GABA

[Seed-Wad]

Has anyone heard of this supplement / used it? Basically, it's an aminoacid that is used in the brain as a neurotransmitter (it is not used in protein construction like most other aminoacids) that seems to activate the 'resting' part of the brain (resting is not quite the right word, more like inhibiting, but my knowledge is a bit fuzzy on neuroscience).

I've been using it for quite some time now, and I'm amazed by what it can do.

I first tried it because I had difficulty sleeping well. I would go to bed tired and wake up even more tired. It worked well against that, but quickly I experienced some strange side effects.

I would become much more grounded in the present moment. I would sit on a cough and suddenly be captivated by the way a sunray hit the table, or become cought by a simple object like a glass, the way it fit in my hand. Googling the feeling I quickly found this book: Nausea, most amazing read of my life, and it described EXACTLY my experience.

I had been going to a therapist for quite some time then, about how everything felt fuzzy, unreal. How I couldn't stop analyzing everything and jump from thought to thought, how I would get stuck in my own racing thoughts whenever I was telling a story or having a discussion. Taking GABA, for the first time I felt some peace of mind, where I could just sit and take in the world around me without being pulled into my own thoughts again after mere seconds.

I was worried I would get addicted to it, but that didn't happen. Though, it feels as if it is less potent now, but I am sure that's just because I'm getting used to this new state of mind. Taking to much GABA will have the opposite effect (at least for me) and send you back the way you came from, which is actually a very nice way to keep yourself to the balance. Though I often forget to take my daily pill, as taking it daily isn't really necessary. Often, I am off the GABA for an entire week until I'm beginning to feel tired again, sleeping badly, and getting faded again, then I take a daily pill for a couple of days and automatically stop again (due to forgetting).

I advised it to my sister, as she slept badly as well, but it did nothing for her. Then again, she is quite a lot like me, but certainly no INTP.
From the web I learned it might work best if you have a natural state of GABA depletion. Being a supplement, it merely restocks your GABA reserves and not much else. Though, the knowledge of how taking GABA supplements actually works seems to be limited.

I found a lot of experiences of other people, almost all saying they either felt nothing or that it worked really well with no uncomfortable side effects.

That said, it didn't help at all with any of my interpersonal problems, it didn't change my personality at all, it just gave me some better sleep and a better ability to take in outerworld impulses, as opposed to the innerworld thoughts.

The pills come in different dosages, I have the 750mg by Source Naturals. You can get them at most webshops that sell supplements.
I don't have all the links anymore that I used to research this supplement, but I advise you to do your own research before trying it -- never trust a stranger

Spoiler

 

[Ink]

This sounds like it has the potential for some serious long term consequences

 

[Seed-Wad]

Like how?

 

[Ink]

It's messing with some not very well understood stuff in the brain

 

[Seed-Wad]

Hmm yes, perhaps. For me it wasn't really a choice whether to try something like this, anything at all.
Yours sounds a bit like an uninformed hunch though. There's an psychiatrist that my therapist knows that is looking into just that. I'll let you know as soon as I know more.

 

[Lot]

GABA is a nifty little supplement. I haven't personally used it, but have several friends that use it to help them fix their sleep cycle.

The only GABAergic drugs I've ever used were alcohol and valerian root. Most people like valerian for a sleep aid. It had the opposite effect on me. Although I stopped taking it, because it was starting to make me feel spacey and I wasn't able to drink alcohol without getting a migraine. Even one beer would kick my ass.

Do you find it hard to drink on GABA?

 

[Ink]

Yours sounds a bit like an uninformed hunch though.

yep

 

[Seed-Wad]

Do you find it hard to drink on GABA?

No, but I do have the idea that I behave more strangely, i.e. manic, if I take a pill and then directly start to drink till Im drunk, if there's a few hours between it it is OK.

