the INTP choice

[DarkLink]

I should really get more involved in the forum, but being my lazy ass, easily distracted self I just can be poopered., part from now..

Anyway,
I was just having a thought-

I think that I could be all the personality types IF I WANTED, (maybe thats just INTP stubbornness coming out) but I choose not to be, in fact what I 'choose' to be is an INTP.

We are especially good at putting relentless (often obsessive) focus into something of interest which is why I feel like I can embody all the types. (if focus was there)
I feel so aware of all the things I should be doing right now, (with focus) like buying brothers birthday present , or focusing on my uni work, or pumping up the bike tyre, or cleaning the dishes or being an ESTJ... that I put myself off doing every single one of those things. This stuff is for boring people and surely the last thing any wants is to be boring
(just realized this is typical over analysis)
Knowing that everyone else is busy being traditional and stuff is what makes me who I am. I just want to sit here and think the unthought of, discover what is yet to be discovered and put myself through rigorous self improvement along the way wether physical/mental/linguistic etc etc....why else be alive? does no one else question his/her own societal function? or is it just us? once questioned, the answer would seem INTP.
Then again, only an INTP or something similar would bother with this...fuckthisshit

 

[Steven Gerrard]

I often felt guilt for not making art, video games, writting books and inventing machines I can imagine. Oh and I want to make an anime.

I find it helpful to decide what is my duty and to do it, and to have everything else not considered as something I "have to do".

I'm just learning this, but for me really my only duty's are to get to mass on Sunday and receive Jesus in Communion. As steps to achieve this I pray when I wake up and before I go to sleep. Also to listen to what my parents directly tell me to do- I don't have to agree with them or try to hard to please them, but I must do what they tell me- as per Jesus instructed.

In the second degree I have obligations I made to other people- jobs I said I'd do, contracts I've signed and stuff.

As a severe introvert the neccesity's of life take up so much of my energy- job, work, mass, extended family.

So I try not to make any other commitment's beyond that if possible as I like to have time to go to the library, wander around, smoke cigarettes, and ideally actually do the things like writting music, making anime, inventing.

I might never do any of this ^ but that's okay. It's more peaceful to think that way.
Also Jesus's imperative to give it all up and follow him actually helps me to just try and do things like hold down a job and be polite that other types of people might do with less time and energy.

anyway. Consider deciding what is your duty and it will free up alot of time and energy for everything else I think.

 

[Anktark]

DarkLink, you might have worded your thought incorrectly and we are on the same page, but my take on this is different:

Sure, we could analyze any other type, find patterns and then act like them. Actually, we often do for short periods of time when we are socializing- we tend to act the way the other person does, especially if it's a one on one event. So technically, with enough willpower INTP could act and look like... ESFJ. It would be a heavy and painful mask to wear, but you could do it.
However, under that facade you would be drained, unhappy INTP; constantly analyzing all input and thinking "Oh god, why me?!" and "What would ESFJ do?". But I don't think you would be energized by constant socializing and being part of crowds and upholding traditions, laws and all that march. Following that, I conclude that being INTP is not a choice, but a result of prior choices by us and those around us.
Now, I do think being INTP is pretty darn great (but I am probably biased) and feel like I won the lottery in that regard (if I am actually an INTP and not some attention deprived chameleon type who subconsciously messes up test answers).
Another thing, boredom is a rather subjective term. ESTJ and/or ESFJ would probably see INTP as boring. No, scratch that, if I understand them even a little, they definitely think we are boring. And it amuses me (then again, I might be retarded).

 

[DarkLink]

DarkLink, you might have worded your thought incorrectly and we are on the same page, but my take on this is different:

Sure, we could analyze any other type, find patterns and then act like them. Actually, we often do for short periods of time when we are socializing- we tend to act the way the other person does, especially if it's a one on one event. So technically, with enough willpower INTP could act and look like... ESFJ. It would be a heavy and painful mask to wear, but you could do it.
However, under that facade you would be drained, unhappy INTP; constantly analyzing all input and thinking "Oh god, why me?!" and "What would ESFJ do?". But I don't think you would be energized by constant socializing and being part of crowds and upholding traditions, laws and all that march. Following that, I conclude that being INTP is not a choice, but a result of prior choices by us and those around us.
Now, I do think being INTP is pretty darn great (but I am probably biased) and feel like I won the lottery in that regard (if I am actually an INTP and not some attention deprived chameleon type who subconsciously messes up test answers).
Another thing, boredom is a rather subjective term. ESTJ and/or ESFJ would probably see INTP as boring. No, scratch that, if I understand them even a little, they definitely think we are boring. And it amuses me (then again, I might be retarded).

