• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

PhD...Ehh

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
I am bored shitless with this PhD and I am only 3 months in. I was thinking about quitting but then I will have to pay back the scholarships. I can only cover 90% of what I have received so far.

So ehh...
 

IssphitiKOzS

Banned
Local time
Today 6:18 AM
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
123
---
Location
Toronto
Not sure boredom is grounds to quit. To each there own and all that, but it would be childish.

Does it at least lead to an interesting career?
 

~~~

Active Member
Local time
Today 6:18 AM
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
365
---
I thought INTPs only started their doctorates three months before they're due.
 

Czech Yes or No

Personality is only a small part of your person.
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
325
---
I thought INTPs only started their doctorates three months before they're due.

Comedy gold.

Proxy, what are getting your PhD in anyway? You show many interests.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
Comedy gold.

Proxy, what are getting your PhD in anyway? You show many interests.

Electricity demand modelling with respects to dealing with the phase shifts caused by distributed energy resources connected to the grid. Can't say anymore or that will be a breach of NDA.
 

Peripheral Visionary

Eye In Tee-Pee
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
177
---
Location
In the Middle of the Edge
I am bored shitless with this PhD and I am only 3 months in. I was thinking about quitting but then I will have to pay back the scholarships. I can only cover 90% of what I have received so far.

So ehh...

PhD work is boring for a reason.

You have to be intimately acquainted with boredom at higher echelons before you can hope to adequately bore your students in the future.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
PhD work is boring for a reason.

You have to be intimately acquainted with boredom at higher echelons before you can hope to adequately bore your students in the future.

I have no plans in being an academic. It it is just that the possible jobs I would like to do require a phd.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Local time
Yesterday 11:18 PM
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,687
---
I hear you, I quit a hard science phd just a year in. Found out I was just going to be adding a few decimal points to numbers that were already known.
 

Guess

Active Member
Local time
Today 7:18 AM
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
179
---
actually, your topic can be interesting. Are you considering to use smart grids to solve the phase/demand issues? If not, that is becoming hot topic.

Probably you already know this site, but here is a way to laugh out of the difficulties of this time:
http://www.phdcomics.com/

In my opinion, up to the M.Sc level, people are still steering what you should learn, what you should research.

In a PhD, it is your time to self-guide where you want to to go. By the end of the PhD, you should be the most specialist on your topic. So, maybe you are little bored sometimes, but you should be the one deciding how to take yourself out of boredom.

Some advisors don't think that way. And may make your life a hell. If that's your case, learn how to do your stuff, in spite of the advisor...

But do not forget, depth is needed for a PhD.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
actually, your topic can be interesting. Are you considering to use smart grids to solve the phase/demand issues? If not, that is becoming hot topic.

The problem is that governments in a effort to push the green agenda have incentivised people putting solar panels on their houses which feed into the grid and due to regulations there is no corresponding energy storage. This causes the voltage on the grid to be too high and the reduction in the power factor. They wish to store the excess energy generated to shave peak demand and reduce infrastructure costs.

I don't know how this project is going to be novel but I will find some small subset in the literature that is lacking. It could be novel due to the fact we have real data.

Probably you already know this site, but here is a way to laugh out of the difficulties of this time:
http://www.phdcomics.com/

Never heard of it. I will look into it.

In my opinion, up to the M.Sc level, people are still steering what you should learn, what you should research.

I was given this project on a whim. Doing a PhD was never on my to do list until I was offered a position at the end of last year.

In a PhD, it is your time to self-guide where you want to to go. By the end of the PhD, you should be the most specialist on your topic. So, maybe you are little bored sometimes, but you should be the one deciding how to take yourself out of boredom.

Some advisors don't think that way. And may make your life a hell. If that's your case, learn how to do your stuff, in spite of the advisor...

But do not forget, depth is needed for a PhD.

It is boring because all I am doing is reading text books and journal papers. I am in the process of refreshing my knowledge in electronics, power transmission and control systems. I never studies these as part of my civil engineering. I studied them on my own time many years back.
 

snafupants

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
5,007
---
Academically focusing exclusively on one area sounds worse than social work. :cat:
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
Academically focusing exclusively on one area sounds worse than social work. :cat:

I don't consider myself to be an academic. This is merely a job in my mind. Interesting enough, I earn as much money as a well paid graduate engineer. I do quite an amount of side work (lecturing, tutoring and data analysis).
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 1:18 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Electricity demand modelling with respects to dealing with the phase shifts caused by distributed energy resources connected to the grid. Can't say anymore or that will be a breach of NDA.
Having a Ph.D. increases your freedom with job choices. Not having one reduced mine severely. Too late for me to live my life over, lol. Go to "If you had three wishes" thread.

