That Objective?

[Sugarpop]

Hypothesis 1: INTPs find satisfaction in proving others wrong.

Hypothesis 2: INTPs find dissatisfaction in others proving them wrong.

Hypothesis 3: The objectivity INTPs hold so dear is compromised by the above, if true.

Please evaluate.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Hypothesis 2 is true to the extent that it doesn’t conflict with hypothesis 1 and 3.

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Step 1 of Hypothesis A: INTP finds a 'truth' to their mind through their exploration of knowledge.
Step 2 of Hypothesis A: INTP classifies the above truth as 'correct' or 'incorrect' after an extensive analysis.
Step 3 of Hypothesis A: INTP continues search for accurate truths with their critical mind - following the subjective procedure of verification described above.
Step 4 of Hypothesis A: INTP analyzes all of the 'correct truths' they have stored and connect them appropriately - forming interesting links. New 'truths' are established through these connections, subsequently becoming open to the INTP's analysis.
Step 5 of Hypothesis A: INTP rigorously develop the new 'truth' with optimism that they have discovered an original one.
Step 6 of Hypothesis A: INTP presents their possible unique 'truth' to the world. It is accepted or dismissed, and the INTP resumes their path of successfully contributing to the world's knowledge.

 

[cheese]

3 does not necessarily follow from 1 and 3 I think. Dissatisfaction does not compromise objectivity just by virtue of its presence. It is an emotional response and does not necessarily affect their intellectual capabilities. This is dependent on the INTP's ability to separate emotion from judgement.

Qualify 1 and 2:
INTPs find contemptuous satisfaction in proving "incompetent" people wrong. If they respect your mind then their satisfaction at proving you wrong/dissatisfaction at being proved wrong is lessened and has the sting of disdain taken out of it. It often becomes pleasurable for both parties as the focus becomes a mutual search for truth rather than a dutiful suppression of idiocy. In such cases objectivity could be helped by the reinforced focus on objective, external truth.

 

[echoplex]

One might infer that #1 suggests that the INTP's motives for proving someone wrong are simply subjective, almost sadistic pleasure-seeking at the folly of someone else's logic, often placed above the objective search for truth.

One might also infer that #2 suggests that the INTP's motives for not wanting to be proven wrong are simply a form of ego-preservation, and not objective desire for truth.

However, one could also argue that #1 is the satisfaction one receives when the ideas they believe are objectively true are finally accepted, while #2 is simply a sense of disappointment at their own failure to use sound logic, much like the disappointment they may feel for others' bad logic.

Conclusion, it depends on the motives behind #1 and #2.

 

[cheese]

^Yes! That is what I was attempting to get at, but clearer.

 

[chocolate]

I don't understand Hypothesis 2. Why would someone be dissatisfied by something being proven? (right or wrong, yours or mine).

I need to understand Hypothesis 2 better...

 

[FacetiousPersona]

Hypothesis 1: INTPs find satisfaction in proving others wrong.

Hypothesis 2: INTPs find dissatisfaction in others proving them wrong.

Hypothesis 3: The objectivity INTPs hold so dear is compromised by the above, if true.

Please evaluate.

Oh, and I decided to read your message and here was my first thought:

Hypothesis #1 - INTP: "This is wrong in your statement."

Hypothesis #2 - Subject of Criticism: "This is wrong in your criticism, thus invalidating your initial criticism. Your reasoning and objectivity are perhaps questionable as a result."

Hypothesis #3 is introduced at the end of Hypothesis #2, which is a natural consequence of the INTP being wrong. However, it depends on how the INTP is wrong, I think.

 

[Sugarpop]

I will attempt to reword now that I've had a good night's sleep:

H1: INTPs enjoy being right. This is often done by proving that others are not.

H2: INTPs dislike being wrong. They will get pissy if you tell them that what they see as truth is not truth, even if you're right.

H3: INTPs tend to seek what they enjoy and tend to avoid what they dislike. This may cause bigotry.

I'm not saying this only or especially applies to INTPs - I'm saying that it applies to us as well.

These hypotheses partially stem from observations I have made in threads such as 'Viewpoint on God'.

 

[Thaklaar]

I'd still argue against H2, at least for me. I dislike being wrong, this is true. But I appreciate being informed of my genuine errors as this makes me less wrong in the future. I only get het up when someone insists that I am wrong when I am definitely and objectively right. Perhaps this statement is true for less developed INTPs. It fits more with my viewpoint as a teenager than it does now.

 

[Sugarpop]

I'd still argue against H2, at least for me. I dislike being wrong, this is true. But I appreciate being informed of my genuine errors as this makes me less wrong in the future. I only get het up when someone insists that I am wrong when I am definitely and objectively right. Perhaps this statement is true for less developed INTPs. It fits more with my viewpoint as a teenager than it does now.

I think the problem appear when opinion and competence become too closely associated. Aren't INTPs often sensitive about competence?

There will also be instances of the INTP perceiving hirself to be "definitely and objectively right", even though this might turn out to be false. How readily do we shift our own paradigms?

 

[Ermine]

Hypothesis 1: INTPs find satisfaction in proving others wrong.

Hypothesis 2: INTPs find dissatisfaction in others proving them wrong.

Hypothesis 3: The objectivity INTPs hold so dear is compromised by the above, if true.

Please evaluate.

It all depends on the degree of satisfaction, dissatisfaction, and objectivity. They are different for every INTP, and it's hard to make any headway on such a diverse category.

I also think we can agree that no human is capable of being purely objective, and that people like to be right.

 

[Thaklaar]

I think the problem appear when opinion and competence become too closely associated. Aren't INTPs often sensitive about competence?

There will also be instances of the INTP perceiving hirself to be "definitely and objectively right", even though this might turn out to be false. How readily do we shift our own paradigms?

Certainly part of it, for me (and I can only talk about me), is that there are a whole lot fewer things now that I am convinced are objectively true than there were ten or fifteen years ago. I'm approaching the point where I'm "wise enough to know how foolish I am" to quote old Socrates.

And you're right. I certainly do get my back up when my competence is questioned (though I question whether that's a specifically INTP thing.) And, as my core competence seems to be the general acquisition and retention of knowledge, it's easy to conflate questioning my facts with questioning my competence. I've just come to recognize that I'm too much a dilettante for there not to exist superior knowledge to my own in pretty much any subject.