Anyone ever forget they had taken painmedicine (paracetemol, ibuprofen) and then get drunk? Worst blackouts ever lol

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

[technically that is NOT an Amino Acid. Wikipedia, "Although chemically it is an amino acid, GABA is rarely referred to as such in the scientific or medical communities, because the term "amino acid," used without a qualifier, conventionally refers to the alpha amino acids, which GABA is not, nor is it ever incorporated into a protein."

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GABA

For one thing, the alpha Carbon and Nitrogen are too far away from eachother on the molecule for GABA for it to be an amino acid. As a supplement it sounds like it acts to regulate one or more neurological pathways involved with modulating the electrochemical gradients across the plasma membranes of nerve cells.

While not a deal breaker, its important to remain technically correct. Many a lawyer and snake salesman profits from such slights of hand (or the tongue or keyboard in this instance)]

its interesting to gather anecdotal evidence about the use (and/or abuse?) of this molecule. Please by all means carry on...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

GABA as a supplement does nothing because it doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier. Classic placebo effect.

You want relaxation? Go with harmala (which is an MAOI, so alter your diet accordingly to avoid headaches).

 

[Seed-Wad]

I can tell you, it's not a placebo effect. Of course, anyone on placebos would say that, but I think the effects are too strong, too specific to be caused by a placebo. Next to that, I knew not of the side effects (except for better sleep) that it had, side effects which, upon later investigation, others seem to have as well.

I know the blood-brain barrier is a tricky one for any chemical to pass. But what for the spine? (Honestly don't know). Just the fact that it doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier is not a reason to jump to the placebo conclusion.

edit: About the amino-acid thing. Perhaps the distance between the functional groups is too large for it to be an effective amino-acid, but it can still be classified as an amino-acid (within the chemical framework at least). It is reflected in the name: 4-aminobutanoic acid.
That said, as a bsc Food Chemist I mostly look at the polarity / size / acidity of a chemical and do not really know how small characteristics relate to everything, not that smart
Indeed it is good to be correct.

edit2: Always have had my reservations for MAOI and the like, does not seem healthy at all... I know little about it though.

 

[Brontosaurie]

You want relaxation? Go with harmala (which is an MAOI, so alter your diet accordingly to avoid headaches).

my trials with harmala produced either nothing or total sensory overload feedback delirium with tides of nausea. no grey area.

what effects would one be looking for on a therapeutic harmala dose?

medical SSRI/SNRI gave me no effects, for the record.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

...

edit: About the amino-acid thing. Perhaps the distance between the functional groups is too large for it to be an effective amino-acid, but it can still be classified as an amino-acid (within the chemical framework at least). It is reflected in the name: 4-aminobutanoic acid.
That said, as a bsc Food Chemist I mostly look at the polarity / size / acidity of a chemical and do not really know how small characteristics relate to everything, not that smart
Indeed it is good to be correct...

good points. interesting thread thanks for starting it.

looks like we are both right in either sense (I see your point about the formal name of the molecule incorporating the terms amino and acid), though I would argue (but of course, right?) that the term amino acid is generally used with the presumption that its in limited reference to the alpha amino acids which the ribosome uses to build polyproteins:

"...Amino acids having both the amine and carboxylic acid groups attached to the first (alpha-) carbon atom have particular importance in biochemistry. They are known as 2-, alpha-, or α-amino acids (generic formula H2NCHRCOOH in most cases[3] where R is an organic substituent known as a "side-chain");[4] often the term "amino acid" is used to refer specifically to these..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid

and thus implementation of the term Amino Acid carries with it the obligation to adhere to some level of technical correctness. There are a litany of molecules which present themselves with formal names which mention amino (reference to the nitrogen group) and acid (reference to the electrophile/ proton donor) in them...this is not enough though to be categorized as Amino Acids which term is reserved for the special class of molecules used by the cell in the biosynthesis of proteins (translation).

finally, you might be very smart...exhibition of smarts is directly proportional to interest and exposure (& at some point some basic underlying minimum IQ level must be present). What I mean is, aren't we all downright moronic in those things which we do not take a deep interest in or decidedly expose ourselves to? As it relates to Amino Acids, you may not have had the occasion, until this thread, to delve this deep into this particular idea. Just because I have, doesn't necessarily mean I am all that smart myself (doesn't mean I'm not, either LOL)

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

But what for the spine? (Honestly don't know). Just the fact that it doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier is not a reason to jump to the placebo conclusion.

edit2: Always have had my reservations for MAOI and the like, does not seem healthy at all... I know little about it though.

