How much cognitive ability do we lose over time as we age?

[HDINTP]

http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/201...itive-ability-do-we-lose-over-time-as-we-age/

What do you think about it?

I would just say now I do not worry about my fluid intelligence that much anymore.

 

[Architect]

Actually your neuronal connections peak before the age of 3, at which point a mass extinction occurs and you lose, I forget but something like more than 50% of the connections in your brain, never to be reached again. So brain mass, or more importantly the connectome peaks early and is never the same. However clearly we gain in cognitive abilities, from which we can conclude that the brain and the connectome gross size is not important for intelligence.

There is a small correlation (not a causation however) that brain size does correlate with greater intelligence. However having a large brain doesn't mean you'll be smarter. Take that for what you will.

 

[snafupants]

There is a small correlation (not a causation however) that brain size does correlate with greater intelligence. However having a large brain doesn't mean you'll be smarter. Take that for what you will.

There might be a modest correlation. It seems, though, that leviathan brain size would mean greater chance for inefficiency, longer time in relaying signals, and greater need for brain fuel. There's probably an issue of diminishing returns at some point.

It's also obvious that bees, deer, giraffes, or squirrels will never appreciate Faulkner or paint the Sistine Chapel. Only in Disney films kids.

In terms of aging, finding novel stimulation, some exercise, protecting myelin sheath, decent diet, and sidestepping or neutralizing free radical damage might be most important.

 

[Niclmaki]

That is interesting. But I think the brain is a "use it, or lose it" deal.

 

[snafupants]

That is interesting. But I think the brain is a "use it, or lose it" deal.

Sure it is - that's been shown with mice in enriched versus impoverished environments.

That's why novel stimulation is so important!

I'm not sure your girlfriend would feel the same way though.

 

[Niclmaki]

Sure it is - that's been shown with mice in enriched versus impoverished environments.

That's why novel stimulation is so important!

I'm not sure your girlfriend would feel the same way though.

Hahahaha, "hey I think we need to make sure we get enough novel stimulation." If I had a girlfriend I would have to deliver this line.

 

[snafupants]

Hahahaha, "hey I think we need to make sure we get enough novel stimulation." If I had a girlfriend I would have to deliver this line.

Such an invitation would probably earn me the boot rather than permission to finish on her back or wrangle something cool like a three way with her estranged sister.

 

[BigApplePi]

"use it, or lose it" makes sense. I wonder why there is not so much mention of this as a factor? My formal reasoning ability has gone down but I've not been practicing it. My memory is not nearly as okay as when I was in school. But then I was trying to learn formal things by request not interest. Now I don't need to learn what I don't want to. Also when I hear things spoken by others I recall much better than when I read something. For example I find the "fluid" vs "crystal" terms terrible for me. Why would I want to learn those terms when others are better? They don't connect like reasoning vs knowledge or experience. So I have trouble recalling which is which. My ability to connect things is far better as I age. This is because I have knowledge and am motivated to connect. These things should blur what images of the brain seem to prove. (Correlation not causation.)

If the brain loses mass what is that compared to what is left? Do we now have more connections or less? Depends on what we're doing. As we age don't we become more conservative and fixed in our interests? In my case my friends and interests are more fixed ... less subject to random or risky or disinterested topics. So wouldn't I lose out on intellectual practice in those areas?

 

[Niclmaki]

I think the "less mass means less ability" is like saying, a computer that has 100 TB of memory when I first got it now has 92.5 TB of usable memory left. Therefore, it has gotten worse.

Roughly speaking of course. Even if we lose some part where something was stored in our brain another part will "pick up" what it had before. Kind of something like phantom pain. I'm sorry, but I cannot recall for the life of me where I heard this.

 

[snafupants]

In my case my friends and interests are more fixed ... less subject to random or risky or disinterested topics. So wouldn't I lose out on intellectual practice in those areas?

Certain granule cells in the hippocampus flip from predominately learning in early life to recalling in later life. It's clearly more complex though.

 

[scorpiomover]

Studies showed that IQ increases by an average of 10 points, between age 11 and old age.

Mind you, the main difference between 15-year-olds and 18-year-olds, is that you lose a LOT of neural connections between 15 & 18. So if losing parts of your brain indicates that you lose cognitive ability, then 15-year-olds are waaaaaay smarter than 18-year-olds. NOT.

 

[snafupants]

Studies showed that IQ increases by an average of 10 points, between age 11 and old age.

For the record, processing speed and fluid intelligence (and working memory) and more hit than crystallized intelligence, especially within the ambit of midlife, but processing speed peaks around age twenty and fluid intelligence peaks around age twenty five.

Crystallized intelligence has, in fact, been shown to improve through midlife. People tend to learn more words over time - who would have thought?

 

[scorpiomover]

For the record, processing speed and fluid intelligence (and working memory) and more hit than crystallized intelligence, especially within the ambit of midlife, but processing speed peaks around age twenty and fluid intelligence peaks around age twenty five.

Yes. Fast-thinking skills are common in the young. Old-people seem to have them as well, but find them highly unreliable, and so prefer the ones that need more time to process. Seems that decisions made in haste, tend to have a high probability of being highly inaccurate.

