Are you a "complete" person?

[Goku]

I progressed through the following stages as an INTP, maybe others followed similar paths:

1. I'm weird
2. There are others like me
3. By understanding myself, I can understand others.

It is all too easy to get stuck in stage 2. It brings comfort to find acceptance among like minds. However, like minds can also be a crutch, inhibiting self actualization.

I see people as inherently The Same-- but behaving in different ways. In essence, I believe we all have the same thoughts and feelings, and these impulses, which we all share, get expressed differently depending on how each individual is wired.

Therefore, an ENFP can 'feel' love, and INTP can 'feel' love-- I imagine we are feeling the same thing. Yet from a neutral 3rd party's viewpoint, the ENFP is an affectionate teddy-bear while the INTP is a cold emotionless stone, something like that; however, the point remains that both feel the same inside, but it is the expression which differs.

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One example is: I can often resort to expressing anger when my impulse emotion is love. I love my girlfriend. Let's say she says something that is hurtful or annoying. I might not express this emotion directly, but I may instead opt to react angrily and ignore her because she has hurt me with her words.

She will interpret this angry gesture and have no clue it arises from a feeling of love.

If she somehow had this psychic ability to know how an INTP's mind is wired, communication would be easier.

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So I still think the main problem between types is communication.

If one is a "complete" person, as I mention in the thread title, one will be able to communicate with a wide range of types. A less complete person will only be able to communicate with his/her own type, INTP for example... and sometimes may not even be able to communicate with even that.

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If you are an INTP-- and can successfully communicate the same idea to an INTP and an ESFJ, that is the mark of a complete person.

The INTP for example, doesn't mind going off on tangents. If I'm explaining something to another INTP, I could beat around the bush for hours, before I finally arrive at the conclusion.

From my personal experience, the ESFJ likes you to get to the point quick, and immediately. And, you might have to reason backwards with the ESFJ. So, you start with your conclusion, and then you explain sequentially, in reverse, how you arrived there.

The INTP doesn't mind if you start at the top of the funnel and swirl down till you get to the point.

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On another note, if you are an INTP, you are probably not bothered by this post, because it went on a lot of tangents and didn't actually revolve around any specific conclusion.

non INTPs will be like WTF is this shit.

 

[Goku]

so, an INTP who expresses depression by becoming even more hermit and binge eating...

like an INFP emo who cuts

they are expressing the same feeling; it is the observer's responsibility to distinguish the actions and realize they mean the same thing.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Addressing everything up to the main point:

Spoiler

My stages (roughly):

1. Innocent curiosity.
2. Pervasive control and domination by fear.
3. Animalistic attack.
4. Necessary introspection.
5. Egoism.
6. False ego loss (ego shift): Altruism.
7. Ego loss.
8. Peace & a sense of calm before the storm.

I think the change in myself since joining this forum has been quite marked. I joined during my stage 6. I'm pretty certain that your list 1-3 probably fits into my 4, though at that time I didn't seek like minds based on personality type or any other tangible thing; I looked for people who stuck out, because I wasn't quite sure how I stuck out.

I started off by trolling.

I was generally an aggressive, self-conscious asshole riddled with overtones of... prestige.

And produced dense, seemingly tangential walls of text.

I've become a more refined and observant thinker, less aggressive, and... will probably forevermore keep typing dense, seemingly tangential walls of text.

However, like minds can also be a crutch, inhibiting self actualization.

I agree with this idea. Likeness leads to magnified flaws.

I see people as inherently The Same-- but behaving in different ways. In essence, I believe we all have the same thoughts and feelings, and these impulses, which we all share, get expressed differently depending on how each individual is wired.

Therefore, an ENFP can 'feel' love, and INTP can 'feel' love-- I imagine we are feeling the same thing. Yet from a neutral 3rd party's viewpoint, the ENFP is an affectionate teddy-bear while the INTP is a cold emotionless stone, something like that; however, the point remains that both feel the same inside, but it is the expression which differs.
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One example is: I can often resort to expressing anger when my impulse emotion is love. I love my girlfriend. Let's say she says something that is hurtful or annoying. I might not express this emotion directly, but I may instead opt to react angrily and ignore her because she has hurt me with her words.

