Are you ENTP or INTP ?

[giorgaros2]

Well first of all i believe that there might be many mistyped INTPs here , that are actually ENTPs with undeveloped Fe.First of all you gotta discard the view that ENTPs are people oriented , charming and popular.They can be if they develop Fe (This comes naturally later than 30years i think)

Imagine ESFP's Te.Most ESFPs have Te just as like ENTP's have Fe , you can see that many ESFP's may like working and organizing things , but guess what?? They are not good at it (at least 90% of ESFPs i have met in tha age range of 18-25).ESTJs too, they have high Ne so they like taking info in, they like reading new stuff , reading history etc , they will know stuff.But guess what?They aren't good at it , you dont see ESTJ being openminded and making absurd connections etc.

Just like ESFPs and ESTJ and all other types , ENTP's have third Fe , which means they will like people more than INTP's but they arent *naturally* good with people.That means that they may be shy , akward etc.Now when they get older maybe they can develop good Fe i dont know.

So the best way to see the difference between ENTP and INTP isnt through social extraversion but by looking at Ne and Ti.INTPs have better Si than ENTPs and that shows too.
The difference between Ne dom and Ti dom is :

Ne doms , are perceivers , they like taking info in ,like all the time.For example i as an ENTP have seen millions of anime , movies , series , i have even crossed to the domain of Se and experienced many things outside ,many sports many different crazy situations. ENTPs take too much info in for their own good , and they sometimes create Ti models out of it but their Ti models are fluid and always changing to better reflect reality.ENTP Ti models also are filled with less info because of low Si.
Ti doms,are judger , they like to judge logically.Their main way of operating is by Logically manipulating models of thought and theories in their head so they make sense.Everything must make sense to an INTP.They typically use Ne to gain new info from outside but Ne serves Ti , that means they take info from outside primarily to help Ti models.
Their models are also more rigid and more detailed.INTPs may discard new info if it doesnt fit with their model.That may lead to INTP models being too subjective to explain things.ENTP's on the other hand dont do that, they always change their models to better fit reality.

The main difference between INTPs and ENTPs

ENTPs like to take new info primarily for fun.And most of their time is spend exploring.
INTPs like to take new info primarily for helping Ti models , and most of their time is spend managing their Ti models.

 

[QuickTwist]

gah. I don't have the energy to make a post addressing the things that are not exact in their essence.

I'll just point out a couple things.

Comparing an ENTP to a ESFP seems... wrong to do. Especially in the way you are doing it (no offence).

There is nothing that says that an ESTP will like people any more than an INTP would and you have indicated otherwise.

An INTP, by your theory, is only better at Si noticeably not until they are, lets say, 35 years old than an ENTP who is the same age.

Ne Doms perceive outwardly, they do not soak up info for a data base like the INTP does with Si. ENTP's exhaust information constantly and that is the key thing that you are not getting I think.
Ti will mull things over in their brain in a way that would make an ESFP sick to their stomach. INTP's use Ne to generate Ideas from within -another key difference that you are not understanding about Ne.

The diff between Ti and Ne doms in NTP's is this:
The Ti dom is more thorough in its approach to explain.
The Ne dom is more focused on generating ideas at lighting speed.

 

[giorgaros2]

gah. I don't have the energy to make a post addressing the things that are not exact in their essence.

I'll just point out a couple things.

Comparing an ENTP to a ESFP seems... wrong to do. Especially in the way you are doing it (no offence).

There is nothing that says that an ESTP will like people any more than an INTP would and you have indicated otherwise.

An INTP, by your theory, is only better at Si noticeably not until they are, lets say, 35 years old than an ENTP who is the same age.

Ne Doms perceive outwardly, they do not soak up info for a data base like the INTP does with Si. ENTP's exhaust information constantly and that is the key thing that you are not getting I think.
Ti will mull things over in their brain in a way that would make an ESFP sick to their stomach. INTP's use Ne to generate Ideas from within -another key difference that you are not understanding about Ne.

The diff between Ti and Ne doms in NTP's is this:
The Ti dom is more thorough in its approach to explain.
The Ne dom is more focused on generating ideas at lighting speed.

What i wanted to say by comparing ESFP's and ESTJ's for example to ENTPs is that for example ESFP's use Te much more than ISFP , but they are not good with it, same as ENTP's ,they are more people oriented and better with people than INTP's but they arent good with people , they are better than INTP's but that doesnt mean that they are good in Fe.
Also i didnt mean that ESTPs like people more than INTPs , i said that they are better with them , more people oriented and like being with people more than the INTP.There is a difference.

