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How important is college?

Mello

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Is it really necessary to get into a top tier college or just a basic one to get a good job? My parents being Asian are like go to HARVARD ya bitch. Me being an INTP ask what's wrong with just going to a basic one? Isn't it more about the individual? Then, they don't give a good retort. They take it personally.... I want to do good, but I just wanted see all the possibilities. They think I don't want to do good... ughh... so annoying. My dad is an INTJ, mother is ESTJ and sister ESFJ. I am pretty sure that is there is types.
 

Words

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Well on my own subjective atmosphere, college is a direct energy source for preventing boredom; A place of learning both the social and mental aspects of reality.

Objectively, it's the energy source of money>power>possibilities.

And in connection, Harvard, a great school it is, is one of the top "gasoline stations" that will fuel perhaps the most possibilities---which is, as I understand, your liking?



I have not reach this level of schooling though. I have no experience of it except what I see in the media. Still, it seems apparent.
 

Philosophyking87

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Is it really necessary to get into a top tier college or just a basic one to get a good job? My parents being Asian are like go to HARVARD ya bitch. Me being an INTP ask what's wrong with just going to a basic one? Isn't it more about the individual? Then, they don't give a good retort. They take it personally.... I want to do good, but I just wanted see all the possibilities. They think I don't want to do good... ughh... so annoying. My dad is an INTJ, mother is ESTJ and sister ESFJ. I am pretty sure that is there is types.

I would think that it's not really a big deal, in the long run. They just want the pride that comes from knowing their son/daughter is attending a prestigious institution so that, most likely, they can look good in front of all of their friends and anyone they might meet in society. "Yes, in fact, my son is attending Harvard, Charles. We're so proud of him."

I really think that if you're very assertive, higher institutions with more prestige are a great thing. But most INTPs (supposedly) aren't assertive, just behind INFPs (the supposed most unassertive type of all). At any rate, I don't think there's anything wrong with a lower state college. They seem to teach well, so that their students can actually get jobs without struggling to maintain crazy GPAs and waste a ridiculous amount of money.

Being an INTP, I think it's a cool thing to just hang low and actually learn something you want to learn, instead of becoming what everyone else wants you to become, as you said, it's all about the individual. If you don't find a personal need to go to a school like Harvard, don't. Do what you want.
I don't think it really matters at all, unless you want to become a world leader.

But then again, most INTPs don't anyway. We prefer staying in the background.
We'll just learn a bunch of stuff, get a job, and then change society through out thoughts, which will affect others.
 

Philosophyking87

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Well on my own subjective atmosphere, college is a direct energy source for preventing boredom; A place of learning both the social and mental aspects of reality.

Objectively, it's the energy source of money>power>possibilities.

And in connection, Harvard, a great school it is, is one of the top "gasoline stations" that will fuel perhaps the most possibilities---which is, as I understand, your liking?



I have not reach this level of schooling though. I have no experience of it except what I see in the media. Still, it seems apparent.

It all depends how assertive a person is and what their goals/values are.
I'm not very assertive and would've enjoyed going to a prestigious school, but it's not really a huge deal when you step back and really think about it.

There are many paths to life. It's all up to you to choose.
Do you want to work hard and achieve prestige?
Or, do you want to take life a bit easier and still get by with enough knowledge to actually make some changes from a more remote position in society?

It's all subjective.
 

ckm

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What defines a "good job", and why do you want one?
 

Words

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It all depends how assertive a person is and what their goals/values are.
I'm not very assertive and would've enjoyed going to a prestigious school, but it's not really a huge deal when you step back and really think about it.

There are many paths to life. It's all up to you to choose.
Do you want to work hard and achieve prestige?
Or, do you want to take life a bit easier and still get by with enough knowledge to actually make some changes from a more remote position in society?

It's all subjective.

It's just an equation directed on what's what, it disregards preference. Better School = better opportunities = more money = more possibilities. at least by tendency.

"Prestige" and "status" can be converted to power of influence. Influence allows position. And that allows greater selection of study and/or freedom.

that's if a person prefers more choices, which I'm assuming this person does...

----

As an individual human, power determines possibilities.

