Your Clone?

[Kuu]

Point is, your own carbon copy of yourself would totally know how to play with your body. Seriously. I mean, just think about it... Someone who INSTINCTIVELY knows how to handle your body ? Who's able to tweak every little curve and all the senses in you ?

That just sounds too awesome.

I was of the same opinion as bananaphallus... but now that you put it that way....

Although i'd still rather my "clone" be the opposite sex. Would be more fun.

 

[bananaphallus]

Point is, your own carbon copy of yourself would totally know how to play with your body. Seriously. I mean, just think about it... Someone who INSTINCTIVELY knows how to handle your body ? Who's able to tweak every little curve and all the senses in you ?

That just sounds too awesome.

That's an excellent point, if I could somehow get the past the fact that I was banging a guy, it would be wild crazypants sextime 24/7.

WHAT AM I SAYING!?

Although I think the original post implied a sort of 'mental congruity,' not necessarily physical, so couldn't your equal in this regard be a member of the opposite sex? I don't know...

 

[JUN]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OppositeSexClone

EVERYONE, REJOICE. Enjoy your opposite sex clone. Ok, minus the girls. But that's fine, we can use strap-ons and it's not like girls are awkward towards lesbianism.

 

[Kuu]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OppositeSexClone

EVERYONE, REJOICE. Enjoy your opposite sex clone. Ok, minus the girls. But that's fine, we can use strap-ons and it's not like girls are awkward towards lesbianism.

"Biologically, this is somewhat plausible for male-to-female cloning, because a male has an X-chromosome that can be doubled to produce a female clone"


I was sorta depressed about the future, but you have just infused my life with new hopes and goals.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

"Biologically, this is somewhat plausible for male-to-female cloning, because a male has an X-chromosome that can be doubled to produce a female clone"

Y-chromosome, is it somehow special, or just parasitic?

I was sorta depressed about the future, but you have just infused my life with new hopes and goals.

Kuu, you scare me, that's not easy to do.

But that's fine, we can use strap-ons and it's not like girls are awkward towards lesbianism.

TRANSHUMANISM! (strap-ons)
Adaire's gonna kill me now.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Anybody who masturbates is basically getting a hand job from themselves, so how would banging yourself be any different?

What if the clone was a 12 year old version of yourself, would it be wrong to molest yourself?

I don't think I could bang myself, because I would probably somehow get into an argument with myself - probably about who is going to be on top. I mean, I wouldn't consider myself as much of a top, but probably more of a power bottom, because I tend to do my best work from the bottom up. And I just can't see myself agreeing with myself on this, because neither of us would opt to take the top!

 

[JUN]

Good point... I feel troubled now.
Would I be a top to myself ? Urgh.
A bottom to myself ? God.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I don't think I could bang myself, because I would probably somehow get into an argument with myself - probably about who is going to be on top. I mean, I wouldn't consider myself as much of a top, but probably more of a power bottom, because I tend to do my best work from the bottom up. And I just can't see myself agreeing with myself on this, because neither of us would opt to take the top!

*tries to mentally picture all the different people from across the world and different age groups participating in this thread, standing in the same room, talking openly & shamelessly about the topics being covered here*

Anybody who masturbates is basically getting a hand job from themselves, so how would banging yourself be any different?

Well I've wondered how women delegate hand usage during masturbation, do they have a favoured boob or something? Or don't women play with their own boobs?

What if the clone was a 12 year old version of yourself, would it be wrong to molest yourself?

Yes, because it isn't "your" body, just a copy.
However if by "yourself" you mean literally your past-self...

 

[cheese]

Yes, because it isn't "your" body, just a copy.
However if by "yourself" you mean literally your past-self...

How wouldn't it be? The possibility of psychological damage still exists. It just happens to be extra dumb because you're doing it to yourself.

*edit
Working on the basis that doing it to a random 12 year-old is wrong.

 

[INTPINFP]

Use him as a gunie pig. See what he fails at, that way I won't fail the same way.