Boredom is a symptom of moving in a circle I suppose. Boredom is a useful signal to tell one that. Spiraling out breaks the boredom. You get clues for that by luck or vacationing the circle but remembering it was there. One could also break out by reason alone, but assuming that was tried already I won't go there.
==========================

Is this a proper generalization of the topic? We are dealing with random(?) waves input to a dynamic system. If probabilities could be assigned to the waves, we'd know more on how to deal with the system. I use this idea all the time when I trade stocks. However it is a case of educated intuition, not formalized. My bad?
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
Having a Ph.D. increases your freedom with job choices. Not having one reduced mine severely. Too late for me to live my life over, lol. Go to "If you had three wishes" thread.

Boredom is a symptom of moving in a circle I suppose. Boredom is a useful signal to tell one that. Spiraling out breaks the boredom. You get clues for that by luck or vacationing the circle but remembering it was there. One could also break out by reason alone, but assuming that was tried already I won't go there.
==========================

Yes, the PhD does seem worthwhile to have for future job prospects. I am making the position less boring by piling more work and organizing meetings with institutions working on similar problems. I am gaining more project management skills which is good.

Is this a proper generalization of the topic? We are dealing with random(?) waves input to a dynamic system. If probabilities could be assigned to the waves, we'd know more on how to deal with the system. I use this idea all the time when I trade stocks. However it is a case of educated intuition, not formalized. My bad?

Below is a better generalisation. I think the only time probabilities will enter the control functions would be the integration of multivariate time series analysis with in-built deterministic relationships.

The problem is that governments in a effort to push the green agenda have incentivised people putting solar panels on their houses which feed into the grid and due to regulations there is no corresponding energy storage. This causes the voltage on the grid to be too high and the reduction in the power factor. They wish to store the excess energy generated to shave peak demand and reduce infrastructure costs.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 1:18 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Re: PhD...Ehh, What the ... ?

Below is a better generalisation. I think the only time probabilities will enter the control functions would be the integration of multivariate time series analysis with in-built deterministic relationships.
Originally Posted by ProxyAmenRa
The problem is that governments in a effort to push the green agenda have incentivised people putting solar panels on their houses which feed into the grid and due to regulations there is no corresponding energy storage. This causes the voltage on the grid to be too high and the reduction in the power factor. They wish to store the excess energy generated to shave peak demand and reduce infrastructure costs.

Let me be frank. Better generalization for WHOM? For me that does not translate much. TRANSLATION - UMS

Sometimes when we are involved in something highly technical, we think in that technical language forgetting outsiders don't have the same associations. That could be okay when we are trying to construct something. It's just that when we want to make a point either inside our system or for the system as a whole, we get into trouble.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
Re: PhD...Ehh, What the ... ?


Let me be frank. Better generalization for WHOM? For me that does not translate much. TRANSLATION - UMS

Sometimes when we are involved in something highly technical, we think in that technical language forgetting outsiders don't have the same associations. That could be okay when we are trying to construct something. It's just that when we want to make a point either inside our system or for the system as a whole, we get into trouble.

Ohh, I thought you would have had experience with constructing time series statistical models. The control functions will be series of conditional statements.
 

snafupants

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
5,007
---
I don't consider myself to be an academic. This is merely a job in my mind. Interesting enough, I earn as much money as a well paid graduate engineer. I do quite an amount of side work (lecturing, tutoring and data analysis).

Listening to someone ramble for three to six hours per day would drive me insane. I've always found school a nuisance and an encumbrance on my time and freedom.
 

Moocow

Semantic Nitpicker
Local time
Today 1:18 AM
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
911
---
Location
Moocow
Listening to someone ramble for three to six hours per day would drive me insane. I've always found school a nuisance and an encumbrance on my time and freedom.

I can't agree with this assessment enough, and at this time- I'm in the last 3 months of my college career with barely enough give-a-fuck left in me to make it out.
 

Philosophyking87

It Thinks For Itself
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
827
---
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
I am bored shitless with this PhD and I am only 3 months in. I was thinking about quitting but then I will have to pay back the scholarships. I can only cover 90% of what I have received so far.

So ehh...

1. Going for a PhD is a big decision. Now that you've clearly chosen this path, it would be incredibly unwise to just give up based on a little boredom. Chances are that a little persistence will pay off. I mean, c'mon, choosing PhD programs isn't like changing clothing...

2. There are many unfortunate individuals (often very bright) in society who would very much like the chance to enroll in any PhD (or Master's) programs, but either lack sufficient funds or went to horrible inner-city urban schooling that left them unprepared to deal with the demands of college. From this perspective, I'd be glad just to have been accepted to such a program at all and would make the best of it. It's like a little kid throwing away their food, when there's starving kids in Africa. It's a little ungrateful and lacking in perspective. =

Electricity demand modelling with respects to dealing with the phase shifts caused by distributed energy resources connected to the grid. Can't say anymore or that will be a breach of NDA.

Eeh. Sounds... not so fun. But at least you'll likely have a decent career.
