Sweet corruption

[Solitaire U.]

While driving yesterday I decided to make an illegal U-turn instead of taking the extra two minutes to circle the block. Of course, a traffic cop was waiting for me up the street and waved me over.

Once I stopped the cop informed me that I'd made an illegal U-turn (which I already knew) and asked to see my license and registration. I produced said documents and was informed that the cost of the infraction would be 1200 pesos. I told the cop that I only had 400 pesos on me, and would that be enough to simply pay for the infraction there and then rather than be written a ticket and have to go down to the transito office and pay later. The cop said 400 would be fine, handed me his little notebook (with a KISS logo on the cover), and told me to put the 400 pesos inside. I did so and returned the notebook to him. He returned my reg. and license to me and I went on my merry way.

Now, I know that the guy just pocketed the 400 pesos. Pure corruption.

But you know, in the United States this same situation would have been a major hassle to resolve. I'd be given a ticket, hefty fine (400 pesos is like 35 dollars), have to appear in court if I wanted to fight the ticket, have to go to traffic school to avoid having a point put on my license and my insurance rates go up, etc. etc. etc.

So, overarching question...is a little corruption better than a lot of law-abiding bureaucratic red tape in the above situation?

I really have to say that I appreciated being given the option of simply buying my way out of the hassle. Opinions?

 

[DeadonDreaming]

While driving yesterday I decided to make an illegal U-turn instead of taking the extra two minutes to circle the block. Of course, a traffic cop was waiting for me up the street and waved me over.

Once I stopped the cop informed me that I'd made an illegal U-turn (which I already knew) and asked to see my license and registration. I produced said documents and was informed that the cost of the infraction would be 1200 pesos. I told the cop that I only had 400 pesos on me, and would that be enough to simply pay for the infraction there and then rather than be written a ticket and have to go down to the transito office and pay later. The cop said 400 would be fine, handed me his little notebook (with a KISS logo on the cover), and told me to put the 400 pesos inside. I did so and returned the notebook to him. He returned my reg. and license to me and I went on my merry way.

Now, I know that the guy just pocketed the 400 pesos. Pure corruption.

But you know, in the United States this same situation would have been a major hassle to resolve. I'd be given a ticket, hefty fine (400 pesos is like 35 dollars), have to appear in court if I wanted to fight the ticket, have to go to traffic school to avoid having a point put on my license and my insurance rates go up, etc. etc. etc.

So, overarching question...is a little corruption better than a lot of law-abiding bureaucratic red tape in the above situation?

I really have to say that I appreciated being given the option of simply buying my way out of the hassle. Opinions?

I love Mexico for that reason, but sometimes it gets annoying. I had a beard, and a cop stopped me as I was going into the airport and said I looked like Osama Bin Laden. I gave him my ID, which proved I wasn't Arab, but he just kind of looked at me and said "Even if George Bush himself came down here, I couldn't let you in". I gave him some money, and then he looked at me sideways, then said "Now that I look at you, you're right, have a nice day". Bastard.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Yeah, I definitely had the same "bastard" thought about the transit cop, but that was really only a flash. After driving a couple blocks, I realized "Shit, I'm a few hundred pesos poorer but here I am on my way with my license in-pocket and nothing more to pursue in this matter ever."

But that was due to a legitimate fuck-up on my part. I mean, I knew I wasn't supposed to make a U-turn at that intersection because it's clearly posted. I was also aware that doing it was a risk because I've seen the traffic cops there pulling people over before, but I did it anyway.

Your case though seems more like a case of brash extortion. I don't like the idea of being hassled for something as benign as wearing a beard. Actually, I'm a bit surprised it happened to you at a Mexican airport. That's something I'd assumed would be far more likely to occur on the US side of the border (sans the bribe and with the addition of hours of windowless-room interrogation of course).

 

[Minuend]

Your case though seems more like a case of brash extortion

This is kinda the thing I would see happening more. Officers wanting a little extra cash in their pockets. Would decrease the overall trust of law enforcement and that might attract some unsuitable types to the profession. Snowball effect.

 

[DeadonDreaming]

Yeah, I definitely had the same "bastard" thought about the transit cop, but that was really only a flash. After driving a couple blocks, I realized "Shit, I'm a few hundred pesos poorer but here I am on my way with my license in-pocket and nothing more to pursue in this matter ever."

But that was due to a legitimate fuck-up on my part. I mean, I knew I wasn't supposed to make a U-turn at that intersection because it's clearly posted. I was also aware that doing it was a risk because I've seen the traffic cops there pulling people over before, but I did it anyway.

Your case though seems more like a case of brash extortion. I don't like the idea of being hassled for something as benign as wearing a beard. Actually, I'm a bit surprised it happened to you at a Mexican airport. That's something I'd assumed would be far more likely to occur on the US side of the border (sans the bribe and with the addition of hours of windowless-room interrogation of course).

I was going to the United States out of Guadalarja International. I was just wandering around, looking at airplanes, going through security, when he corned me in like a little hallway by ourselves when I wasn't paying attention. I was just like "God damn it, fuck it, heres the money" in my mind.

