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I Can't Seem To Live Within the System

Kev

Redshirt
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Today 2:18 AM
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Jan 25, 2011
Messages
11
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Location
Colorado, USA
I'm still somewhat new, so if this is in the wrong place, or there is a better section of the forums for it, feel free to move it and ridicule me.;)

Lately I've been looking at some of the core "problems," defining characteristics, and habits that define me. Understanding why I am the way I am is the next step I'm taking in applying my conceptual knowledge of my INTPness in a more practical (how uncharacteristic of me) way.

1. Sleep: I have the most absurd sleep schedule of anyone I know. It's 04:30 now, and I probably won't go to sleep until 05:00, and then sleep until 14:30. Last night I went to bed at 20:00 and slept until 15:00 the following day. In the past there were times when I would stay up for two days at a time and just sleep extra long to catch up. I'm also chronically fatigued.

I thought it might have been a sleeping disorder.
Then I thought it might be phase delayed sleep disorder.
I thought it might be depression.

My new theory is that, the incompatibility with my involuntary daily life and my personality have created a sort of night life in which I extend each day to be way longer than normal in order to try to fit in all the things my personality demands.


To state it more clearly and give an example: I have a very boring job, working with customers, with whom I have unstimulating, repetitive 15 second discussions, or performing repetitive unskilled tasks. Basically, it's a step above a WalMart greeter. This job may be stimulating for some. I know people who are very chatty and people oriented, who love interacting with customers in this way. I don't. This time is “lost time” for me. I basically sell my employer 8 hours of my day in exchange for a wage that won't even feed me. There are no jobs available to me that fulfill my needs as an INTP, which is why I've become a drunken philosopher and revolutionary by night. Night time is when I am able to be creative, to follow whims of the intellect, to apply problem solving skills and logic in the ways a job appropriate to my personality would facilitate. My interest in traffic engineering has driven me to generate hundreds and hundreds of pages of designs and ideas, none of which are wanted by anyone but me. I have solved world hunger a thousand times over in my head, but the only place society has for me is behind the counter at a motherfucking McDonalds blowing customers. I think in some ways it's similar to those Japanese shut-ins you hear about. Apparently young people are locking themselves away in their rooms for months at a time coming out only to eat. I am locking myself in my own mind because the world doesn't want me unless I change to suit it; to become dull, repetitive, and ignorant.


If I was religious, I would claim to be the reincarnation of Karl Marx, Peter Kropotkin, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Huey Newton, Che Guevara, etc. all in one person. Yet I am forced into the role of worker ant, forced to adopt a role that is unfitting of me. I don't have anyone who understands my ideas, and my potential, except the Internet. My emotional, and relation retardation (self-declared) have seen to that. Sometimes I think that I am destined to be just like those who went before me. Think of all the brilliant philosophers, composers, and authors who became so involved in their work that they lost contact with the outside world, forgot to eat, drank more whiskey than a ship full of sailors, lost themselves in their art. Daily I find myself pulled in this direction. I can't keep regular meals worth shit. I eat when I get hungry, and I'm usually not patient enough to wait until I'm done cooking, I have to eat while I cook. I regularly find myself thrown into introspective fits, like the one I seem to be having now, and sometimes try to block them out by drinking excessively. Nicotine used to be my way of feeling “up” for a little while, but I finally managed to quit that (it's been over a month now)
I don't see a positive future for me. Perhaps I'll die lonely and alone and penniless like Mozart or perhaps I'll be martyred by an oppressive regime for refusing to compromise my ideals. Perhaps I'll die mentally and live my life as a miserable shell, going through the motions, but doing so on instinct while my mind stagnates and rots like fresh fish left in a hot car on a summer day. Perhaps, I'll lose my job or quit and end up on the street with all the other homeless. Perhaps, that would be the closest to happiness I'll ever get. Perhaps I'll join a commune of like-minded people, if such a group exists, and disappear into the backwoods of Oregon and live out the rest of my life talking philosophy in the nude. I could do the train riding thing. I almost did it last summer. I was sick of my life and the way it was going, and I was unbelievably close to leaving. I was sitting under a bridge north of the freight yard with my backpack watching the trains slowly go by one by one thinking about where they might be going and which one I should jump on. It was only the loneliness of knowing it would be a solitary journey that kept me here. I had a habit, before gas prices went up, of driving around randomly. I wouldn't navigate by roads or routes, but rather by compass directions and interest. If I saw an interesting road I took it. Some of these trips were hundreds of miles long. Driving sometimes helps me relax. I would just drive north along the mountains until I found an interesting canyon or other road heading west and then drive along random dirt roads through the mountains bearing slowly south west where I knew I would eventually hit a more important highway I could follow back to town. I resent the structure of the daytime. The prescribed pace of life. I have created freedom in the night, but I am not free. Meh, it's 05:30 now. I could stay up, but others will be up soon, and if I'm discovered to be awake, surely I'll be asked to participate in the dull, repetitions, ignorant torrent of shit that passes for life these days.