Also Ne isnt just an idea generator , it can be but this is just an aspect of Ne.Ne in its most basic sense , perceives new data , it either creates them from brainstorming or takes them ready from outside.
Also Si doesnt perceive the outside world , Ne does that , Si perceives the inner world , (memory of data or something like that) .Ne and Si work together very often ,Ne will look outside and use what is in Si to understand what really is under the surface and take more and better new data in.
On the other hand , when an INTP uses Si , he perceives the inner database and then creates new data using Ne without looking outside.
This isnt too different from generating data from outside as Ne doms do more often.In fact its the same.

 

[QuickTwist]

Fe is simply the subjects (the I) values (belief oriented thought process) towards objects (the external world outside of the I).

Se is simply the subjects (the I) perception (Information from senses) of objects (the external world outside the other I).

Ne is the subjects creation (information linking one idea to another) of the objects.

Te is the subjects manifestation (logic based thought process) of the objects.

 

[giorgaros2]

No what i am trying to say is that Ne isnt just linking ideas and generating data.Seriously if you are a Ne dom you are supposed to use more Ne than Ti.Lets say in your day the sum of the time you use Ne as an Entp is 7 and Ti is 4 (this is just an example i dont really know) , so that means that for 7 hours the ENTP is going to generate ideas and linking ideas with one another ? I dont know if have ever met someone like that.
What i am trying to say is that you are right about Ne beingvery good about generating ideas and making connections but this is not the core essence of Ne.
The essence of Ne can be described by one word : "curiosity"

 

[QuickTwist]

OK, what prompts this curiosity? It is questions. Questions that are answered in rapid succession. This is Ne.

 

[giorgaros2]

OK, what prompts this curiosity? It is questions. Questions that are answered in rapid succession. This is Ne.

Questions like these:,How does that work? Whats going on behind the scenes here?I want to read that book and see what its about.(not a question :P)..Curiosity gets satisfied by generating connections to understand whats going on but it is mostly satisfied (like 70% of the time i dont know) by taking ready info from outside.
For example i want to know the history of france i go at the wikipedia and i read it.
I have read the description of an anime and i am curious about it , then i go and binge watch it . etc. etc.

 

[Inquisitor]

@OP

I'm not sure if your post is just brainstorming or if you're asserting these ideas as facts. If it's the former, that's cool. I gotta say that if it's the latter, there are few issues with what you're saying. It is a bit difficult to separate INTPs and ENTPs based on the dominant function alone. That said, the tertiary, in practice, is not something that is easy to observe. Instead, you have to look for obvious signs of the inferior.

 

[QuickTwist]

Its the question of action vs. passively taking non-action. I see your point that Ne still manifests itself in action, but it doesn't have to. Once that process of exploration is lost it is no longer what would be considered Ne, but passes into Si or Ti or exhausts itself in the form of Fe.

 

[giorgaros2]

Why is it so difficult to know if your are Ti dom vs a Ne dom :P

 

[giorgaros2]

[LATEX][/LATEX]

Its the question of action vs. passively taking non-action. I see your point that Ne still manifests itself in action, but it doesn't have to. Once that process of exploration is lost it is no longer what would be considered Ne, but passes into Si or Ti or exhausts itself in the form of Fe.

Sorry i dont get it because my english arent so good :P.

 

[Jennywocky]

Why is it so difficult to know if your are Ti dom vs a Ne dom :P

Well, you're essentially comparing apples to oranges at that point.

It's easier to pick between T vs F (for judging functions) or S vs N (for perceiving functions) because you can look at what the priorities are or the scope of data focused upon.

But here, you're essentially trying to determine whether your judging function or your perceiving function is dominant. For people with one strong and one weak, that's not too hard; but for people who are similarly strong in both, it can be more difficult.

There are ways around that, because the primary is actually the foundation and the secondary supports it. So they can end up looking different. Does someone use their judging process to explore possibilities or do they use their perceiving process to test ideas? That's a bit simplistic of a way to say it, but it can help.

And you can try to triangulate using other functions as well. (For example, if you know whether you are introverted or extroverted, then you can determine whether you're INTP or ENTP regardless.) But typically there's a variety within groups, which can confuse someone if they don't manifest like someone else in that type.