As an INTP, you can get the best tools, best research facilities, best assistants to maximize the satisfaction of your curiosity
 

unhinged

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Going to a top tier school can make a hell of a difference. Of course depending on what you there, it might not make any difference at all or might actually be worse...

Just a few things that come to mind:

1. From the point of view of learning: Since there is much more competition for the faculty positions at top tier schools, overall they would have better faculty than other schools. Would you rather study from the guy who wrote the book you are studying or the guy who hasn't even read the book properly (this has actually happened to me.. :( )? Of course this won't always be true, but I think it does hold for most cases.

2. From the point of view of future prospects:
a. If you're planning on going to grad school: The faculty at a top tier school would be more active in research and would have a lot of contacts at other good universities (making it easier to get in if you impress the faculty at your undergrad school). You would have opportunities to engage in research and get valuable experience. Also a recommendation from the faculty would help you more (since more people would know of them).

b. If you're going to go into the industry: Many companies favor you if you are coming from a brand name college. Also your fellow students would probably end up working for great companies (or starting their own). In either case knowing people in power helps a lot...
 

nim

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Of course, there's always the obvious question: Will Harvard take you? If Harvard won't accept your application, then there's no way you're going to get in there, anyway.

:slashnew:
 

EditorOne

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And, after all that, there's still the socialization that college brings, which INTPs probably could use some practice with.

Basics: It's four or more years in which you get to learn about stuff, including yourself. It's really hard to say what's a good school and what's not, but probably there's some truth to this: If you regard it as just getting your ticket punched, you'll get less out of it than if you embrace it and suck it dry of its potential, including the potential to hone your already strong abilities to reason, exercise critical thinking, and figure things out, while at the same time getting better at some of the things you might not be quite so good at, like reading people accurately, understanding why they think stupid things (to us) matter, etc.

I'm thinking INTPs might not do as well at a big school like Harvard, especially with all those Alpha types screeching around. Too easy to just disappear, meet the minimum academically, and come away soured.

If I had it to do over again, which I don't, I'd go to Bowdoin in Maine, with Haverford outside Philly as second choice and joining the Navy as third choice. Hindsight is a wonderful, bittersweet thing. :)
 

Mello

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Hmm... thanks for the input. I still have time to think about this, for now.
 

Philosophyking87

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It's just an equation directed on what's what, it disregards preference. Better School = better opportunities = more money = more possibilities. at least by tendency.

"Prestige" and "status" can be converted to power of influence. Influence allows position. And that allows greater selection of study and/or freedom.

that's if a person prefers more choices, which I'm assuming this person does...

----

As an individual human, power determines possibilities.

As an INTP, you can get the best tools, best research facilities, best assistants to maximize the satisfaction of your curiosity

But you don't always need prestige or status or a really awesome job to be free, or even to feel free. Hence, the lack of real necessity in this matter. Hence, preference.
 

Philosophyking87

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Of course, there's always the obvious question: Will Harvard take you? If Harvard won't accept your application, then there's no way you're going to get in there, anyway.

:slashnew:

Moot point indeed.
 

Words

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But you don't always need prestige or status or a really awesome job to be free, or even to feel free.

I fail to understand. I can see obligations and illusory attachments of yourself towards prestige that might trick yourself into "imprisonment" and, therefore, less freedom but is it more freedom to be able to afford something of higher quality than average?

We are following the subjective desire of freedom by the way. And from what I can see using that standard is that an "awesome job" is not more awesome than a more "awesome job". (which is, as defined for now, determined by power)

Hence, the lack of real necessity in this matter. Hence, preference.

Perhaps not a necessity but instead what could be a better option. Though there are many other factors that should be involved in this "better option", I see "prestigious jobs" generally catering more than their less than prestigious counterparts.

I just realized how materialistic I sound. Still...
 

Polaris

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Is it really necessary to get into a top tier college or just a basic one to get a good job? My parents being Asian are like go to HARVARD ya bitch. Me being an INTP ask what's wrong with just going to a basic one? Isn't it more about the individual?

