Ideal INTP Functioning.

[BigApplePi]

This Q was posed on the Ask Architect thread. How would the INTP best function?

... Above I mentioned how the brain works together when practicing an instrument, how does (or should) the functions work together when expressed in the personality of an INTP? We know some things already, the first two are conscious and the latter two largely unconscious, and the importance in the order given in the stack, and don't forget the special place the inferior has! But in an ideally functioning INTP during daily life, how should their personality (remember my theory of the type-personality psyche?) be habituated most of the time?

I think the key concept is lead from behind. Consider; Ti is an introverted function, so it likes to be largely hidden. Most people see the first extraverted function Ne, which then is the one that goes outward. Ti is the dominant and Ne should be the advisor. But we are, in some sense, all extraverted creatures who necessarily move through an external world, so doesn't that imply that Ne is leading?

So I think the answer is that how this works is that the Ti leader needs to orient the psyche towards questions, which means the outward going Ne is getting what it needs. If the Ti leader is smart it'll point it towards questions that are important, like what's on the test tomorrow! Then kind of like a dog on a leash, the Ne advisor will scout around, happy as a pup, digging out information and leads, feeding that back to the thinking core.

Let's take the issue, "What's on the test tomorrow?"
How could a smoothly functioning INTP operate? INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe. Let's pose operating with those functions.

Ti - The subject matter of the test is to be thought about in some way to a achieve the best results considering the circumstances. These are inner thoughts.
Ne - The test is about a specific topic but has to be covered as broadly as possible. The task will be to pull together notes, lectures and any independent thought on the topic.
Si - Go over and recall the subject matter with focus but with permitted stress and acceptable comfort.
Fe - Recognize the purpose of this is to achieve a desired rating in one's own eyes as verified by the test givers judgment.

Note that while Si and Fe and there they are kept in the background as boundary checks over the more prominent Ti and Ne.

Now what about the missing CF's: Te Ni Se Fi? Will the INTP give them credence?
Te and Se - I don't know. It may very well be that to take a test whose subject matter is in the outside world that ones own internal Ti and Ne positions must be sacrificed. Perhaps the Si memory function needs to take over if Fe demands of the test course merit a priority of Te/Se functions. This will also require a suppression of Ni and Fi as an objective type test won't favor those functions.

Agree? Disagree?

 

[Cherry Cola]

I think what he proposes is that Ti should enforce long range thinking by choosing to focus on that which will allow for the best Ti usage in the long run. Focus on the test because if you flunk it you'll just need to redo it later, or you will fail a course, disappoint yourself and/or parents etc, all in all guaranteeing more time consuming distractions will result from not studying and flunking the test than the studying required to pass the test. Even if studying for the test is boring as hell, the knowledge gained completely useless, and you think of twenty other things you would rather focus your mind on; you should still study because in the end you'll have less time for those twenty other things if you don't. Ne is your eyes. You are a blind man with a dog acting as your guide, so you better make sure you are the pack leader.

Why would you have to sacrifice your own internal Ti and Ne positions just because some subject matter is in the outside world? That makes it sound like there's some absolute barrier between the functions, that they lead to fundamentally different ways of seeing the world. As far as I know there's no reason why Ti and Ne would need to sacrifice anything because the subject matter is about something which they as functions do not bother with. Ti and Ne can be used to learn about whatever, be it football or programming. Ti and Ne just wont be ever be optimal for playing football.

 

[BigApplePi]

I think what he proposes is that Ti should enforce long range thinking ...

I'm okay with that in the case Architect chose. What I'm after is an abstract way to bring together all the functions operating as an integrated complete person.

Why would you have to sacrifice your own internal Ti and Ne positions just because some subject matter is in the outside world?

If the outside world matters, Ti and Ne would be used in a different way.

Ti and Ne just wont be ever be optimal for playing football.

I don't know about that. What about Ti for master strategies and Ne for scanning possibilities? Then hand those ideas over to Te/Se people.

 

[Architect]

At the risk of revisiting my own vomit I'll put a few things down.

The motivation for this was seeing a dichotomy in myself. There were things I knew I liked - like programming, but for some reason I had a lot of dissatisfaction with actually doing them. How could this be? It seemed that I just approached them the wrong way because of habit. After a lot of study I developed a theory of the psyche which is that we have a type (cortex) and personality (neocortex), and that the two were not working together. The type, being programmed into the cortex is unreasoning and must get what it wants, or there will be psychic fatigue and conflict. The personality is adaptable and reprogramms itself throughout our life, which corresponds to the neocortex. If the personality has habits that the type 'doesn't like', then there will be conflict. So therefore the job is to hack the personality (in other words, simply reprogram it).

My first thought was that Ne was an adviser to Ti, but that never seemed to work out. One reason seemed to be because Ne goes outwards. Also, Ne wasn't happy sitting by the sidelines, it wanted to be in the middle of the action, as far as I could tell. Instead with Ne 'in front', and Ti leading behind that, seems to be a model that the type prefers.

As for the other two? They don't seem to come up directly that much. They're both largely unconscious after all. I find that Si comes into play with continuous monitoring of internal bodily sensations, something I've seen INTP's are highly sensitive to. And it's good at recalling data. Otherwise it floats to the surface when taking a break at the end of a long hard day. For me that means reading old books I've read before, watching old movies, etc. As I've written about elsewhere Fe provides a distant goal and motivator. Out there at the periphery of your psyche. But it's waiting to pounce if you let Ti/Ne weaken too much.