We can always switch positions if you want: trade me that PhD with boring electrical nonsense for the following: complete impracticality, limited social skills, extreme shyness, a philosophy major, and still having to attempt to get accepted for a philosophy grad program (which won't likely occur, if at all, for quite some time yet). =|

Whatever you're doing can't be worse than my life situation.
I'm on the path for lifetime unemployment. Woo hoo!

I can't agree with this assessment enough, and at this time- I'm in the last 3 months of my college career with barely enough give-a-fuck left in me to make it out.

Ahaha.... "barely enough give-a-fuck" perfectly captures my attitude atm.
Goddamn apathy!!!

I wish I were just fed grapes all day while I play a harp on a cloud.
No work. No stress. No worries. Just lay, eat, and play all day. =|
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
1. Going for a PhD is a big decision. Now that you've clearly chosen this path, it would be incredibly unwise to just give up based on a little boredom. Chances are that a little persistence will pay off. I mean, c'mon, choosing PhD programs isn't like changing clothing...

I choose to do a PhD on a whim mainly because I don't have to pay for it. Anyhow it is less boring now that I being proactive.

2. There are many unfortunate individuals (often very bright) in society who would very much like the chance to enroll in any PhD (or Master's) programs, but either lack sufficient funds or went to horrible inner-city urban schooling that left them unprepared to deal with the demands of college. From this perspective, I'd be glad just to have been accepted to such a program at all and would make the best of it. It's like a little kid throwing away their food, when there's starving kids in Africa. It's a little ungrateful and lacking in perspective. =

Technical trades pay well these days. Better than what one would be paid if they received a bachelor's degree. In some strange sense of irony, the poor will generally move towards these areas and will end up earning more middle class kids getting worthless bachelor's degrees. Well, that is if they're smart enough to know such vocations exist.

Sorry buddy, appeals to emotions does not work on me.

Eeh. Sounds... not so fun. But at least you'll likely have a decent career.
We can always switch positions if you want: trade me that PhD with boring electrical nonsense for the following: complete impracticality, limited social skills, extreme shyness, a philosophy major, and still having to attempt to get accepted for a philosophy grad program (which won't likely occur, if at all, for quite some time yet). =|

Whatever you're doing can't be worse than my life situation.
I'm on the path for lifetime unemployment. Woo hoo!

Philosophers, not wise enough to figure out that their supposed field of expertise is worthless to society. If I were you, I would change majors (to something that actually bears rent) or simply gtfo and consider it as a sunk cost. Once you graduate your employment prospects will be no greater than a person graduating high school.

Get a technical trade.
 

BigApplePi

Banned
Local time
Today 1:18 AM
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,984
---
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
Get a technical trade.
King. Have you looked at alternative vocations? What about computer programming? There you get to use your training in logic from philosophy.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
King. Have you looked at alternative vocations? What about computer programming? There you get to use your training in logic from philosophy.

BAP, you're mistaken. They no longer teach logic in philosophy. :D
 

Philosophyking87

It Thinks For Itself
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
827
---
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
I choose to do a PhD on a whim mainly because I don't have to pay for it. Anyhow it is less boring now that I being proactive.

That's good.



Technical trades pay well these days. Better than what one would be paid if they received a bachelor's degree. In some strange sense of irony, the poor will generally move towards these areas and will end up earning more middle class kids getting worthless bachelor's degrees. Well, that is if they're smart enough to know such vocations exist.

Sorry buddy, appeals to emotions does not work on me.

It wasn't an appeal to emotion. It was more hinting at the notion of "distributive justice" (which is by no means an emotional matter). Through this hint, I was simply trying to get across some perspective. The poor are the poor, and you can easily emotionally disregard their state of living. The point is that one should at least be intellectually aware of the situations of others when complaining about their own, from time to time. It helps to keep from complaining over spilled milk, so to speak. =]

Philosophers, not wise enough to figure out that their supposed field of expertise is worthless to society.

It's not really about wisdom. It's more about inherently loving that kind of work. And to say that it's 'worthless' may not be entirely accurate. But generally, yes, it isn't as practical as other fields.

If I were you, I would change majors (to something that actually bears rent) or simply gtfo and consider it as a sunk cost. Once you graduate your employment prospects will be no greater than a person graduating high school.

Get a technical trade.

I will deal with it. I was just bringing it up, again, to create some perspective. A boring PhD in a practical field can't be worse than an interesting degree in an impractical field. =p
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
It wasn't an appeal to emotion. It was more hinting at the notion of "distributive justice" (which is by no means an emotional matter). Through this hint, I was simply trying to get across some perspective. The poor are the poor, and you can easily emotionally disregard their state of living. The point is that one should at least be intellectually aware of the situations of others when complaining about their own, from time to time. It helps to keep from complaining over spilled milk, so to speak. =]

Distributive justice? Sounds like a load of shit to me. Statistical anomalies do not create rights to anything.