 

[INTPINFP]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

Hm. If you are too similar to a person, there is too much unity, too much peace. In order for a person to make something of a relationship, there must be something to upset it, on occasion- a decision is only made when there is a problem. It is inevitable that conflict should emerge- it is necessary.

Not only that, but if the person is the exact clone of you, would they not react in the same exact way as you? You would be like mirror images, each doing the same thing as the other... It would be an odd concept, I think. A paradox, perhaps. But this seems to be going along the idea of determinism.

Entertaining a possibility of this happening with some differences between yourself and the clone, I would imagine that a person would find it to be a marvel at such similarities in another individual. This would take some time to pass. After it passes, I suppose it would depend on the individual. Some may grow quickly bored, others may always be in wonder of this paradox.

No because unless the environment was perfectly symetrical the stimuli would be different.

 

[Cavallier]

Well I've wondered how women delegate hand usage during masturbation, do they have a favoured boob or something? Or don't women play with their own boobs?

That's bait if I've ever seen it....*will not answer!*

I think it would be really cool if everybody could talk about this stuff openly. Maybe we wouldn't be killing each other so much...then again...


I think that if I ran into myself (as in my past self a couple of years ago in order to avoid all those sticky moral quandaries involving child molestation) I would probably ask myself politely if I'd be willing to participate in sexual activities and see if I would agree to it. I mean, just because it's me doesn't mean I shouldn't respect my copy's personal rights. Especially since it's me!

 

[INTPINFP]

Re: Auburn's 500th Post!

I thought about it... yes, we all filter our perceptions. Subjectivity is ultimately inescapable, but we try for greater and greater objectivity...

still, this situation isn't quite like looking in a mirror and being confronted with what we expect to see... the other person isn't a physical clone, just a mental doppelganger? Wouldn't this help to shake up some of our entrenched self-perceptions? Something we hate in ourselves may not seem so despicable in the other, or a trait we were proud of may appear as evidence of vanity...

I think the situation would be fresh enough to give a renewed (changed) subjectivity... maybe that's a better term than objectivity in this case.

Yes I completely agree. If there was a real clone of myself, not just a mirror image, but a thinking, acting, PERSON... I think I could learn so much about myself, and improve upon so many things that a mirror simply could not provide.

 

[Agent Intellect]

The problem is, I just don't find myself all that attractive. If I were gay, I'd have standards much higher then myself. I don't know if I could bang myself just for the novelty of banging myself. I'd have to take myself out to dinner and show myself some respect first - I'm not just going to give it away on the first date!

 

[Ogion]

Yea, i doubt i'd be doing it with my clone either. I just don't think i'm gay and wouldn't be gay just for myself. (This is of course because i'm male, were i female this would look differently... :P)

But i think it would be awesome nonetheless and we could learn a lot from ourselves.

Ogion

 

[Chimera]

Sex is extremely low on my list of priorities; I doubt encountering my clone would change that.
Just had to put that out there.

Anyway, my answer has changed since my first post here. I currently have some pretty intense loathing for myself, so I'm wondering...if someone else had my characteristics, would I hate them too? But that wouldn't make sense, since I readily forgive anyone else's faults and only criticize my own. Which really doesn't make sense because I should be criticizing the faults themselves, but instead I'm basically criticizing my possesion of them... And I'm sadly only human, and therefore must be flawed. Except, what would be the "perfect" human? Aren't flaws all about perception, and isn't all human perception skewed?


Uhhm...clones. Right. Basically...I don't know. I hate myself, but I'm unable to hate other people.
But I'm a person too, aren't I? It makes no sense to hate only yourself. The standards you set for other people (not blaming them for their actions because they are what their lives have forced them to be) should be imposed on yourself as well---
I'm soooo tired of that internal argument, I'm stopping here. ​

 

[Agent Intellect]

Would it be schadenfreude if I wanted to see my clone enduring mental anguish and physical harm? I could give them every bit of pain I think I deserve!

 

[Artifice Orisit]

That's bait if I've ever seen it....*will not answer!*

lol

You could simply answer: To the former yes/no, to the latter yes/no.
I wasn't asking for a reveal-all story.