Another subjective view, if that helps at all. You need to go to whichever college for your own good reasons. Your parents think they want the best for you, but from what you are saying, it sounds as if they want the prestige for themselves more than anything. You are your own person, not anyone else's. If you go with their wishes, you may regret it later. Then again, you may regret anything you do at this time in your life. It is hard to decide on a career path, if you do not know exactly what it is you would like to do. As you said (and the answer lies within your words), "isn't it more about the individual", and "but I just wanted to see all possibilities". That is a fairly strong voice speaking to you there.......

Then, they don't give a good retort. They take it personally.... I want to do good, but I just wanted see all the possibilities. They think I don't want to do good... ughh... so annoying. My dad is an INTJ, mother is ESTJ and sister ESFJ. I am pretty sure that is there is types.
It takes a lot of strenght to go against parent's wishes, especially in some cultures. I understand your predicament. I listened to my mother too much, and wish I hadn't........(hindsight, etc, as Editor pointed out.....).

You can be brave and go your own way, but you may carry your parent's resentment......it isn't fair.

As far as prestigeous institutions.....I think it is possible to achieve whatever you want if you are clever enough....the institution may be a catalyst for opportunities.....but at the end of the day it is up to you. If you have the drive, you will get there. I have changed from a high-status university to a lesser status one by choice. The difference is quite remarkable. The quality of the lecturers here is significantly higher than for the other university. Being a smaller institution, I get to have more interaction with my lecturers, and they really care that I do well. On the downside, the subjects are not as challenging as I would have liked, the other institutions pace was gruelling, compared to this one. I kind of enjoy that, for strangely masochistical reasons.....:confused:

There will always be pros and cons. Just make sure the pros outweigh the latter.
 

Philosophyking87

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I fail to understand. I can see obligations and illusory attachments of yourself towards prestige that might trick yourself into "imprisonment" and, therefore, less freedom but is it more freedom to be able to afford something of higher quality than average?

We are following the subjective desire of freedom by the way. And from what I can see using that standard is that an "awesome job" is not more awesome than a more "awesome job". (which is, as defined for now, determined by power)



Perhaps not a necessity but instead what could be a better option. Though there are many other factors that should be involved in this "better option", I see "prestigious jobs" generally catering more than their less than prestigious counterparts.

I just realized how materialistic I sound. Still...

No. Freedom doesn't really have anything to do with what you can buy and what you cannot buy (in terms of quality). Surely, if your extremely poor you're going to feel like you don't have freedom or control over your life, because you can't buy a damn thing when you're poor. Hence, if you have an autonomous nature, you might feel trapped. Although, if you're somewhere in the middle class section of society, you'll be able to accumulate enough money without busting your balls to get into a prestigious college, or to impress enough people with your massive amount of degrees in order to get a great job. With this moderate amount of income, you can basically do a large portion of the things you want.

Thus, my first set of points are basically this: only if you're an extremely poor, third-class citizen should you be worrying about your economic, or socioeconomic, sense of freedom, because the working class hasn't the money to do a damn thing, generally. They just work, pay bills, and work. The second class, however, can live a moderately enjoyable life without the ample affluence which allows some people to own five mansions and ten cars. In other words, you don't need five yachts and a Hummer for every one of your kids to be happy.

Thus:
1. Third-class = socioeconomically imprisoned
2. Second class = socioeconomically satisfied
3. First class = socioeconomically spoiled

Another point is that INTPs probably don't generally value excess and unnecessary commodities. We are simple people who are happy so long as we can work on a theory or discuss something with intelligent people every other day for a living. We're also usually philosophical, which would allow us to realize that—ultimately—social prestige and redundant amounts of wealth aren't really the entire point of life. For some, it may be; but just being relatively free (socioeconomically) and allowed to work in some kind of academic setting or artistic setting is usually enough for many INTPs to be happy.

Thus, I don't really see how prestigious colleges are necessary. Surely, if you can get in, go for it (not because you'll be fucked if you don't, but because you'll generally get a better education and then a more esteemed job which will allow you to deal with matters in a much more sophisticated and professional manner (as the higher your degree, the larger the work you can actually deal with). And this brings me to my last point: INTPs generally value learning for either the fun of it (learning just to learn out of the insatiable need to acquire knowledge, as most NT rationals) or because we want enough knowledge in a particular area to satisfy our crave of theory and system-building and various kinds of design. Thus, an INTP will usually acquire degrees NOT to impress a bunch of potential employers but to actually learn material which they honestly value from a personal perspective.

