. Archaic To feel fear within (oneself).

v.intr.1. To be afraid.
2. To be uneasy or apprehensive.

Complementary to fear or not-fear, fear less is the opposite, or simply not the above.

Not to feel anxiety by imminence of danger
Not living in fear
Not to be strongly impressed by something
To be relaxed.

In the not-fear we see how it encompasses (a degree of) indifference and fearlessnes.

Animals have reactions that resemble fear, however they may lack a developed long term feeling of fear. I'm not an expert here.

We are animals after all. What we have is the ability to store and compare our experiences. Our brain connects some memories with fear and anxiety, others with different emotions.

What I see as a flaw or extension is that humans can be made to fear anything they understand. Worst of all they can be made to fear their loss, loss of something they hold dear. It is not wrong to be attached to many things, it is wrong not to be able to let go of those things when the time is due. Understanding of our mortality comes with fear, not in our safest and most joyous moments.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Untested and unrefined... *looks around for volunteers*

I disagree that fear's opposite can't be observed in animals, but for now...

Fear's opposite is contentedness. Because fear is a universal motivating force, and is akin to pain. What are we all ultimately afraid of? Pain.

A nice allegory for this is found in the concept of Asana. When finding a pose to assume for hours on end, in practice, one experiences pain, cramps, and fatigue regardless of the position that they choose. In order to overcome this pain (classic case of mind over body), one must realize that all positions are painful and that all motion is a feeble attempt to escape it. When one develops the will to endure through it, they develop a tolerance for it which frees them to devote mental energy elsewhere and find that without external stimuli, this energy doesn't have an immediate purpose. This is contentedness. Leisure.

Back to animals, there is more to it, in that humans have come up with a lot more ways to attempt to escape pain, but "anti-fear" is observable in other animals. It tends to be difficult to observe because it's seldom revealed in the presence of other life forms (things that I want to eat and things that want to eat me). The obvious example is domestication.

 

[Moser]

I was hoping each post would provide its own definition, as you did.

So is this relaxation present already in some things or people? Or does it need to be taught? Can it be taught? Would it have a curriculum? Is fearlessness, relaxation, an opposite reaction?

I will attempt a definition however. Fear is possession, I think.

 

[Moser]

Understanding of our mortality comes with fear, not in our safest and most joyous moments.

I like this idea.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I was hoping each post would provide its own definition, as you did.

So is this relaxation present already in some things or people? Or does it need to be taught? Can it be taught? Would it have a curriculum? Is fearlessness, relaxation, an opposite reaction?

I will attempt a definition however. Fear is possession, I think.

I think teaching/learning comes into play when we try to make sense of fear; try to rationalize it. A lot of "teaching" also stems from using fear to our advantage, sometimes to allay our own fear. We're creative little apes...

Possession is interesting. Expand plz.

 

[Moser]

I will make an attempt.

If fear stems from pain, or the threat of pain, then that pain would have to be inflicted on something we hold dear (possess). Being possessive of one's body, mind, others, and material things as well would therefore allow pain (fear) to arise from their loss. On how to rationalize letting go, well I'm still in the mud there. Ah, I think I understand relaxed to a degree now.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

So is this relaxation present already in some things or people?

Yes, relaxation is often viewed as contention, as THD provided. It is a lack of strong passions at the moment as well as being alright in the situation.

Very strong states of relaxation may pass unnoticed, as they don't induce high brain activity or reflections, these are the moments we don't desire.
In Eastern philosophies this is usually portrayed as abandoning the self, ego.

Or does it need to be taught?

It could be something you seek. A state of nirvana.
You don't need to know about fear or relaxation to experience it.
And if you didn't experience it you wouldn't probably learn what it means.

Can it be taught?

Yes it can be understood through the understanding of your self, world, passions and stillness. You do not necessarily require a teacher, however exploring nuances of passions and mental states might be interesting with someone knowlegable.

Would it have a curriculum?

Not a strict one. Your life is and at the same time isn't comparable to other beings.
It can be compared in the stages that we usually experience, childhood, adulthood, elderly age and death. It is rather dependent on you how far will you explore various fears and passions and how will you quench or feed them.

Is fearlessness, relaxation, an opposite reaction?

Strictly and logically, fearlessness would be, not to be in a state of fear.
Relaxation would be, by my example, not to be in a state of any strong passion/emotion. To be balanced and at the right moment.

I will attempt a definition however. Fear is possession, I think.

Strong feelings often posses your thoughts and may redirect them.

It may seem futile to attempt to clear yourself of every posession, as after this process there may be nothing to drive you onwards. It can be benefitial to explore what drives you and what you certainly don't want to be susceptible to.
Fear might be one of the negative drives.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I definitely agree that it can be inflicted. PTSD ftw.

I think possession is a means to differentiate the routes through which fear travels, but not necessarily its ultimate destination (the self, at the individual level; I'm not sure if it has an ultimate destination above the individual level ).

Very strong states of relaxation may pass unnoticed, as they don't induce high brain activity or reflections, these are the moments we don't desire.
In Eastern philosophies this is usually portrayed as abandoning the self, ego.