Heck, while we're playing this game, anyone who has an embarrassing question for me, go ahead and ask it, I've got nothing to be ashamed of

How wouldn't it be? The possibility of psychological damage still exists. It just happens to be extra dumb because you're doing it to yourself.

Well that's like saying suicide is immoral... is it?
Does morality extend to how one treats oneself?

I hate myself, but I'm unable to hate other people.
But I'm a person too, aren't I? It makes no sense to hate only yourself. The standards you set for other people (not blaming them for their actions because they are what their lives have forced them to be) should be imposed on yourself as well---
I'm soooo tired of that internal argument, I'm stopping here.

You blame yourself because you believe you don't have the right to blame others, thus you hate yourself when you're prompted to hate others, you hate yourself for hating them.
All this really means is that you're a good person in a bad world.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

At first I thought I would get along great with my clone; we'd be a terrifying and unstoppable duo.


However imagine yourself as the clone. Suddenly there is some person claiming to be the original 'you.' In this scenario they both have the same set of memories, so the clone itself would feel like the original. Both of us would be suspicious the other engineered the whole scenario for some diabolical purpose. Eventually it would devolve into a 'There can be only one!' conflict. Either we'd kill each other or one of us would win and then drive them-self insane with a constant identity crisis; wondering whether or not they were the real original.


If it was impossible to discern who the original was, then we'd probably team up as I said before. Though we'd update on eachother's experiences, or the 'clone magic' would be lost once we became two different people. It be like living two lives at once. Neat.


I don't know if I'd have an amorous relationship with myself (assuming we didn't kill each other). It seems like cheating somehow. However you couldn't really have a normal relationship after that either. Say you fall in love with some, then you know your clone is probably in love with that person too, and they can perfectly impersonate you. Though why would you deny your other self what you yourself want; just out of jealousy? It makes no sense to be jealous of yourself. So when it comes to a set of clones and romance, you either end up with twincest or a ménage à trois.


Though that brings up yet another question, what would it be like to be like for other people (friends, lovers, family) to suddenly have to deal with a set of clones where there was once an individual?

 

[echoplex]

Oh, so we're talking about having sex with our clone? No, I don't think so. If I wasn't any good, I'd have to live with it for the rest of my life -- knowing just how much I suck in bed.

The question is, which "I" is "me"? If one sucks, does that mean they both do? What if one was better at it? Might the better one feel a responsibility to help the other one improve to bolster the collective "I"? Would one dump themselves if things don't work out well? And if things don't work out well, what does that say about how self-aware "I" am?

Moreover, why am I asking all of these questions? Am I really that horny? *forces self to think about other topics* *fails*

Dammit. I never thought I'd say this, but we need another god thread to get my mind out of the gutter. Blob!

(kidding )

 

[Adymus]

While that would be fun as fuck, would that really help me grow? I mean, if I am with a person who think exactly like me, and who is sharing the exact same points of view as I am, then that is no better than hanging out with a yes man. The only way that would be interesting is if this clone eventually took separate views that he could share.

Or I could just hang out with people who are not me.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Well it gives you a chance to see yourself from an outside perspective.

 

[Adymus]

Well it gives you a chance to see yourself from an outside perspective.

This is very true, but I think that would be the only productive purpose.

 

[cheese]

Well that's like saying suicide is immoral... is it?
Does morality extend to how one treats oneself?

It's not as simple as that.

1. Pedophilia hinges specifically on the age of the person, and especially on how that impacts on their ability to make 'good' decisions.

2. Suicide is not the same as murder. Consent is the difference. * Since any consent in this particular case will presumably be undermined by their age (based on your response to molestation of other children), it is also wrong.

The main thing is, you and your younger self are not equally developed psychologically, which is the issue. In suicide, you are one with yourself. In this case, you are not.

I think the your question is interesting, but relates more to harming oneself at a particular point in time. I'm not even sure my 12 year-old self and myself now can legitimately be claimed to be the same person. I'm not even sure if personhood or morality are truly valid concepts (or what that even means ). But based on your original pronouncement, it would be wrong in this instance as well.