It's still the placebo effect, and the related experiences are due to synchronicity. I get the feeling you've only read reports from users instead of peer-reviewed studies. And I'm not jumping to a conclusion either lol. Scholar it.

There's also nothing in the spine that has anything to do with the experiences described. You're looking for possibilities, so congrats there, but no. Just no.

MAOI's are fine if you take the proper dietary precautions (avoiding.... amino acids lmfao. Specifically tyramine and tyrosine) and don't take conflicting meds. They've been used for thousands of years across the globe; a shamanic staple, really. And they do work and are active which is demonstrated by that whole they could kill you if you don't do blue thing.

However, harmala differs from prescribed MAOIs in that it's an inhibitor of MAO-A, while scripts inhibit both MAO-A and B. This makes it much more difficult to develop serotonin syndrome because B is still active to break down serotonin, yet B doesn't breakdown dopamine like A does. So you're giving yourself an increase in both dopamine and serotonin, but the former sticks around longer while the latter is decreased like air from a balloon.

So basically scripts are a lot more likely to kill you than harmala.

Spoiler

good points. interesting thread thanks for starting it.

finally, you might be very smart...exhibition of smarts is directly proportional to interest and exposure (& at some point some basic underlying minimum IQ level must be present). What I mean is, aren't we all downright moronic in those things which we do not take a deep interest in or decidedly expose ourselves to? As it relates to Amino Acids, you may not have had the occasion, until this thread, to delve this deep into this particular idea. Just because I have, doesn't necessarily mean I am all that smart myself (doesn't mean I'm not, either LOL)

You're shaming your moniker's reputation with all that niceness stuff, moron.

my trials with harmala produced either nothing or total sensory overload feedback delirium with tides of nausea. no grey area.

what effects would one be looking for on a therapeutic harmala dose?

medical SSRI/SNRI gave me no effects, for the record.

It's been fairly consistent with me the whole time.

A couple things.

1. Dose is important. I use 3-4 grams pulverized to death in a coffee grinder and just straight up eat the stuff. Ideally incorporated into some kind of flavor masker (cookies!!!), but I am at the point where a spoonful straight washed down with a drink doesn't bother me.

2. Quality. Old stuff would probably suck. Mine's airtight and ~60 degrees F.

3. Maybe you had something else in your system that produced the delirium? Sensory overload is common to a point, in that shit is noticed and experienced a lot more, but not to the point of delirium. Unless we're talking something with a -ahuasca suffix.

4. Maybe you should try a lower dose (say... 1g) combined with a small dose of levodopa. I actually have this available, just haven't tried it yet...

5. SSRI's have never done anything for me. SNRIs certainly have though... SNDRIs too, and NDRI's.

 

[Brontosaurie]

It's been fairly consistent with me the whole time.

A couple things.

1. Dose is important. I use 3-4 grams pulverized to death in a coffee grinder and just straight up eat the stuff. Ideally incorporated into some kind of flavor masker (cookies!!!), but I am at the point where a spoonful straight washed down with a drink doesn't bother me.

2. Quality. Old stuff would probably suck. Mine's airtight and ~60 degrees F.

3. Maybe you had something else in your system that produced the delirium? Sensory overload is common to a point, in that shit is noticed and experienced a lot more, but not to the point of delirium. Unless we're talking something with a -ahuasca suffix.

4. Maybe you should try a lower dose (say... 1g) combined with a small dose of levodopa. I actually have this available, just haven't tried it yet...

5. SSRI's have never done anything for me. SNRIs certainly have though... SNDRIs too, and NDRI's.

right.

