INFJ and INTP

[ascii]

I've been conflicted over my own type for a while, and have narrowed it down to me being either an INTP or an INFJ. Looking at the functions for each of these types, they're reasonably similar:

INTP = Ti -> Ne -> Si -> Fe
INFJ = Ni -> Fe -> Ti -> Se

The main difference seems to be the INTP's Ne and the INFJ's Ni. Unfortunately, I'm not sure which one of these functions I use: the only functions I'm positive I use are Ti and Fe.

I understand the basic principles behind the Ni and Ne functions, but I haven't been able to effectively decide which one of these functions I use, so I was hoping you guys could help me out. Ideally, if you could give examples of an Ni or Ne thought process and ways to effectively tell which of these functions I use I would very much appreciate it.

Any general information on the main differences between INTP's and INFJ's would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
-ascii

 

[Words]

The main difference seems to be the INTP's Ne and the INFJ's Ni.

agreed.

I understand the basic principles behind the Ni and Ne functions, but I haven't been able to effectively decide which one of these functions I use, so I was hoping you guys could help me out. Ideally, if you could give examples of an Ni or Ne thought process and ways to effectively tell which of these functions I use I would very much appreciate it.

What kind of ideas do you like? What sort of ideas do you come up with? Ni creates ideas that are perspectives, whereas Ne creates ideas that are objects. (This is personal understanding, but see if it makes sense to you.)

If you want "thought process", the term "epiphany" and the thought process revolving it refers to Ni. Perspectives-ideas are grand because they literally change your perception of anything, very similar to the common term that is "epiphany."

A common detail attributed to Ne, on the other hand, is "being random", even if truly is not being random. It is not commonly considered as game-changing, and it is related to the fact that "random" is often not taken seriously.

Sadly I can't find any clear common terms that describe the thought process. The closest, I would say, is not a thought process but an empirical process: evolution. You have an original object, and then you have a modification of the object. Ne references the past object(s) and with it, creates new stuff(objects, although in idea form). And, evolution also has some sort of randomness or commonly perceived as randomness. If you've played the game Spore, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. An almost exclusive trait for it would be "creativity."

 

[ascii]

What kind of ideas do you like? What sort of ideas do you come up with? Ni creates ideas that are perspectives, whereas Ne creates ideas that are objects. (This is personal understanding, but see if it makes sense to you.)

If you want "thought process", the term "epiphany" and the thought process revolving it refers to Ni. Perspectives-ideas are grand because they literally change your perception of anything, very similar to the common term that is "epiphany."

A common detail attributed to Ne, on the other hand, is "being random", even if truly is not being random. It is not commonly considered as game-changing, and it is related to the fact that "random" is often not taken seriously.

Sadly I can't find any clear common terms that describe the thought process. The closest, I would say, is not a thought process but an empirical process: evolution. You have an original object, and then you have a modification of the object. Ne references the past object(s) and with it, creates new stuff(objects, although in idea form). And, evolution also has some sort of randomness or commonly perceived as randomness. If you've played the game Spore, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. An almost exclusive trait for it would be "creativity."

That was interesting, but I don't know if it's really helped my situation. I understand what you're saying about objects vs. perspectives, but I'm having trouble deciding on which ones I "create" (maybe it's because I'm having trouble thinking of ideas I've had). Most of the original ideas I have are about psychological/behavioral principles, which seem more like "idea objects" to me, which makes me lean towards Ne, however.

To be honest, anyhow, most of the time I spend thinking I spend thinking about the future and how a particular event (usually a conversation) is going to unfold.

 

[Words]

That was interesting, but I don't know if it's really helped my situation. I understand what you're saying about objects vs. perspectives, but I'm having trouble deciding on which ones I "create" (maybe it's because I'm having trouble thinking of ideas I've had). Most of the original ideas I have are about psychological/behavioral principles, which seem more like "idea objects" to me, which makes me lean towards Ne, however.

Not necessarily, principles do change your perspective. How you see someone could depend on the number of principles/assumptions you might have on the person. The process behind could either be step by step TiNeSi or a sudden Ni.

How about idea-objects as in actual "physical objects?" I think these are the most easily "idea-objects." Inventions! yes that's it. Does your mind frequently create inventions? I have a long list of invention-ideas myself.