I am most definitely aware of the plight of the poor and the reasons contributing to them being poor. Reasons certainly not being issues of distributive justice. With this knowledge I simply choose not to care. With good reason of course. On the other hand, me being bored is an absolute travesty. Brings me to tears.

It's not really about wisdom. It's more about inherently loving that kind of work. And to say that it's 'worthless' may not be entirely accurate. But generally, yes, it isn't as practical as other fields.

I will deal with it. I was just bringing it up, again, to create some perspective...

You're going to spend upwards to 13 years (assuming you're going for a PhD) at university to merely wait tables. You may get work in academia. To get a decent wage you must complete a post-doc. At the same time you will be competing with tens of thousands of people for the same positions. You need to be the best at what you do. Suppose you do get a well paying position in academia. What will you do when the education bubble bursts?

With any type of investment you need to gather information and use this information to speculate about future conditions.

By the way, they're bringing back debtor's prisons in the US.

A boring PhD in a practical field can't be worse than an interesting degree in an impractical field. =p

Can't you simply study philosophy in your leisure time? No matter what your vocation is, if you pursue knowledge and truth you're a philosopher.

Work in itself is not boring. Doing very little is boring.
 

Philosophyking87

It Thinks For Itself
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
827
---
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
Yeah, for the most part, none of that is really news to me.
I simply detest most forms of labor. If not for that, I'm sure I'd have changed my mind by now. =| -- that's the how much I inherently love (and naturally seem to have "been born for") ideas and abstract, philosophical problems. My Ti simply goes nuts with philosophical issues, and I find it's my natural forte.

So yeah, you seem open to practical labor (only you find the process of a particular PhD to be rather tedious and boring). Largely, this is a matter of choice. In my situation, on the other hand, there is very little comfortable choice. Most forms of labor would literally make me want to stab my eyeballs out, so much so that I desperately cling to the undoubtedly most impractical college major there is.

To put it another way, the area of work I would absolutely love (given I don't find many areas of work at all fascinating, or even tolerable) simply happens to be undesired/impractical/somewhat useless/scarce. For others in life, not only are there plenty more interests (such as accountant, nurse, or therapist), but many of those jobs are actually plentiful, practical, and not usually very difficult to attain. (For instance, some people love the idea of being elementary teachers, yet it's not entirely difficult to become one).

So again, simply finding a PhD program to be a little boring seems like a fart compared to a situation in which the only job you can imagine yourself doing is pretty much both impossible to attain and impractical as hell. At least you seem willing to adapt and will likely have a nice career in the end. Thus, a little boredom would certainly be the last thing on my mind if I were on track towards a nice practical career that I actually found interesting, because being stuck with an outdated profession (due to it being my only form of labor of interest and matching compatibility) is certainly much worse. =]

Good luck.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
I simply detest most forms of labor.

Ohh yes, god forbid ever having to work. That is for the lesser people. The ones not so gifted with a mind that can see reality for what it really is.

Have you ever labored? Hands blistered and bleeding from weeks of shoveling dirt? Manual labor 12 hour days in 60 degrees Celsius heat? Pick recyclate from landfill? I know I have.

Well, good luck with your endeavors. Don't think of too many social reform ideas such as distributed justice. You will just creating more ideas for me to render to the dust bin of history.
 

Philosophyking87

It Thinks For Itself
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
827
---
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
Ohh yes, god forbid ever having to work. That is for the lesser people. The ones not so gifted with a mind that can see reality for what it really is.

It's not "work" that is the problem. It's the kinds of meaningless jobs of pure drudgery and slavery-like menial tasks that I'm talking about. For some people, lots of practical work isn't so bad. You get to talk to people. You get to help people. You get to solve problems. You push buttons and process people's transactions. This is all good stuff -- not necessarily work that lacks integrity or an adequate amount of human dignity. Yet it's for some people. I personally don't like people, small talk, socializing, mindlessly pushing buttons, or solving certain technical problems with which I associate no amount of passion. Sadly, this is a majority of all jobs out there. So it's not "work" that's bad; it's the "kind of work" which exists that I take issue with. It's simply tends to be jobs I find incompatible with my own traits, for the most part.

Also, work is by no means for "lesser people." Work can be a very good and meaningful thing, so long as the person feels that they are contributing to society in a dignified fashion. Again, most forms of work aren't something I'd called dignified, but for others they can be very meaningful. So I don't hold a moronic absolute black and white rule of "people who work = tools" and "people who don't work = kings." That's not at all what I'm talking about, even if many people indeed can be exploited by those in power to work for bad prices and such.