She will interpret this angry gesture and have no clue it arises from a feeling of love.

This, I'm not so sure of. I agree with your overarching idea of shared subjective experience, but not that all subjective experience is equal. I'd agree that there would be some experiential overlap in those who share the same functions, i.e. ENTP, INTP, ESFJ, ISFJ. There's also no such thing as a neutral third party.

What you're basically saying is that people are the same, but behave in different ways, and that behavior is the result of expression which differs because individuals are different... which is a logical clusterfuck because if pink is true, then green is false. (Of course 'clusterfuck" isn't really code for "wrong," if we tweak it a bit and say that cognitive processes (cognitive functions) are the same and are expressed differently in different individuals due to intrinsic factors. This is basically Jung's idea.

Intrinsic subjectivity gets in the way, which is what prevents your girlfriend from ever experiencing the same "love" that you do; which is what makes "true love" akin to both individuals being in their own subjective state of love, according to their own criteria as well as their partner's interpretation.

The fact that you're describing being hurt and annoyed leads me to believe you're feeling slight tinges of my egoism.

And the rest:

Spoiler

So I still think the main problem between types is communication.

If one is a "complete" person, as I mention in the thread title, one will be able to communicate with a wide range of types. A less complete person will only be able to communicate with his/her own type, INTP for example... and sometimes may not even be able to communicate with even that.

I think this is what I described here, no? Communication is a means of increasing perception.

If you are an INTP-- and can successfully communicate the same idea to an INTP and an ESFJ, that is the mark of a complete person.

Not really, because:

1. INTP and ESFJ share the same cognitive functions.

2. Communication is a mutual endeavor. A large portion of the work must be done by the listener. Try convincing a donkey to jump through hoops of fire.

The INTP for example, doesn't mind going off on tangents. If I'm explaining something to another INTP, I could beat around the bush for hours, before I finally arrive at the conclusion.

I legitimately fear the course of this thread.

On another note, if you are an INTP, you are probably not bothered by this post, because it went on a lot of tangents and didn't actually revolve around any specific conclusion.

I wouldn't agree with this. INTPs like to build things into their understanding or use their understanding to complete a bigger picture, which is much easier to do when things are concise and tied together.

So am I a complete person? Yes and no. I've got all my body parts but an imperfect perception.

 

[Architect]

Completely.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

You can say you are functionally complete.
I would behave in one way or another in every situation. I cannot think of a situation that would stop me totally in my tracks.

 

[Jennywocky]

I see people as inherently The Same-- but behaving in different ways. In essence, I believe we all have the same thoughts and feelings, and these impulses, which we all share, get expressed differently depending on how each individual is wired.

Yes, that's the gist of it, overall.

One example is: I can often resort to expressing anger when my impulse emotion is love. I love my girlfriend. Let's say she says something that is hurtful or annoying. I might not express this emotion directly, but I may instead opt to react angrily and ignore her because she has hurt me with her words.

She will interpret this angry gesture and have no clue it arises from a feeling of love.

If she somehow had this psychic ability to know how an INTP's mind is wired, communication would be easier.

Well, to be honest, this sort of behavior shows up in lots of different types, if you want to get technical... more common in the introverted types because they internalize while showing something different on the surface by nature.

Anger is known as a secondary emotion, in general, for this reason. It usually arises out of anticipation of loss or hurt, or the experience of such.

So I still think the main problem between types is communication.

Yes.

We each have our own lexicon spawning from nature and nature, and I think at first we don't realize our lexicon can differ significantly from other people's. So we interpret them based on our on lexicon and sometimes come up with hugely incorrect interpretations of behavior.

 

[Void]

Almost.

 

[The Void]

Define complete.
For me complete is one who is one with the Void within oneself.