If you actually read all the way to the end, I'm surprised. Maybe you identified with this more than I expected? What do you think of my theory about why I don't sleep at night?
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
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Australia
If I was religious, I would claim to be the reincarnation of Karl Marx, Peter Kropotkin, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Huey Newton, Che Guevara, etc.

I hope you know that Karl Marx was in fact bat shit insane.

"What logical fallacy will I employ on the next page of Das Kapital?"
 

Gragel

Redshirt
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Today 9:18 AM
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Dec 5, 2008
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1
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This wont be a long reply but I just wanted to say I can really relate to your... self-created and idealized system. I too felt (and feel, but I'm in a relatively good phase right now) the need to extend the day artificially just to get some "me-time". I've got it easier though, I'm only studying and I do pretty much what the hell I want during the day.

But I too feel the hopelessness for the future and I've written several pages concerning the impending, boring life I'm about to lead.
 

WittyUsername

Member
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Feb 2, 2011
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71
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Delhi
Try to convince yourself that being unhealthy is being inefficient.
Then try to convince yourself that what you're doing is unhealthy.

Sleep like normal human beings i.e. 8 hours starting at 10 maybe then wake up at 6.(not going to happen but still)

Start running. You can check out the Couch to 5k program. Its pretty easy. I mean I hadn't seen the sun for two years and I'm doing well till now.

I've found that if you live a healthy lifestyle , eat properly half of your mental fuckups will disappear. Maybe because your self esteem rises.

Get yourself a Dale Carnegie book. Learn social dynamics and then pursue whatever you want to.

Now you might ignore my advice for whatever reasons. But remember best solutions are simple solutions. There ARE some things which you can trust this world for.
 

Da Blob

Banned
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Dec 19, 2008
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5,926
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Location
Oklahoma
There is Kev, the Object, a minor, expendable component in the Machine that is the economy. There is also Kev the Subject, struggling to maintain an identity as a Human, a thinking conscious entity in a world that discounts Humanity.

I agree with some of the above. Setting Subjective goals, that involve living a healthy lifestyle is good for Kev, the Subject. It is never a mistake to view one's own body with a degree of suspicion as a source of betrayal, so going to the doctor, periodically, to check for physical problems is a good idea.

Another way to enrich the quality of the subjective environment and increase social skills is to become a volunteer at some charity. As a volunteer, one assumes a rather unique and personally useful niche in a social hierarchy. One can 'experiment' at communication/socialization with the victims/clients being served by that charity, as well with other volunteers. Again Volunteer is a useful social role to play, for the list of expectations one has to meet to be considered a good or excellent Volunteer is rather short. Socialization is all about fulfilling expectations, with each role defined by a list of expectations. Therefore, in the process of learning to socialize, it is easier to begin with social roles with short lists of expectations...

This may be why so many in our current society assume the role of a Victim, the social role of Victim has the shortest list of expectations that have to be met to fulfill that role.. It is much easier to be a Victim, than a Survivor...
 

EditorOne

Prolific Member
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Mar 24, 2008
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Northeastern Pennsylvania
We can pretty much all relate to your situation. Any job requiring repetitive interaction with strangers is a pretty bad fit for an INTP.

Change jobs. Not the best time for that, of course, but really, that job will shrivel your soul.

Find something where you are required to solve problems on a daily basis. Do not overlook the potential of something you might, at first glance, think to be mundane, like the building trades, to offer you an endless supply of interesting problems requiring your strong suits of analysis and innovation. If you need to retool your skills, find out how to do that and do it.

Don't just sit there. The mere process of figuring out how to change your situation -- more school, apprenticeship, finding a mentor -- will in fact change your situation. By all means center it on your strengths. Don't overlook opportunities to improve your skills with emotions and relationships as time goes by, but don't build a life on the less reliable aspects of your personality. The more you use your strong skills, the more confidence you'll have. And maybe the more sleep you'll get at the right time.
 

VroumVroum

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Hello
I just can’t go to sleep. I’ll do useless and even boring things not to go to bed. Been exhausted by work or swimming seems to be the only real solution for me. Getting out of my bed is equally difficult.


Unfortunately, I don’t know how I could help you to live with the system. However, I can relate to some of your thoughts.


Have you make anything that leads you to the conclusion that you’re the spiritual child of famous revolutionaries? Or do you wish to be like them?
Saying you’ve solve the problem of world hunger implies to me that you don’t know the issue well enough.
I know I’m going hard on you but what do you have to offer? How have you improved your INTP skills?
And what have you ever done in your entire life to reach a job that would suit you?