And sure, you're somewhat catching onto my outlook. The ability to see reality for what it's worth -- to really see the complex dynamics and relationships which exist in the giant interplay of workers and administrators/managers really does go a long way in shaping the way I see work. To me, some people seem to grab the best forms of labor for themselves (where they sit around doing enjoyable work), leaving the worst ones for others. Those that will reap the greatest benefits for those in powerful positions are considered "valuable," while those which are not beneficial are labeled "useless." Clearly, I realize that philosophical work is considered useless simply because it does not benefit people in a direct and straightforward physical manner. It lacks any real utility (i.e., it's not very "profitable"). Therefore, it's labeled useless, and I am "advised" to seek alternative forms of labor. Yet I hold it as a principle that humans should only offer labor as a service to a community if such labor is absolutely similar enough to the person's psychological traits to be considered "dignified." Should I labor simply because other people got to the cookie jar first, based on a plethora of factors for the most part out of their control, or mine? Should I labor in a system in which there clearly exists unfair forms of job allocation such as nepotism? Should I labor in a system which merely happens to value certain forms of work over others, whereas other cultures may not?

If I am aware that any society's values (based on their ideology) tend to have a bearing on what jobs are considered fruitful in comparison to those which are not, and if indeed such a society's values tend to overlook work which I find meaningful, why should I cave in and succumb to such social trends? Because that's all any of this really is. Economic and social trends that go round and round, where the allocation of resources, goods, and jobs is affected by numerous social factors that prevent any notion of actual justice. Just to mention a few: 1) educational inequality, 2) racial inequality, 3) socioeconomic inequality, 4) wealth inheritance, and all of the various problems with flow from these few things, among others. To put it simply: we have simply not reached a point adequate enough so that people truly can feel confident in knowing that the positions they acquired were gained due to some personal effort or traits, and nothing else. Instead, people are expected to work in a sea of meaningless drudgery, where with enough money or unethical trickery, some individuals can move higher up the hierarchical ladder, such that the best jobs are secured for themselves (and clearly, this likely happens all the time). In a system such as ours (with lobbying, interest groups, the iron triangle, and political contributions) it's not hard to see how money can buy anything, right along with social connections and a lot of kiss-assing (which is what students are taught to do right out of high school, just to get them well acquainted with that sort of behavior, as they'll have to bend over and take it up the pooper their entire adult lives, for some boss or manager they entirely loath).

In sum, then, I can see the bullshit inequality and inherent human favoritism and social tendencies humans tend to have when it comes to the allocation of all things in civil society. On the whole, some win and some lose, and usually through no fault of their own. We have not secured principles strong enough to prevent the many inefficient and unjust trends which occur in job allocation today (such as Rawlsian "justice as fairness," as an example). As a result, I see no point in surrendering myself to the will of others who expect some people to give, give, and give, when the very inclination to work and contribute in society is absolutely predicated upon the notion that we will all benefit from such social cooperation. Yet as we clearly see, not everyone benefits from today's social structure. Some end up practically slaves serving the will of other men (poor taxi cab drivers, maids, and waiters), while some end up kings of society, with their boots spit shined, their champagne, their yachts, their cheap hookers behind their wive's backs, their drugs, and their constant parties (such as rich kids, wall street crooks, and clueless socialites). As such, it seems reasonable to me that if I am going to work in a crooked system which forces people to work, which does not benefit most of them (but which benefits a few select portion of the populace) and which goes about labor in a fashion (capitalism) which randomly happens to work in the favor of some individuals over others (e.g., those who would like to be bank tellers or accountants vs. those would like to be artists, musicians, or writers), I should aspire to become what I want rather simply accept any particular "conditions" which may arbitrarily exist for me. In essence, the system isn't fair in more than one way, and arbitrary social factors bear down upon all of us (for better or worse), so on what basis can I consider it justified that I should feel compelled to offer my labor to such a system? It's irrational.

Thus, as I see it, I have no obligation to this type of society, given its current state. Its methods of job allocation and value-system are not in alignment with my own view of things (my ability to imagine a much more efficient and fair system which accommodates human diversity rather than just valuing profits and treating a large number of people merely as economic commodities, or objects). Given I think people should consciously choose to work for any given community on the basis that they feel that job allocation is "legitimate," just as people believe people should accept any government on the basis of political legitimacy (i.e., it treats them properly and grants them some form of power), I cannot say that I should simply work in some random area of labor, where profits are most high (simply because we only care about profits in today's economic landscape), just so I can "make rent." Sadly, I do not value profits and I do not accept arbitrary job positions that really have little to do with people's particular traits (but more to do with stuff like ass-kissing, as I said earlier). Competition is a silly concept that basically means, "Try your best to conform!" The one who does the best job acting like society's little bitch gets the cookie. It's a rat race. And clearly, that form of subjugation is unacceptable. So, if I want to contribute to a community (on my own terms) by potentially teaching philosophy, then so be it. If I want to, I will. If I don't, I really don't think society's in a position to truly justify the notion that I "must work in an unfavorable system." And regardless, given I realize that society will not likely change any time soon, I'd sooner accept a crappy job and rebelliously disregard society's arbitrary expectations (by learning philosophy as I personally wish to), so long as I even have the chance of becoming what I want in such a broken system. Thus, again, you should be glad that you don't have principles which conflict with the very nature of today's social and economic trends, or that you have an interest in working practical jobs that you don't absolutely loathe, and that such jobs are available to you (rather than considered and deemed "useless" by those who greedily place profits above all else). Crying about a boring PhD program is spilled milk. The world clearly somewhat mirrors your interests, as you seem to enjoy the subject matter.