If you're a native english speaker, then it usually goes along with "What if.." or some other phrase close to it.

To be honest, anyhow, most of the time I spend thinking I spend thinking about the future and how a particular event (usually a conversation) is going to unfold.

..which is commonly associated with Ni? I somewhat disagree, because I'm certain to be an Ne-type but I ponder/daydream too much about the future as well. I think almost everyone thinks about the flow of conversations. You expected certain posts in this thread and have already decided on how to reply, yeah?

 

[Architect]

Why IPs May Struggle to Know Their Personality Type: The Role of the Inferior Function

Extraverted Feeling (Fe): INTPs’ & ISTPs’ Inferior Function

Unsure of My Personality Type: What Should I Do?

Judging & Perceiving: Distinguishing INTPs/INFPs from INTJs/INFJs

 

[ascii]

How about idea-objects as in actual "physical objects?" I think these are the most easily "idea-objects." Inventions! yes that's it. Does your mind frequently create inventions? I have a long list of invention-ideas myself.

Physical inventions? Nope.

Pretty much all of the things I've created through programming aren't incredibly original (music players, clones of other games, etc), I just add some weird feature that makes it slightly stand out.

If you're a native english speaker, then it usually goes along with "What if.." or some other phrase close to it.

I guess so, but I don't think I say it in a very Ne way.

..which is commonly associated with Ni? I somewhat disagree, because I'm certain to be an Ne-type but I ponder/daydream too much about the future as well. I think almost everyone thinks about the flow of conversations. You expected certain posts in this thread and have already decided on how to reply, yeah?

Yup.


Architect, thanks for those articles, they were fascinating. In particular, this one I strongly connected with: http://personalityjunkie.com/03/extraverted-feeling-fe-intp-istp-inferior-function/

Quotes like:
- INTPs fear and resist being impacted or controlled from without.
- In a group setting, INTPs want everyone to feel included and treated with fairness and respect. While not as warm and effusive as FJ types, INTPs are concerned with others’ feelings and try to avoid hurting or offending them. Like FJ types, INTPs do what it takes to maintain a basic level of harmony in their immediate circumstances. Unlike FJs, however, they are generally slow to go out of their way to help others (at least not in a direct, hands-on way). Most INTPs forgo community service and do not invest extensive time or energy into helping others. This is particularly true when under stress. If burdened by too many demands and without sufficient time to themselves, INTPs’ willingness to help others is one of the first things to go. <-- THIS SO MUCH
- Because of their Fe’s concern for maintaining external harmony, INTPs can be slow to express their judgments for fear that their ideas will be disturbing to others. For instance, they may want to explain how human mating practices are primarily a product of evolutionary pressures. But if they suspect that even one person may take offense to such an explanation, they may withhold it to avoid introducing disharmony. <-- ALSO THIS SO MUCH
- INTPs may also avoid extraverting their judgments by way of their Fe because of concerns about their ability to effectively articulate them, fearing that they will be perceived as less intelligent than they really are. <-- A LOT
- While INTPs can do at fair job at reading others’ emotions and are cognitively aware of the appropriate social response, they often do not “feel” what others are feeling. <-- ASSUMING I'M INTERPRETING THIS CORRECTLY: SO MUCH SO
- Especially when their work is going well, they may feel they don’t really need other people. <-- Yup, yup.
- Consequently, INTPs often feel awkward or inept in emotional situations, knowing that they cannot readily summon the situationally-appropriate emotions. <-- mmhmm



Combining that with what I read from this article: http://personalityjunkie.com/05/know-personality-type-inferior-function/, I feel like the trouble I'm having identifying whether I'm Ni or Ne might be because my auxiliary function hasn't really developed yet. I know that Fe is one of my functions I recognize the most, but also recognize wasn't present in my early childhood (as in, it's definitely not my dominant).


Also, I took the MBTI test on that website and scored INTP, though I'm not sure how accurate that result is because each of their options was around a paragraph long and there would be at least one sentence or piece of information I would disagree with in every paragraph I chose.

 

[intpz]

I'd say I could relate to about 20-30% of the Fe Inferior Function posts. When I was younger, I could've related to it a lot though, maybe 70-80% or even more.

 

[ascii]

I'd say I could relate to about 20-30% of the Fe Inferior Function posts. When I was younger, I could've related to it a lot though, maybe 70-80% or even more.