That's as far as I've gotten, but I'm not sure there's much more to discover.

 

[Methodician]

What is this "ideal INTP functioning"? Are you actually looking for the 'best' way to operate or just trying to gain a better understanding of the default/typical pattern an INTP brain follows?

 

[Architect]

What is this "ideal INTP functioning"?

As I said above. Repeating myself, the theory is that there are two major parts of the psyche, the personality (plastic neocortex) and the type (unchangeable type). Conflict arises when the personality diverges too far from the type. For example, an INTP that was taught to fish and hunt rather than think and speculate.

Ideal INTP functioning is where the individual personality is preserved, but it is convergent with the goals and desires of the underlying type psyche.

 

[BigApplePi]

What is this "ideal INTP functioning"? Are you actually looking for the 'best' way to operate or just trying to gain a better understanding of the default/typical pattern an INTP brain follows?

The former should sit on the latter. I'm not assuming there is any single best way but rather am after harmony. After all we all have the T N S F functions whether in or out. Ideally there would be various optimums. Using other language that means developing what can be developed where some functions are "super-conscious" and others are supportive.

I believe I read months ago on this Forum a reference that one should push hard on one's primary function, developing that. I don't recall what was said about the other functions. I wouldn't agree the lowest two should be ignored because every one of those TNSF's are required for a full human being.

I would propose as an exercise (for the fun of it) to take the four functions and look at a scenario where one is very undeveloped, two are undeveloped ... and see what we get. These would be clues. I believe we already know something of what happens to an INTP when the Fe development is absent. We get an INTP with no social skills or distorted evaluation of others and themselves. This is not conducive to an efficient use of Ti. The Ti can't get out efficiently. Ne won't operate well or becomes distorted. Si becomes miserable. (Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.)

BTW this exercise could be used for any of the other fifteen temperaments but this is the INTP Forum.

 

[BigApplePi]

Sounds good. This has me wondering if the top two functions go to the cortex separate from the personality in the neocortex or does the whole thing operate unified with the neocortex flexible? If this is not the case and the cortex is more or less hard wired, should this not show up on those brain scans? We should be able to see 16 cortex differences. I wonder.

 

[Architect]

I would propose as an exercise (for the fun of it) to take the four functions and look at a scenario where one is very undeveloped, two are undeveloped ... and see what we get.

One example I'm very familiar with is the ...

Ne heavy INTP

Some have referred to this (as a variation) as NTIP or some such. As that's a preference view I don't put much stock in it. I'd call this

• Ne
• Ti
• Si
• Fe

(note the ENTP is Ne-Ti-Fe-Si, and there is no canonical type with the above stack)

Public examples of this is Larry David and Jim Parsons. It's extremely common in INTP's in the Entertainment field. I was this as I went into classical music, which also belongs in Entertainment. This type of INTP is usually misanthropic due to the lopsided Ne-Ti, and so thereby having an undeveloped and underemphasized Ti.

Interestingly this type of INTP usually is extremely weak in science and technology. It's like they completely abandon all of that in their quest in the humanities. My experience is that the humanities is so taxing that it precludes any possibility of being up on science and technology.

Larry David is worth studying in this regards. He's terrible at even using his phone, but you can see Ti operating (more weakly than for a science INTP) behind the scenes. He's constantly analyzing social situations and carries around a little black book to make notes of faux pas and other little events.

Overall, these types of INTP's are fun to have at parties, but usually neurotic (see Parsons and David) and don't have a lot of energy to go around. They usually suck at science and tech for this reason and are complete Humanities geeks. Oftentimes you'll see overcompensation with Ti; for Larry David you have somebody who obsessively analyzes social situations* and with Jim Parsons an exaggerated portrayal of a nerd on TV, and a highly nerdy individual in real life.

* LD has said that his character on TV is how he would really act if he wasn't as socially aware

 

[BigApplePi]

Architect. I'm not as familiar with Larry David as you are but could we say he loves to think (Ti) but just doesn't use it correctly? He is overwhelmed by Ne data.

Would this be like a person who loves to add numbers (perhaps as play) but just gets them wrong, or someone who composes awful music or a child who builds with play blocks but the construction always breaks down? These could be examples of overemphasized Si where the person loves to think about the Si but gets it wrong?

 

[Architect]

Architect. I'm not as familiar with Larry David as you are but could we say he loves to think (Ti) but just doesn't use it correctly? He is overwhelmed by Ne data.

I wouldn't put it that way. Rather he over uses intuition - Ne and underuses Ti, leading to one being overdeveloped and the other underdeveloped. Imbalanced, which leads to the neurosis. Of course he used that successfully to become very rich and successful, and do some great comedy along the way. Again I'd say his type wants him to prefer Ti over Ne, but his personality has developed and prefers Ne over Ti. So he's a "poorer" thinker than he would be otherwise, say compared to Einstein who was very heavily Ti-ne.

By the word "using" I mean his personality. As the personality prefers different functions it develops them, and becomes good. And worse at others.

 

[Analyzer]

Ne heavy INTPs might possibly be more of the Sexual/Social or Social/Sexual instinctual variant and also more of 5w6 than 5w4.

See this for more information:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/133-Instinctual-Stackings