[Crystallized intelligence has, in fact, been shown to improve through midlife. People tend to learn more words over time - who would have thought?

Everyone who spent time with older people. Which only goes to question why anyone thought differently in the first place? AFAIK, in Asia, they respect their elders as being wiser and more experienced than they are. What happened here, to make us all think against the evidence? Or are we just morons, compared to the Chinese?

 

[snafupants]

Yes. Fast-thinking skills are common in the young. Old-people seem to have them as well, but find them highly unreliable, and so prefer the ones that need more time to process. Seems that decisions made in haste, tend to have a high probability of being highly inaccurate.

@scorpiomover

There's obviously an inverse relationship between speed and accuracy. I agree.

Then again, an idiot (even with infinite time) perhaps will never achieve the correct answer.

Everyone who spent time with older people. Which only goes to question why anyone thought differently in the first place? AFAIK, in Asia, they respect their elders as being wiser and more experienced than they are. What happened here, to make us all think against the evidence? Or are we just morons, compared to the Chinese?

I guess Japanese culture values tradition, wisdom, and collectivism more. Western culture tends to be more materialistic, individualistic, and youth worshiping.

In parts of the East, you're viewed as an arrogant buffoon for showing someone up in public and not allowing them to save face. That's the opposite of the United States. During presidential debates, for example, the media drools over an instance of one candidate putting the other guy down.

Longevity promoters like ginseng and reishi are revered in Japan but the concept of prudently protecting future health doesn't really translate to stateside mentalities. This Dud's for you, America.

Additionally, many Eastern cultures focus on achievement and diligence. The West focuses on fun and instant gratification. Of course these are generalizations but there's some truth to them as well.

George Carlin was right in saying Americans only possess the semblance of choice. Everything is sanitized and preordained here. Having said that, even though things like social mobility are declining, there's relatively more freedom in some sectors like access to information. It's not quite Sharia Law yet.

 

[Solitaire U.]

I read the article. My personal reactions differ somewhat.

My own cognitive functions seem a lot more efficient and generally sharp now than they ever did in the past (I'm 44). My perceptual speed actually seems significantly faster than it did at 25. I seem to process incoming 'data' streams a lot more efficiently and rapidly than I did in my 20's. I chalk it up to raw experience and practice practice practice.

But I don't doubt that when the hardware ages another thirty years or so, it'll start slowing down, perhaps significantly.

 

[snafupants]

I read the article. My personal reactions differ somewhat.

My own cognitive functions seem a lot more efficient and generally sharp now than they ever did in the past (I'm 44). My perceptual speed actually seems significantly faster than it did at 25. I seem to process incoming 'data' streams a lot more efficiently and rapidly than I did in my 20's. I chalk it up to raw experience and practice practice practice.

But I don't doubt that when the hardware ages another thirty years or so, it'll start slowing down, perhaps significantly.

@Solitaire U.

There's also the issue of ecological validity to clinical findings. In other words, some discrete processing speed subtests might not extrapolate to real world experiences. I might contend that they, in fact, do not apply outward. Processing speed has always been relatively orthogonal to g in factor analysis and indexes have even been created to sidestep processing speed's impact on overall IQ score - i.e., the GAI and the WAIS. Processing speed seems embedded in other cognitive processes anyway. This makes intuitive sense - someone will not have the ability to peruse and retain huge swaths of material without adequate speed or prodigious memory. Also, smart people tend to comprehend complex concepts more quickly than their duller peers.

 

[scorpiomover]

There's obviously an inverse relationship between speed and accuracy. I agree.

Then again, an idiot (even with infinite time) perhaps will never achieve the correct answer. There is an oft-stated hypothetical thought experiment, that 1,000 monkeys randomly pressing keys on a typewriter, will eventually come up with Shakespeare's complete works.

IME, what is more likely, is that the idiot will give up, way before he gets the answer, and thus, time is the major factor.

I guess Japanese culture values tradition, wisdom, and collectivism more. Western culture tends to be more materialistic, individualistic, and youth worshiping.

Reminds me of the episode of Monkey (based on the Chinese Novel "Journey to the West") and the King of Youth. The King of Youth tried to make himself the most powerful king of the land, and treated the old kings very badly. Eventually, they ganged up, ambushed him, and imprisoned him. I think it's probably stories like this, that make Asians more keen on valuing their elders. They know that it's in their interest, not to push their own desires too much.

In parts of the East, you're viewed as an arrogant buffoon for showing someone up in public and not allowing them to save face. That's the opposite of the United States. During presidential debates, for example, the media drools over an instance of one candidate putting the other guy down.

Longevity promoters like ginseng and reishi are revered in Japan but the concept of prudently protecting future health doesn't really translate to stateside mentalities. This Dud's for you, America.

Additionally, many Eastern cultures focus on achievement and diligence. The West focuses on fun and instant gratification. Of course these are generalizations but there's some truth to them as well.

A lot of this stems from Buddhism and Confucianism, both of which represent practical philosophical systems. Basically, doing what makes sense.

George Carlin was right in saying Americans only possess the semblance of choice.

Reminds me of when the Architect says that to get humans to accept the Matrix, all humans must have a semblance of choice, even on an almost completely subconscious level.

Everything is sanitized and preordained here.

Which is contradictory to the notion of choice.