Thus, if INTPs generally place more emphasis on learning than the symbolic value of their degrees, they really would be satisfied with a decent state college which would allow them to become something relative in their community which then would allow them to live happily on a modest income which would lead to a modest socioeconomic condition sufficient for happy living and enough personal freedom. Also, if you're good enough at something, going to a prestigious college and amassing many degrees won't necessarily matter; if you're good enough at something, you'll be recognized eventually and opportunities will arise on their own.

Thus, I think it's a pit to fall into the entire idea that you should only really get a job for the amount of money it pays and earn degrees so you can get a job that pays a lot of money. Focusing on what you're LEARNING and how that learning will lead you into a job right for your personality type is really all that matters. Do you enjoy the material you're learning? Are you going to enjoy the career area you've chosen? Will enjoy your job? This is all that really matters and going to a prestigious college doesn't really address either of these. Hence, I think it's unnecessary but a great thing if you can get into one. Thus, there's no "I GOTTA GO TO PRINCETON OR I'M A FAILURE." That sort of thinking is ridiculous. There's no need to go to these colleges in order to be happy. Simple as that.

Although, some people do value more than learning and a decent job and for those people, going to a prestigious college might be necessary from a personal, subjective perspective. And to them I say "go for it." But just because some people think attending prestigious colleges is necessary doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept it as some kind of fact. It's not necessary, necessarily. Some of us will be happy with a modest life; some of us won't. Simple as that, too.
 

Words

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Um, I agree but I'm not sure if you were addressing the same subject I concentrated on.

But anyways..

3. First class = socioeconomically spoiled

I would doubt an INTP would fall easy in this one. If "prestigious objects" aren't a thing of great value for INTP's , then there is not much to spoil. And the addition of INTP's being, as you say, philosophical would factor in them being more immune to this "disease".

Unless, of course, learning more through the use of easier access of information or high-tech expensive equipment = spoiled.

There is also laziness...and a possible lack of exercise but that's a problem of the person, not the wealth.

---

In conclusion, we go to "prestigious" schools, not because of its "prestigiousness" but because it's a factor on how much we can fully develop our supposed "natural" skills---which is.. some would say, our life's purpose(:heh:).

And because of this objective fact of tendency of greater freedom by prestige, It is better to go to Harvard than not.

To some, perhaps "prestige" could bolster confidence but also ego. I'm not sure how much that would factor in...
 

Philosophyking87

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Also, here's another point. If you go to a big college, you'll have to work very hard (not free, more like a working slave) just to become very wealthy later on and have too much money to do anything with. If you attend a moderate college, you'll work moderately and have a moderately happy life with a moderately happy job (satisfied). If you don't attend college at all, you'll basically struggle to survive (unless you're great at something which doesn't require a degree). =p

Hence, deciding to attending a big college or a state college comes down to a person's personal preference.
The only thing that's necessary is "Attending college" at all. Or, "attending A college." And some people would argue that THAT'S not even necessary. lol!!!
 

Words

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I would think that the span of after-college is longer than college life itself.

And I don't believe that there is such a thing as "too much money". How much money do researchers today need? How many child starves? How many inventions need financial support?
 

EditorOne

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"Also, here's another point. If you go to a big college, you'll have to work very hard (not free, more like a working slave) just to become very wealthy later on and have too much money to do anything with."

Only if you pay for it all yourself with college loans. There are tons of scholarship out there that I'd bet most of the high school students on here aren't aware of, everything from the local rotary to your state teacher's association. Scholarships for need, scholarships for academic achievement, scholarships for extracurricular activities leading to a college path, scholarships just writing an essay on why democracy is good or whatever.