Have you ever labored? Hands blistered and bleeding from weeks of shoveling dirt? Manual labor 12 hour days in 60 degrees Celsius heat? Pick recyclate from landfill? I know I have.

The fact that you have labored in such conditions has nothing to do with whether or not such labor was justified. Moreover, some people are better capable of dealing with such harsh manual labor, while some are better off dealing with children, some with patients, some with numbers, some with moving vehicles, some with machinery, some with customers, and some with administration. Thus, even the lowest jobs can be better suited to certain people over others, due to their psychological traits. As I have said, my traits do not match most jobs. My traits match highly impractical work which is not very profitable. Creativity, logical abstract reasoning, design, etc. Certainly much of this is only profitable in the case of an extreme amount of talent, which makes it very difficult to translate into great work. And again, have you ever given two thoughts as to why it was you, specifically, who had to work in this way? Some people never work, sit around playing video games, and live off of mommy and daddy's money, while they throw lavish parties, have sex with the best looking people, blow their money on all kinds of quality goods, and get piggy packed up all the way to a great job. Why do some people have to work in heal, while some do not, merely because one had money and the other did not? Clearly, your very own experiences with such (what most people would call) tedious labor are likely unjust.

At any rate, by "tedious," I did not necessarily mean "manual labor." I meant a majority of all jobs out there, including elementary teachers, clerks, cashiers, bank tellers, nursery people, administrators, photographers, firefighters, carpenters, etc, etc., etc. In short, the jobs I would enjoy are either very hard to get or highly impractical. They're very uncommon and therefore only a handful of people ever get them. Those that are abundant are usually not at all compatible with my logical, creative mental framework. So again, there are problems out in the world of work, and some people eventually find suitable positions, while others may never actually enjoy the work they do. That is a problem, as some people never really get a rational choice in determining how they want to work, or the work they desire may be devalued according to narrow-minded profit values. All these problems support my argument.


Well, good luck with your endeavors. Don't think of too many social reform ideas such as distributed justice. You will just creating more ideas for me to render to the dust bin of history.

I'm sure it would be a very good thing for society if those people who did offer revolutionary ideas of social reform simply started to believe -- due to the infection of the valuing of profits at all costs -- that they should simply have learned a practical trade and become engineers instead, rather than "waste time" on such silly ideas. Right... No offense, but you embody everything that I find problematic with the world today. Ideas and questions are devalued, while resource exploitation and "business" is placed on a silly pedestal. This type of philistine thinking and "concern for results and profits" is highly anti-intellectual, and it largely accounts for the negative social conditions of which I speak. People like you would rather build a house than question whether or not such a house should have been built in the first place. It is a pity and I do hope you have fun sucking this world dry of everything it has to offer simple, materialistic, anti-philosophical people such as yourself. I will try my best to have no part in it. I am a person of thought, not mindless action and easy profits. I could care less about the very concept of profit. It is a nasty disease.

Good day.
 

DetachedRetina

(∞__∞)
Local time
Today 6:18 AM
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
454
---
Location
Florida
^In length I'm assuming. You know... word count

Of course worth as a human is held in equal shares by all! :p
 

Minuend

pat pat
Local time
Today 7:18 AM
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
4,142
---
2. There are many unfortunate individuals (often very bright) in society who would very much like the chance to enroll in any PhD (or Master's) programs, but either lack sufficient funds or went to horrible inner-city urban schooling that left them unprepared to deal with the demands of college. From this perspective, I'd be glad just to have been accepted to such a program at all and would make the best of it. It's like a little kid throwing away their food, when there's starving kids in Africa. It's a little ungrateful and lacking in perspective. =
|

20110722.gif
 

DetachedRetina

(∞__∞)
Local time
Today 6:18 AM
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
454
---
Location
Florida
Well at least the least fortunate man on earth has that going for him. Which probably makes him the 2nd least fortunate man on earth. Wait...
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
^In length I'm assuming. You know... word count

The word count does not provide compensation for the nonsensical ramble.

An example:

To me, some people seem to grab the best forms of labor for themselves (where they sit around doing enjoyable work), leaving the worst ones for others.

Bold, my emphasis. I was unaware that "best forms of labor" could be grabbed or the implicit alternative, allocated according to a supposed equitable regime. What occurs in reality is that the person who is competent in fulfilling the role, at a corresponding price point, generally is offered the job.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
The fact that you have labored in such conditions has nothing to do with whether or not such labor was justified.