1. i had harmala solo at doses of 4 grams (which produced delirium), 2 grams, and 1 grams, all powder. i also tried smoking it once.

2. yep, indeed it was one year fresher that one time when it took effect.

3. no. although at other times i took smaller amounts in conjunction with LSA/LSH (allegedly acetaldehyde converts LSA->LSH, dubious claims but at least the CWE removed much plant junk nausea). there wasn't the same delirium at all, just a marked accentuation of psychedelia.

4. i'm eager to try if i ever obtain harmala again. i'd like to have a worthwhile moderate inebriation or threshold nootropic effect but not such a vision quest kinda thing as last time (psychedelia is much better suited for that and not neurotoxic).

5. hmmm DRI sounds promising... hard to get i imagine. cocaine is one, right? but maybe there's a significant difference in mechanism of action between that and prescribed DRI's. apart from the fact they're NDRI's, of course. hmm google material.

i appreciate your time but my question sort of remains: what symptoms should be expected from an effective threshold to moderate dose? is it that heightened perceptual awareness which you hinted at in no. 3.? something else?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

i appreciate your time but my question sort of remains: what symptoms should be expected from an effective threshold to moderate dose? is it that heightened perceptual awareness which you hinted at in no. 3.? something else?

You should experience a body high that comes in waves, coupled with mild euphoria and... altered awareness. It's heightened in the sense that you experience things both normally and from an altered state simultaneously vs as more extreme. The urge to look around and observe is strong and uninhibited.

Perhaps this varies by MBTI type? 0.o

New favorite NDRI's are modafinil and ethylphenidate (Like ritalin+coke but lasts ~6 hours. Highly addictive though)...

 

[Beat Mango]

Benzos act on the neurotransmitter GABA. They're highly addictive.

I was worried I would get addicted to it, but that didn't happen. Though, it feels as if it is less potent now, but I am sure that's just because I'm getting used to this new state of mind.

Lol, really?

 

[Seed-Wad]

Lol, really?

Now I'm thinking that maybe the placebo effect is wearing off, but well, I'm undecided on that point. All in all, I'm not addicted. I'm addicted to cigarettes and coffee; I could tell.

GABA isn't a benzo. You mean the chemicals that influence the GABA-pathway, something entirely different.

@TheHabitatDoctor: Hmm, I think I will look into it, sounds quite interesting.

@DrGregoryHouse: Yep, you're totally right. It has to be hooked to the same carbon...

 

[Deleted member 1424]

I take Picamilon sometimes. It has the ability to cross the blood-brain barrier and then it hydrolyzes into GABA and niacin. My internet wanderings have lead me to conclude that it is far superior to straight GABA for my purposes.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I take Picamilon sometimes.

it is far superior to straight GABA

^Not the placebo effect.

 

[Cognisant]

The problem with taking a supplement is that it can undermine your body's own production and that's exactly what your side effects sound like to me, when the supplement wears off your body isn't producing the normal amount of inhibitory chemicals and so you're fascinated by stimuli that really isn't that interesting.

Not an unpleasant side effect, but remember those inahibatory mechanisms are there for a reason, if you're not as focused as you should be you won't be using your brain to it's full potential (rather using it poorly) which down the track may result in that sometimes-annoying stoner personality, y'know when you're talking to a guy and he isn't exactly slow but you still need patience, be careful or someday that guy will be you.

 

[Beat Mango]

Now I'm thinking that maybe the placebo effect is wearing off, but well, I'm undecided on that point. All in all, I'm not addicted. I'm addicted to cigarettes and coffee; I could tell.

GABA isn't a benzo. You mean the chemicals that influence the GABA-pathway, something entirely different.

@TheHabitatDoctor: Hmm, I think I will look into it, sounds quite interesting.

@DrGregoryHouse: Yep, you're totally right. It has to be hooked to the same carbon...

Fair enough. I smoke occasionally but strangely don't get addicted. I get thoroughly addicted to sugar and caffeine.