Yes, well you found that thought I couldn't quite get.
We could do it all, but it would all be fake and rubbish and mentally draining, a facade as you said- very very true.
Also true, boredom is subjective and that is why the INTP is endowed well, we have the ability to find everyday things, details, parties and the whole lot fairly monotonous and pointless so we can concentrate on the more important theory of it all. While everyone sits there and asks 'omg, why did you eat your fries like that' we're asking 'what social superiority and traditional bias do you have to pejoratively assume that someone is eating their fries in the wrong way'
Just by thinking that, I feel great about myself,
I think the good thing about us is that in that moment we also have the choice to 'play' along in that facade, we could say 'omg yarrrr like soo omg, like fries like that? like omg!' (but it would definitly come across sarcastically)

 

[DarkLink]

I often felt guilt for not making art, video games, writting books and inventing machines I can imagine. Oh and I want to make an anime.

I find it helpful to decide what is my duty and to do it, and to have everything else not considered as something I "have to do".

I'm just learning this, but for me really my only duty's are to get to mass on Sunday and receive Jesus in Communion. As steps to achieve this I pray when I wake up and before I go to sleep.

It is interesting to meet a religious INTP.

I would like to ask you a lot of questions based on how your theoretical rational mind handles it all?
Too many to write down, but they mostly just ask Why and How?

 

[Steven Gerrard]

Dig man.

I'm pretty tired right now.

I wrote something tonight I'll PM it to you.

It might not answer your questions but if you have some more specific ones PM me.

 

[Architect]

It is interesting to meet a religious INTP.

If he is one. Curious that the most anti-religious of the types would be so devoutly religious. Kind of like finding a recluse ESFP. Never happens - by definition. The psychic energy can't get fed. An ISXX is much more likely, one with an intuition inferior.

 

[DarkLink]

If he is one. Curious that the most anti-religious of the types would be so devoutly religious.

I just cant understand how an objective mind (such as the INTP) would allow any scope for religion at all. Maybe a slight belief in God, but surely not religion with its obviously human rooted creation. Its just far too flawed in logic for any rational mind to follow it with any sense of passion- it dont make no sense!

 

[Anktark]

Here is my insight on religion and INTP:

I was religious (Catholic) till about 6-8 years old. Then I started finding inconsistencies that I could not explain and they just did not fit into my unified model of the multiverse. So, I classified Catholicism under path: 'Myths, legends and conspiracies/Religions of the world/Western Religions/Chistianity' and no longer considered it having a direct impact when trying to find how systems work and are made.
Nevertheless, before my 'enlightenment' I was quite sure that god had a say in everything and created it and is awesome through the roof. I was very thankful to god for creating me and to Jesus dieing for my sins. Not being sarcastic here.
Likewise, INTP could have not yet found the inconsistencies I saw. Or maybe s/he did and could explain/rationalize them and fit into his/her model of the multiverse. Possibly, atheists are the ignorant ones.
It's all a matter of perspective. I could say I am thousands of years old. Granted, I would be thinking in years of a planet that revolves around it's star faster than Earth. But still, it's a valid and rational point from that perspective and if I were to build my model of the multiverse around it, it would fit. You guys using Earth years would think I am a lunatic until we agreed on a common time measurement unit.

 

[DarkLink]

Here is my insight on religion and INTP:

I was religious (Catholic) till about 6-8 years old. Then I started finding inconsistencies that I could not explain and they just did not fit into my unified model of the multiverse. So, I classified Catholicism under path: 'Myths, legends and conspiracies/Religions of the world/Western Religions/Chistianity' and no longer considered it having a direct impact when trying to find how systems work and are made.
Nevertheless, before my 'enlightenment' I was quite sure that god had a say in everything and created it and is awesome through the roof. I was very thankful to god for creating me and to Jesus dieing for my sins. Not being sarcastic here.
Likewise, INTP could have not yet found the inconsistencies I saw. Or maybe s/he did and could explain/rationalize them and fit into his/her model of the multiverse. Possibly, atheists are the ignorant ones.
It's all a matter of perspective. I could say I am thousands of years old. Granted, I would be thinking in years of a planet that revolves around it's star faster than Earth. But still, it's a valid and rational point from that perspective and if I were to build my model of the multiverse around it, it would fit. You guys using Earth years would think I am a lunatic until we agreed on a common time measurement unit.

First of all, congratulations on the enlightenment! I can imagine it would have been quite a shock.
Anyone who claims that there is 100% no god is ignorant, because one cannot. I will say there is 99.9999% chance there is no god but not that he doesnt exist. You cannot disprove something that doesnt exist! (I believe just as much as the fairies in my backgarden as I do in god)
I honestly wish everyone could realize religions achingly poisonous effect on society- its slowing us down goddamit!
whats worse is when religion discourages scientific endeavor because it conflicts with their 2000 year old book!