It was most definitely justified. I acted with a purpose in mind with the undertakings of such tasks.

Right... No offense, but you embody everything that I find problematic with the world today.

You embody everything I find problematic with the world today. A person who thinks just because he and others exist, he is and they're entitled to the labor of others.

Ideas and questions are devalued, while resource exploitation and "business" is placed on a silly pedestal.

I do not see you putting forward any ideas of merit nor any questions that are worth addressing. I read a great amount of rhetoric.

Resource exploitation? I fail to see how this could even be used is a derogatory manner.

Businesses on a pedestal? They provide goods and services that people value.

This type of philistine thinking and "concern for results and profits" is highly anti-intellectual, and it largely accounts for the negative social conditions of which I speak.

You're quite correct. I do only care for results and profit. I see nothing wrong with inequality or people being wealthy.

People like you would rather build a house than question whether or not such a house should have been built in the first place.

I guess all those courses taken and experienced gained in the subject of finance never paid off.

It is a pity and I do hope you have fun sucking this world dry of everything it has to offer simple, materialistic, anti-philosophical people such as yourself.

Quite the contrary. It is the same perverse mode of thought as the one you have conveyed which sucks this world dry of everything. Action based on the ideas your promote is what destroys what creates wealth. The study of economics is very enlightening on this matter.

I am materialistic. I am not anti-philosophy. I am anti your philosophy. I am anti scabs, looters and those who think the products of other people's labor is their own.

I will try my best to have no part in it. I am a person of thought, not mindless action and easy profits. I could care less about the very concept of profit. It is a nasty disease.

In the world of business, profit is not easy to attain. It simply does not spawn into existence like mana. When someone does receive a profit, it entails the information that a mode of production is valuable to society.

Me? Mindless action? You're kidding yourself. I am purpose and intent manifest.
 

Philosophyking87

It Thinks For Itself
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
827
---
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
Interesting passage:

"In parenting an Intuitive child, it is often necessary to act as a cushion barrier, protecting them from an outside world that doesn't tend to appreciate the value of alternative thinking. As a society, we seem to admire highly creative or unconventional people only after they've attained a certain measure of financial success or celebrity status." -- Nurture by Nature, by Paul D. Tieger

Again, creative individuals are usually only valued for anything practical or profitable they offer to a largely sensor-dominant society. The typical work to be done in any community largely tends to base around practical tasks and social services of various sorts -- not creative ones. This can clearly be incredibly difficult for some Intuitive individuals to cope with, as their natural skills are not often of demand (leading to incredible competition), and they tend to come with a need for a higher level of education and training than the easier, more practical tasks. Philosophy clearly is a great example of this, along with psychology and anthropology, just to name a few others.
 

Puffy

"Wtf even was that"
Local time
Today 6:18 AM
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
4,000
---
Location
Path with heart
I'm confused what you're both debating now. :confused:

Maybe that even the process of designing requires some kind of knowledge of the process of implementation or the design has the capacity to become unusable.

At the end of the day skills come not just from thinking. Philosophy is inert, imo, if it doesn't convert into, or inform, some kind of action, ways of living, how to treat others, etc and so I can't think of any position which involves philosophy that wouldn't require the development of other practical skills alongside it; if teaching good communication, personal relationships, planning, etc.

As best I can see Proxy is just saying not to throw everything into the abstract realm of thought when you're not going to find a job that doesn't require some kind of practical skills.
 

DetachedRetina

(∞__∞)
Local time
Today 6:18 AM
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
454
---
Location
Florida
heh heh. I was just busting your chops. Besides, my posts are mostly all very short
 

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Local time
Today 12:18 PM
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
1,857
---
Location
th
QUIT QUIT QUIT!!!

Or just get a job at McDonalds for 2 weeks and then get fired/fried.


Makes PhD look good.

Just don't take a holiday.
That shits gonna make all else look like crap.
You'd contemplate about being a hobo as a profession.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
Again, creative individuals are usually only valued for anything practical or profitable they offer to a largely sensor-dominant society.

In what sense are you using the term 'value'? Are you talking about the worth of their faculties in an exchange of goods and services? Or are you speaking of the value of their being based on the properties of their character and/or the ideas that they uphold?

To me, it seems as so you're conflating the two. In either case, the extent at which they're valued by others is not theirs to decide. Other people are in control of their own cognitive faculties and it is their own prerogative to decide on such matters.

What makes you think that creativity and ingenuity is not required to solve issues of the non-abstract kind? That is not required to solve practical problems? That is not required to make business successful and reap the rewards?

Your demonisation of profit is ridiculous in the first place. Our very nature is to act in such a way that we bring about a better state of affairs ie. to reap profit. To demonise such a thing is to demonise your very existence. Let me guess; [redacted].