*leads inevitably to euthanasia. Er, I'll leave that for now.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Well obviously pedophilia is just plain wrong, there's no arguing that, what I want to know about is the right to make changes to one's own history, i.e. would it be immoral to go back in time and change your childhood in some way, for (a stupid) example what if the Joker went back in time to kill his parents so that his present day self would have the badass die-hard motivation that Batman has.

I know the whole argument is moot on account of time travel being more of a phase shift into another dimension of alternative possibility than literally winding back events like the hands on a clock, but it's still fascinating.

 

[cheese]

If pedophilia is plain wrong, I assume murder is as well.

History-changing not involving immoral acts - yeah, why not? Because it sort of kills off your original self?

Thread?

 

[Adymus]

Can we really conclude that anything is "just plain wrong?"

 

[sotired34]

We would talk to ourselves, but not to each other.

 

[cheese]

Can we really conclude that anything is "just plain wrong?"

Plainly.

*edit
Ok. No more derailing from me.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Can we really conclude that anything is "just plain wrong?"

Wrong on many levels, for many different reasons.

I'm not waving my torch/pitchfork, yelling "Kill all Pedos!".
It just seems like an indefensible position.

Theoretically someone could rationalize it via hedonism, whilst using absurdism and other existential arguments to deny any morality based arguments used against them, but who's going to fight that battle?

 

[Adymus]

Wrong on many levels, for many different reasons.

I'm not waving my torch/pitchfork, yelling "Kill all Pedos!".
It just seems like an indefensible position.

Theoretically someone could rationalize it via hedonism, whilst using absurdism and other existential arguments to deny any morality based arguments used against them, but who's going to fight that battle?

Pedophiles.




Also: How am I wrong for asking a question?

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I've met a few people exceptionally similar to me (both genders). It was unusual. Conversations are very fun. I think it is useful to have an element of difference though. I haven't met anyone exactly like me, although perhaps I simply haven't noticed (different masks and so on).

Have they also been INTPs? (Maybe a dumb question... but an obvious one to check.)

Use him as a gunie pig. See what he fails at, that way I won't fail the same way.

lol... man, that seems like it could be recursive & bad. What if your clone was using you as a guinea pig to see when he could make you do terrible immoral war-crime-esque things? To see where your "dehumanity" breaking point was? (I guess I just immediately thought of torture when you posted this.)

I think my clone and I would do okay. It might be good, I could have someone to answer to for getting work done- so individual work would become teamwork, and for all my projects it'd be easier. Because I'd have someone to answer to and someone who I was expecting work done from too.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Also: How am I wrong for asking a question?

Pedophilia is wrong, on many levels, for many different reasons.
Your question was completely valid.

 

[cheese]

Have they also been INTPs? (Maybe a dumb question... but an obvious one to check.)

They've all been slightly indeterminate, like me. Only a little. Usually there's a general INxP sense about them.

 

[transformers]

Freak out and punch them.

When they came to, I'd apologize and ask them all about their life.

 

[AmitaF]

I'll probably avoid direct contact with my clone and watch from afar, I'm not really comfortable about being known by others, but since it'd be myself just in a different body, I'm not really sure. I know I'm good living with the 'me(s)' inside my head, but having them around me in real life is just freaky, triggers paranoia, and living with each other is just not possible (I know I am hard to live with), having sex with myself? as long as it's different gender and looks different (actually attractive) I might consider it, having sex is a bit harmless, unless I became addicted to having sex with my clone since it'd be sorta perfect and it turns into a weakness and my clone uses it to control me, or use other weaknesses to do that...but that really depends, because I might try the same, it'd be like an endless war or peace...neither I'm sure of....
all in all, whether I'd avoid that clone or have sex with it, I'm certain that I would want to have some sort of contact even if it was for the shortest while.

and If I met my 12 y/o self I'd probably hide, run or whatever, because if my past self saw me or moreover had contact with me, it'd be a changing variable in my past self, and that would change my present self which is the same as eliminating me in this time dimention and I'm not sure I want that.