I’m not really talking about you. I’m talking about me as an INTP like you. Yes, I’ve felt on those traps before. I thought I was so smart. I made plans beyond my reach because I only had a short view of the problem. I blamed others. I blamed the system. And I did nothing to go ahead.


I hope I’m not saying nonsense. I hope I haven’t gone too far. If I have, I apologize. What I’m trying to say is that advises are irrelevant. It’s only about you doing something.


For instance: you might consider going to sleep at a decent time instead of asking about a way to do it :D
 

Meer

Jermbl
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Nov 14, 2010
Messages
573
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Location
East of the mountains.
Yeah, I know how it is.

I've been awake for nearly 2 or 3 days, although I have vague memories of short naps. I don't sleep because I usually just can't and I like to spend the time doing creative things so that one day, hopefully, I can support myself with them.

My rattled brain can't think of much useful advice. Acceptance and..stuff.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
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Welcome to the club Kev.
 

Artsu Tharaz

The Lamb
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Ah, the good old INTP life.

Night time is dark, quiet, isolated. Lack of physical exertion makes normal sleep not work so well. Long days, two days long, are interesting, and allow the mind sufficient time to open up.

Try having a couple short sleeps and naps each day. I sleep for a few hours when I get home from work, then for 1-2 hours in the early morning, naps on the train. I have a clerical job which requires next to no thought, allowing me to fill my mind with whatever thoughts I desire. Could you get a job stacking shelves or something, which requires little interaction with people?

I think that a nearly completely independent life would be a fantastic experience for an INTP, rationing funds for food, hopping the train, spending your time doing independent study and thought. Fuck the world.
 

Artsu Tharaz

The Lamb
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What we should do: make our own INTP-centric (not solely. INFJs can come too.) communities, where we help provide each other with the basics, and spend most of our time on a free exchange of ideas, which I'm sure we can collectively work out how to work to our advantage. We're all like minded individuals, so let's make our own system, rather than forcing our way into one where we will be forever under-utilised and under-appreciated.

LET'S FUCK SHIT UP

[should this idea be New Thread'd?]
 

WittyUsername

Member
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Feb 2, 2011
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Delhi
What we should do: make our own INTP-centric (not solely. INFJs can come too.) communities, where we help provide each other with the basics, and spend most of our time on a free exchange of ideas, which I'm sure we can collectively work out how to work to our advantage. We're all like minded individuals, so let's make our own system, rather than forcing our way into one where we will be forever under-utilised and under-appreciated.

LET'S FUCK SHIT UP

[should this idea be New Thread'd?]

Will there be porn?
 

SkyWalker

observing y'all from my UFO. inevitably coming dow
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Today 10:18 AM
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This will sound kind of harsh (but I mean well, because this might wake you up):

Your problem is the gap between reality and your fantasy of your grandiose self.

Everytime when you see the gap, you turn back to your grandiose fantasy (avoiding reality). That is why you cannot alter your reality, because you avoid it.

Once you overcome that gap, you can alter your reality, but as long as you stay in fantasy land, you will stay at some shit place in daily life.

ACCEPT YOUR SITUATION, burn your fanatasies (not your dreams but your "i deserve" attitude), your "I deserve" fantasies suck and are hateful actually.

its not you anyway, its not even your fault, its the media and stupid modern culture that manipulated you into that huge ego state. you think you are so out of the system, BUT YOU ARE DEEPLY INDOCTRINATED INTO THE SYSTEM

Anybody that reads your text will detect a huge ego: a guy that thinks he is too good for anything, even too good for social communication. YES thats were it all comes from! not from your INTPness or whatever, its just because you think you are too good for it!!

If you don't like this life, then do something about it. Even change the whole fucking world if you have to. Don't pretend you are so smart etc, and you deserve more... You deserve to take only as much as you give and not a cent more.

Why the hell would you deserve more?? You just hand out burgers. And yes, that is of value too, thats why they pay you. But what did you do for humanity that they should pay you more??? Oh you say you COULD do so much, but humanity just put you in the wrong place?? waht a child, only babies talk like that!! so you blame all of us and now our fault and not yours?? just grow up and take charge.

saying you COULD make value? then prove it and make some value! you say you have your nights, what are you waiting for??
just stay at the shit job and work on something of great value meanwhile. at least you have time.

oh and if people dont want your creations then it is probably of no value to anybody but yourself.. or... you are just not presenting it well enough, so just improve it and try again! if you are intelligent enough then you will find the way and succeed in it eventually even if it takes 20 years... so what?? somebody who stays 20 years in a shit job to finish a magnificent piece of work in the night gets all my respect. But somebody who just uses all of those nights to complain about the difference between his fantasy and reality gets none of mine.
 
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