The typical work to be done in any community largely tends to base around practical tasks and social services of various sorts -- not creative ones.

They will always be more important because without fulfill of needs on these grounds, people will starve to death while pondering the Kantian method of inquiry. I doubt someone will find a statement whereby the act of disproving such a statement will prove it to be true and thus result in food being placed on people's plates and shelters being constructed.

This can clearly be incredibly difficult for some Intuitive individuals to cope with, as their natural skills are not often of demand (leading to incredible competition), and they tend to come with a need for a higher level of education and training than the easier, more practical tasks.

God forbid these intuitive individuals having to cope with tasks not attuned to their sensibilities. What will we ever do if they have to engage in activities that bother them so? Wait, we're not obligated to do anything. Mainly because the perils of their existence is not anyone else's burden but their own.

Where I am from there is an interesting saying. It was said to me by my dearest friend. 'Put another teaspoon of cement in your next coffee and harden the fuck up.' With the previous statement, all was conveyed that we needed to be conveyed. Complaints by the idle are not valued. What is valued is purposeful action.

Philosophy clearly is a great example of this, along with psychology and anthropology, just to name a few others.

I have studied philosophy, psychology and anthropology without needing to be sheltered from engaging in tasks I did not like. If people wish to study such things for their eventual vocation, they will have to bear the ramifications of their decisions.
 

snafupants

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
5,007
---
In what sense are you using the term 'value'? Are you talking about the worth of their faculties in an exchange of goods and services? Or are you speaking of the value of their being based on the properties of their character and/or the ideas that they uphold?

To me, it seems as so you're conflating the two. In either case, the extent at which they're valued by others is not theirs to decide. Other people are in control of their own cognitive faculties and it is their own prerogative to decide on such matters.

What makes you think that creativity and ingenuity is not required to solve issues of the non-abstract kind? That is not required to solve practical problems? That is not required to make business successful and reap the rewards?

Your demonisation of profit is ridiculous in the first place. Our very nature is to act in such a way that we bring about a better state of affairs ie. to reap profit. To demonise such a thing is to demonise your very existence. Let me guess; [redacted].



They will always be more important because without fulfill of needs on these grounds, people will starve to death while pondering the Kantian method of inquiry. I doubt someone will find a statement whereby the act of disproving such a statement will prove it to be true and thus result in food being placed on people's plates and shelters being constructed.



God forbid these intuitive individuals having to cope with tasks not attuned to their sensibilities. What will we ever do if they have to engage in activities that bother them so? Wait, we're not obligated to do anything. Mainly because the perils of their existence is not anyone else's burden but their own.

Where I am from there is an interesting saying. It was said to me by my dearest friend. 'Put another teaspoon of cement in your next coffee and harden the fuck up.' With the previous statement, all was conveyed that we needed to be conveyed. Complaints by the idle are not valued. What is valued is purposeful action.



I have studied philosophy, psychology and anthropology without needing to be sheltered from engaging in tasks I did not like. If people wish to study such things for their eventual vocation, they will have to bear the ramifications of their decisions.

Was studying psychology just idiomatically equated to premarital sex and teen pregnancy? :confused:
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Local time
Today 3:18 PM
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,668
---
Location
Australia
Was studying psychology just idiomatically equated to premarital sex and teen pregnancy? :confused:

I believe you're the only one who has done so. Now that you have brought it up, I think it is a good idea.

The conversation is not about whether or not studying psychology is a worth while investment. The conversation was in regards to Philosophyking87's avocation of the rest of society being burdened by a class of people. The characteristics of the class being that they exist, are distressed by the possibility engaging in work that they wish no to do and studying philosophy. The fact of the matter being is that Philosophyking87 and his ilk would like to be parasites and not have people realize it.
 

snafupants

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:18 AM
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
5,007
---
I believe you're the only one who has done so. Now that you have brought it up, I think it is a good idea.

Yeah your whole spiel seemed hyperbolic. The tenor of the post had an old testament fire and brimstone feel to it. I couldn't care less about which school of knowledge you pursue.
 

kantor1003

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 6:18 AM
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,574
---
Location
Norway
They will always be more important because without fulfill of needs on these grounds, people will starve to death while pondering the Kantian method of inquiry.
This made me chuckle.

The fact of the matter being is that Philosophyking87 and his ilk would like to be parasites and not have people realize it.

Regarding the parasites I would like to mention two kinds - The ones having the fortune where their area of interest, and later, expertise, is in public demand (effectively not ending up being a parasite), and the ones where their are of interest, and later, expertise, isn't in public demand (effectively often ending up like parasites or working a dead end job living in a state of perpetual existential crisis. Or they could, as you say, take some more cement in their coffee. There are several interesting subjects that is in public demand, and learning to adapt to it and realize that everything can't be done on your own terms (unless you have the luxury of having a large sum of money) would probably do one good).
 
Top Bottom