Interesting that you use multiverse and not universe when referring to everything.
To me, without a god- the multiverse is a certainty (99.9999%), you just have to follow the logic of the anthropic principle.

 

[Anktark]

First of all, congratulations on the enlightenment! I can imagine it would have been quite a shock.
Anyone who claims that there is 100% no god is ignorant, because one cannot. I will say there is 99.9999% chance there is no god but not that he doesnt exist. You cannot disprove something that doesnt exist! (I believe just as much as the fairies in my backgarden as I do in god)
I honestly wish everyone could realize religions achingly poisonous effect on society- its slowing us down goddamit!
whats worse is when religion discourages scientific endeavor because it conflicts with their 2000 year old book!

Interesting that you use multiverse and not universe when referring to everything.
To me, without a god- the multiverse is a certainty (99.9999%), you just have to follow the logic of the anthropic principle.

Oh, the 'enlightenment' was a somewhat gradual and happy event. The actual shock came when I realized that people closest to me won't believe me and they might be saddened if I were to run in and happily proclaim "There is no god and I probably have no soul! Isn't that great news!? I figured it out myself!". For all I knew, they might have tried to exorcise demons out of me.
That aside, I seem to have overwhelming and nearly unshakable faith. Just that my faith is in logic- belief that future will be similar to the past.
I wholeheartedly agree that religion as it is does slow down humanity. After discovering MBTI I am under impression that not everyone is hell bent on analyzing and understanding their world and would just rather have a simple answer or no rational answer at all even. That doesn't mean we ought to persecute religious people and burn them at a stake (such an opportunity for poetic injustice though! )- live and let live. My only conflict with religion comes from that fact that they don't quite let us live freely.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I just cant understand how an objective mind (such as the INTP) would allow any scope for religion at all. Maybe a slight belief in God, but surely not religion with its obviously human rooted creation. Its just far too flawed in logic for any rational mind to follow it with any sense of passion- it dont make no sense!

Yeah and what does make sense. No belief no ideology no nothing? People need to grab on something. And yeah they grab on something that is nice and very human. Human errors in process of making religion is the same thing as programming software and making it all sloppy. Sure its not the best people can do, but hey, thats what we have.

 

[DarkLink]

Yeah and what does make sense. No belief no ideology no nothing? People need to grab on something. And yeah they grab on something that is nice and very human. Human errors in process of making religion is the same thing as programming software and making it all sloppy. Sure its not the best people can do, but hey, thats what we have.

Yes, but also no!
Religion would have used to have been a sort of speculative science, you know 3000 + years ago. People gazing at the stars and imagining different logical ways in which they were created. But centuries of falsification and extinction of most of these 'ideas' due to the development of real hard science and society collapse, (look at the greeks/romans) has exposed how historically religion is quite literally a product of the human mind and not some timeless set of definite moral laws inherent in the universe.
I do not think its OK to say 'thats what we have'. It isnt what we have, what we really have is real scientific proof that 'does not gel' at all with any one single religion ever.
Personally, I cant understand how someone could be satisfied with it or derive any remote sense of stability out of it when they know of all its logical flaws.
If they do not know, and need to be taught, that is a different story!

 

[the hungry kid]

Yes, well you found that thought I couldn't quite get.
We could do it all, but it would all be fake and rubbish and mentally draining, a facade as you said- very very true.
Also true, boredom is subjective and that is why the INTP is endowed well, we have the ability to find everyday things, details, parties and the whole lot fairly monotonous and pointless so we can concentrate on the more important theory of it all. While everyone sits there and asks 'omg, why did you eat your fries like that' we're asking 'what social superiority and traditional bias do you have to pejoratively assume that someone is eating their fries in the wrong way'
Just by thinking that, I feel great about myself,
I think the good thing about us is that in that moment we also have the choice to 'play' along in that facade, we could say 'omg yarrrr like soo omg, like fries like that? like omg!' (but it would definitly come across sarcastically)

Hmm.. I agree that such a pretence will be mentally draining and it will be just a facade. Very true. But what if an INTP starts enjoying it? I think it is unlikely in the long run but possible for short periods of time. Will it be safe to say he will be very good at pretending to be any other personality type? He will be on top of social situations while understanding and being the other personality type? Will this pretentious behaviour be a lethal tool if coupled with his manipulative tendencies and intelligence?

And will it be ever possible to point out such an undercover INTP?

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