Here's the thing: You need to go hammer on some doors to find out about them. Your first stop is your high school counseling office, and you need to be politely persistent, reaching deep for some E and some F. My experience on this has two important aspects:

1. If you are an INTP you are probably not the most approachable person in your high school, you may even be known as Weird Harold or whatever, whereas those despicable braying extroverts are all in there brownnosing in their cheerleader outfits while you're being too wrapped up in yourself to even realize they are harvesting a fortune in scholarships with tips from those counseling folks.
2. Counseling folks, being part of the school system and therefore irrevocably part of the local power structure, have been known to reach out first to students of important people in the community to alert them to things like the Kiwanis, Rotary, Bar Association, local industry, etc. scholarships. And some professional organizations have scholarships for people pursuing degrees in those fields, but since none of us know what we want to be when we grow up, that's a problem over and above those counselors brownnosing the local power structure by sending their kids where the money is. (Not all counselors do, but it is worth being aware of the possibilities. I remember being surprised, at graduation, at who got scholarships I hadn't even known existed. Obviously that memory rankled, because it stuck with me.)

Colleges themselves, and believe it or not, churches, also have scholarships, usually based on financial need coupled with some kind of minimum performance expectation.

Folks, this is one time it pays to get with the program. There are people out there who are on full rides to Harvard, UCLA, Stanford, whatever, let alone Bowdoin or Marycrest or whatever.
 

Words

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I wonder why scholarships exist. How can you profit by sponsoring students?

EDIT: Forgot the Internet.
 

EditorOne

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"I wonder why scholarships exist. How can you profit by sponsoring students?"

If you are a huge company short on biochemical engineers for your human genome projects and know it's a field short of upcoming graduates, it behooves you to create a scholarship for such folks. It is also a business expense and can reduce your taxes.

If you are a charitable organization to begin with, helping people one way or another is why you exist. A scholarship is merely one form of help.

If you are a rich person, you may also be a nice, rich person who wants to help young people, much as I enjoy sharing the sad stories of my "I-didn't-know-I-was-an-INTP-I-thought-I-was-broken" youth, so people like me don't have to hit every rock in the road I discovered the hard way. IF I had any money maybe I'd start up a scholarship fund just for INTPs.

If you are rich but not nice, setting up scholarship may still be something you wish to do, either for the direct tax advantages or for the esteem of the community or in remembrance of a relative or someone who influenced your life in a positive way.

If you are not all that rich while alive but might leave behind quite an estate when you're dead, you might set up a legacy scholarship so your name lives on. In my home town there is still an Elmer Smith scholarship for graduates of our elementary school who wish to pursue engineering degrees. Elmer Smith was an engineer -- in 1920. But that scholarship still gets awarded every year out of the endowment created when his estate was liquidated at the time of his death.

Those are some of the reasons why people create scholarships.
 

Vrecknidj

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My advice...

1) Go to the best school you can.

2) If you don't get into the school you wanted to get into, find the best teachers at the school you do end up in, and take their classes.

Dave
 

jeanleryml

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College is the most important factor of having a successful life. I admit that being in highest standard schools can get an attention of having more opportunities after. In my own outlook, college provides all the quality education a graduate must have.
 

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Well, I think it depends on major. With an I.T. job it is very important because the field is constantly in flux. Also, Psychology, Sociology, and those "soft sciences" for the same reason - but to a lesser extent. However, college may be less important for something like English or (paradoxially) History because those fields are relatively static.

It really depends what one wants to do. To become a professor, it is obviously vital to attend (a decent) university. Going back to English, if one has a passion for writing, not that important. Kurt Vonnegut, if my memory serves me, thought his time at Cornell was a complete waste and he should have been writing instead. To each his own...:elephant:
 

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What is College? College is a key to success in life. Why is College Education such an important these days? In order to success in life with little or no struggles financially one has to go to college to get an education that will lead them later on to an Career of their choice. A two- or four- year college degree is becoming more and more important to unlocking doors to economic and educational opportunity in America today. But in order for college to become an reality, a student and his parents must have a plan that will lead the student to success in High School and any other schools before hand. Having a plan, knowing how much you must and can do to get to your goal of going to college will make it much easier and will give you the knowledge and skills required to get to college. Since the world is quickly advancing college is becoming more and more of an requirement or necessity.
If you are still asking yourself why should you go to college, it is important to remember the significant amount of opportunity available for college graduates. The global economy is becoming increasingly more competitive, and in order to give yourself the best chance for a well-paying job, you must first understand the importance of college education.
Attending college provides students with the knowledge and experience they are unable to receive from a secondary education, and finding a way to fund a higher education now can pay off in a huge way in the years to come.
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