Hold on there, partner!

That's only one of many steps in ego loss. It's actually usually the first.

Strong feelings often posses your thoughts and may redirect them.

It may seem futile to attempt to clear yourself of every posession, as after this process there may be nothing to drive you onwards. It can be benefitial to explore what drives you and what you certainly don't want to be susceptible to.
Fear might be one of the negative drives.

It's not that there's nothing to drive you onwards, but that you're being driven in the direction opposite to the one in which you were previously moving. Or perhaps expanding as you continue to move forward, giving the impression of slowing down due to some sort of experiential "drag."

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Yes, I didn't attempt to list steps of ego-loss, it may vary from individual to another.

It's not that there's nothing to drive you onwards, but that you're being driven in the direction opposite to the one in which you were previously moving. Or perhaps expanding as you continue to move forward, giving the impression of slowing down due to some sort of experiential "drag."

I wonder what makes you move in any direction after you lack desire or preference.
Care to share your point?

 

[Moser]

I think that lacking desire or preference would be impossible. Technically wouldn't even desiring not to desire be in fact a desire(one more time, desire!)?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

It is possible not to feel any relevant thought, to have a free mind, it is achievable and usually doesn't last too long. At that moment all desires are lost.

 

[Huggogguh]

It is possible not to feel any relevant thought, to have a free mind, it is achievable and usually doesn't last too long. At that moment all desires are lost.

I think this is possible, if only for a short time, but some people would sully the event by actually 'desiring' to be in this state of 'desirelessness'. Which I don't believe is a real word.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Yes, I didn't attempt to list steps of ego-loss, it may vary from individual to another.

I wonder what makes you move in any direction after you lack desire or preference.
Care to share your point?

The classic division is Jnani/Bhakti.

What keeps you moving is your continually increasing scope of perception; like walking forward gazing at the horizon; a vacuum that needs filled.

I think that lacking desire or preference would be impossible. Technically wouldn't even desiring not to desire be in fact a desire(one more time, desire!)?

Desiring something indicates that you lack it. It's already there, it just needs to be discovered. Perception is not ownership. It just sort of happens.

It is possible not to feel any relevant thought, to have a free mind, it is achievable and usually doesn't last too long. At that moment all desires are lost.

I think this is possible, if only for a short time, but some people would sully the event by actually 'desiring' to be in this state of 'desirelessness'. Which I don't believe is a real word.

Meditation seriously extends the duration; letting unrecognizable things pop into your.... consciousness isn't the right word. Awareness?

 

[Moser]

Truly I invoked the minds of brilliant beings for my topic. My understanding of eastern philosophy is fairly limited, to put it mildly. Does one in a state of nirvana remove themselves from the world? Or are they present and moving in an altered, more peaceful state?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Truly I invoked the minds of brilliant beings for my topic. My understanding of eastern philosophy is fairly limited, to put it mildly. Does one in a state of nirvana remove themselves from the world? Or are they present and moving in an altered, more peaceful state?

Ingress?

Compliments scare me. I think it's less eastern and more anti-western; embracing what the West rejects and/or denies. So in other words maybe one is whole and the other... isn't. Consider that mental illness is largely defined by difference from cultural norms.

One can remove themselves from the world by becoming the world, through taking up other perspectives. We tend to see the world linearly. As in: me----->the world. The next step is usually the world---->me, but that doesn't really do much outside of a single feedback loop. The world---->the world is the real breakthrough, at least for me. There may well be a me---->me, but I can't conceive of it experientially, only theoretically.

Peaceful... It's really more of an oddly comforting hollow deadness for the most part, if you're dealing with external stimuli. If you're deep enough into meditation you can reach a hypnagogic state because the external world no longer commands the attention of your mental faculties.

Spoiler

Those states feel really, really good. Whole body orgasmic good.

 

[Moser]

Ingress?

Compliments scare me. I think it's less eastern and more anti-western; embracing what the West rejects and/or denies. So in other words maybe one is whole and the other... isn't. Consider that mental illness is largely defined by difference from cultural norms.

One can remove themselves from the world by becoming the world, through taking up other perspectives. We tend to see the world linearly. As in: me----->the world. The next step is usually the world---->me, but that doesn't really do much outside of a single feedback loop. The world---->the world is the real breakthrough, at least for me. There may well be a me---->me, but I can't conceive of it experientially, only theoretically.

Peaceful... It's really more of an oddly comforting hollow deadness for the most part, if you're dealing with external stimuli. If you're deep enough into meditation you can reach a hypnagogic state because the external world no longer commands the attention of your mental faculties.

Spoiler

Those states feel really, really good. Whole body orgasmic good.

My mind= BOOM! from this. And yet... (ha...ha...ha...)

The west has rejects a good deal, I will admit this. I sometimes wonder if there are some things that one should refuse to let go off. Is there an ultimate anchor to the physical world? Can we beat the human condition, the biological imperatives?

Hollow deadness, this fascinates me yet I am at odds with it. Death isn't too scary ultimately, it will happen or it won't, and eventually a man's clock runs out to zero. So then, while living, should one feel the need to live? Eudaimonia in a sense, I suppose.