My beard was pretty epic though. All in all, I did look pretty Osama Bin Laden-esque. In my experience, cops just make up phony charges, walk up to you, and extort you. "Ah, I saw you dropped that piece of trash over there, I must fine you" "What trash?" "This trash!" *throws a piece of trash on the ground*.

I also heard they target Americans more, and since I was obviously not from Mexico (Supposedly wearing beards is highly uncommon; everyone wears mustaches or is clean shaven), and I was speaking English with the person I was coming back with.. they had me in their sights.

This is kinda the thing I would see happening more. Officers wanting a little extra cash in their pockets. Would decrease the overall trust of law enforcement and that might attract some unsuitable types to the profession. Snowball effect.

I heard you actually have to pay to become a police officer, since you make back the money through bribes.

The real money is in private security; the guys who guard the banks and shopping malls. They carry heavy artillery and get paid pretty well.

 

[Solitaire U.]

I also heard they target Americans more, and since I was obviously not from Mexico (Supposedly wearing beards is highly uncommon; everyone wears mustaches or is clean shaven), and I was speaking English with the person I was coming back with.. they had me in their sights.

My observations would indicate that you are correct...beards are very uncommon, at least in my area of Mexico. Long hair on males is also quite unusual. Sporting either, or both of these will definitely make you stand out in a crowd here.

RE: targeting Americans...the general philosophy here seems to be that all Americans, actually Caucasian foreigners of any nationality, are rich, and therefore open season to being 'gouged'. However, it's easy to circumvent this by a) being fluent in Spanish (foreigners who are fluent Spanish speakers generally garner a lot of interest and default respect from the locals), and b) being familiar with the local economy. The nice thing about Mexico's economy is that, excluding obvious exceptions like supermarkets and department stores, almost everything is negotiable. Even taxi fares can be questioned or renegotiated if the quoted price is above the norm. Or you can simply say "No Thanks" and flag down the next taxi.

*Edit* I'm told that the starting salary for transit cops is 59 pesos per hour (US $4.50). That's shit, even by Mexican standards. It's easy to understand and tolerate a little corruption when you're aware of how little these people earn.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Traffic laws exist to allow the highway system to function in an orderly and safe manner. When there is no accident, or danger of an accident there is no need to uphold them, in my opinion.


It's corruption to take bribes or have to pay them, but you shouldn't have to in the first place. As to your question, it can't be a universal truth to say yes, because not all situations are the same. Though, your situation was completely harmless.


I guess one issue is allowing a habitually reckless driver back on the road.

 

[Solitaire U.]

@EyeSeeCold

Hey, are you insinuating that I'm a reckless driver?

No, seriously though, in a country where you simply buy your drivers license with no written, driving or other test involved (not even a vision test) to verify that you can actually operate a motor vehicle reasonably safely, accusing people of reckless driving is kind of like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

My driving philosophy in this country...

"Good horn, good brakes, good luck."

 

[DeadonDreaming]

I find if they find out you're American, no matter how good your Spanish is, they try to gouge you. They usually pick up on it from your accent, your style of dress (long hair, beard, different shoes, etc), your mannerism, if you start speaking English, etc. The shopkeepers ears perk up, and they start mentally calculating how much they're going to overcharge you. The police officers start following you, waiting to see you do something suspicious so they can demand a bribe.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

@EyeSeeCold

Hey, are you insinuating that I'm a reckless driver?

No, seriously though, in a country where you simply buy your drivers license with no written, driving or other test involved (not even a vision test) to verify that you can actually operate a motor vehicle reasonably safely, accusing people of reckless driving is kind of like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

My driving philosophy in this country...

"Good horn, good brakes, good luck."

I don't know what it's like out there but I wouldn't say that means everyone is a bad driver, since most of it is just learned behavior. But the image that the U.S. projects is that it's a lawless, chaotic state full of drugs, gangs and guns. I don't think I've seen one portrayal of Mexico(even in the news) where people are doing normal everyday things.

 

[~~~]

Read up on the rule of law principle.

 

[Solitaire U.]

But the image that the U.S. projects is that it's a lawless, chaotic state full of drugs, gangs and guns. I don't think I've seen one portrayal of Mexico(even in the news) where people are doing normal everyday things.

Yeah, that's the same status-quo US propaganda I remember as well. It's all exaggerated bullshit though.

In reality, guns are both illegal and highly frowned upon, drugs (up to and including heroin) are legal to possess in 'personal use' quantities but highly illegal to traffic or possess in large quantities, and there are no gangs (or at least nothing comparable to what I witnessed in L.A.) or evidence of gangs that I've seen. There is a lot of graffiti in my city, but the majority of it is politically, as opposed to gang, motivated.

I remember L.A...suburbia, urbania, suburbia, urbania, Walmart after Home Depot after Blockbuster after Sam's Club after Best Buy...it's exactly the same here.

Ironically, Mexicans tend to view the US as a gun-toting, war-mongering, generally aggressive society in comparison to theirs. Even more ironic...I'm as yet unable to execute a successful counter argument. In other words, heh, they're mostly correct.