For fear and its opposite then, nirvana doesn't quite work for me or those like me. It is necessary for me to admit that I have taken pleasure in yoga at times, like clearing my mind has allowed me to make sense of things when coming out of it. Is that your point(s)? This an individual pursuit though I will find myself guiding others hopefully down the path to aphobia and wish to learn how to be a good teacher at the least.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I probably should have elaborated, in that world---->world allows for piece of world #1---->me + piece #2---->me, etc., simultaneously. A whole new kind of connectivity. In being one with the world in this sense, you just sort of... do. The deadness is an artifact of not being attached to anything. No labels, just doing/being. The ultimate anchor is the present and existence. Ironically, through this mechanism, detachment from the human condition leads to the fulfillment of it. This is the purpose of aphobia, and it works a lot better if you know the purpose before you begin the journey.

Master Hyakujo decided to found a new monastery, but he had the difficult task of selecting from among his disciples the right person to be the new monastery’s abbot. Then he came upon a solution.

Hyakujo called all his disciples together and told them that the person who best answered his question would be named the new abbot. Hyakujo filled a vase with water and set it on the ground before the assembled monks. “Who can tell me what this is without naming it?” he challenged.

The senior disciple stepped forward and answered accurately, “No one can call it a wooden shoe.”

Then Isan, the lowly cook, stepped forward and knocked the vase over with his foot, and walked out of the room.

Master Hyakujo smiled and declared, “My senior disciple has been bested.” Isan the cook was named the new abbot.

Teaching this stuff is experiential. You've got to take them somewhere. Pour it into them. Pull out their essence like Marilyn Manson enacting the Tahitian Skeleton Pull of Death on Celebrity Deathmatch circa 1998, and thrust it to where it needs to go.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6BGwITuBr8

Spoiler

What just happened in this story?

One way to understand the meaning of this story is that the water represents Truth or the Dharma. The vase is the vessel that holds that truth, it is the teaching, it is the tradition.

That truth cannot be told, however. Sure, you can use simple words like “Truth” or “Reality,” or you can fill books with complex philosophical explanations. But ultimately those are all words and don’t truly convey what the Truth is. The “water” cannot be named. That is why Master Hyakujo gave this challenge to his disciples.

The lead disciple, clearly a cunning man, sees this as a test of his mental dexterity. If he cannot name the water-filled vessel, he will say what it is not, thus suggesting it by negation. But he has only negated one object in a world of infinite objects. A person can spend a lifetime listing all the things something is not, and never come to the point where only the unnamed thing remains. The lead disciple is trapped on the endless road of the intellect.

But the cook, Isan, understood the situation simply and clearly. He tipped the vase over, emptying the vessel and revealing the water. The truth cannot be told, it can only be shown.

What’s more, the truth cannot be held, it cannot be contained, it can only be poured out. The vase itself, the spiritual tradition, is empty and only has meaning as a vessel to transport the truth. By tipping over the vessel, he is suggesting that we must not worship the tradition itself. Religion, philosophy, spiritual tradition — these are not an end to themselves; they should be respected for their function as a delivery vehicle, but nothing more.

These are the insights that mark one for spiritual authority.

- See more at: http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/blo...ng-over-a-vase/#sthash.gw5FDxjw.ftDC8FcI.dpuf

(There's also always this tendency to find that someone else usually said whatever it is you're thinking 2000 years ago or so ).

It is necessary for me to admit that I have taken pleasure in yoga at times, like clearing my mind has allowed me to make sense of things when coming out of it. Is that your point(s)?

My point regarding this experience, then, is after you've become fully engrossed in meditation (to the point of losing track of time), it really starts to open up. It's like solving problems while you sleep.

 

[own8ge]

We live in an uncertain world. Only concept may be perceived and accounted for as certain, but ofcourse they are irreliable. If we were to agree, that indeed we live in a constant perception of uncertainty, one could judge it in dichotomial aspects. A judgment depentant on two factors. 1, worldview. And 2, mindset.

Fear originates in 2, mindset. Ergo, how perception is discerned. In other terms, how the constant flow of incertainty is being puzzled into pictures. If those pictures give a plausible indication of danger, which as it is based on uncertainty constantly is, it will arise insecurity. Fear, is when a person includes his worldview, a sense of being, in this insecurity. In other terms, fear is when a person desires to control the uncontrollable.

Here is a beautifull analogy I just thought of, a person that does a psychoactive drugs can end up in two different dichotomial states. 1, is going bad (to hell), the other is heaven. I.e. LSD. One could end up in a nightmare, or one could end up in an unforgetable and beautiful experience. The key to influence to which state you will end up in, is set and setting. Why? It will be of great importance in whether or not the subject will want to control his own mindset or not.

'Unfear' so to say, is when a person does not have any desire to control. Enlightenment is the right word to define that state of mind.

So to answer your question... The opposite of fear is enlightenment.

 

[Moser]

Thank you for your posts. O no a compliment! they have given me more to digest into one of my more consuming pursuits.