I'm pretty young, as in still in High School young, so maybe that explains it.

Things seem to be looking more INTP for me, anyhow.

 

[intpz]

From what I've read, mostly from @Architect's posts, your inferior functions develop later, not earlier. In my case it's completely the opposite, the more I live, the less I can relate to Fe.

Might be the same for you.

 

[ascii]

From what I've read, mostly from @Architect's posts, your inferior functions develop later, not earlier. In my case it's completely the opposite, the more I live, the less I can relate to Fe.

Might be the same for you.

Yes, as far as I know your inferior function develops last, your tertiary second to last and so on. When I said

I feel like the trouble I'm having identifying whether I'm Ni or Ne might be because my auxiliary function hasn't really developed yet. I know that Fe is one of my functions I recognize the most

I was referencing one of the articles he posted earlier on in this thread about how INTP's sometimes"jump their functional stack" and develop their inferior function (Fe) before they develop their auxiliary function (Ne).

 

[intpz]

Oh, I see. But still, I Ne shouldn't overtake the Fe anyway, there's no space limitation. Fe shouldn't be gone. My F side kicks in only when I'm utterly frustrated due to sole reason - lack of money to do what I wanna do. I believe I've already described it somewhere - E, F, S sides prioritize and the rest shuts down. If I can't do what my NT (INT?) asks me to, shut it down for some time, "perhaps the situation will change," my brain thinks.

As for normal every-day functioning... Can't relate much as I've mentioned in the post above.

 

[Architect]

No actually your inferior function (Fe) develops second, after the Dominant. This is probably because the inferior serves as the counterbalance to the Dominant, so the psyche seeking balance first develops Ti (because it must), then develops Fe (for balance), then develops Ne in late teenage through 20's, and finally Si.

 

[ascii]

No actually your inferior function (Fe) develops second, after the Dominant. This is probably because the inferior serves as the counterbalance to the Dominant, so the psyche seeking balance first develops Ti (because it must), then develops Fe (for balance), then develops Ne in late teenage through 20's, and finally Si.

That's cool.

So maybe, anyhow, that's the source of my confusion. It could be that my Ne has yet to develop, and that's why I don't know whether I'm Ne or Ni :O

Anyhow, like I said in my first post the only functions I know I use are Ti and Fe, and if those were the only ones that would have developed at my current age, does this make me INTP?

 

[Words]

erm... I've had great use of Ne since I was a kid. It was practically the mindset that energized my childhood. I've thought of plenty crazy ideas even as a kid, came up with the ideas for me and my cousins to game on. I made everyone roleplay without even having an understanding of the word "roleplay." Ne has always been there for me; its a very primary arbiter of what was interesting to me.

 

[ascii]

erm... I've had great use of Ne since I was a kid. It was practically the mindset that energized my childhood. I've thought of plenty crazy ideas even as a kid, came up with the ideas for me and my cousins to game on. I made everyone roleplay without even having an understanding of the word "roleplay." Ne has always been there for me; its a very primary arbiter of what was interesting to me.

Great, more conflicting information.

I'm still feeling inclined, however, to go with what I've read from Architects articles: I've "jumped" my functional stack (and thinking back on the past few years of my life, I think I understand why) haven't really developed my auxiliary function yet (which is possibly Ne?). After reading this article, I know I haven't seen any signs of Extroverted Sensing (the INFJ inferior function) in my personality at all, and this makes me lean away from INFJ somewhat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anyhow.

 

[Ink]

Are you having trouble with Sensing related stuff or Feeling related stuff the most? I'd recommend reading up on inferior functions more if you are still unsure

edit: Looks like you've done that... anyways, which one of these do you realate to the most? http://www.psychologyfitness.com/images/Chart-Se-_-Si1.bmp

 

[Obrens]

erm... I've had great use of Ne since I was a kid. It was practically the mindset that energized my childhood. I've thought of plenty crazy ideas even as a kid, came up with the ideas for me and my cousins to game on. I made everyone roleplay without even having an understanding of the word "roleplay." Ne has always been there for me; its a very primary arbiter of what was interesting to me.

So... then... why do you think you're an INTP (assuming you do)? Maybe you're an ENTP. I know you're an old member here, probably not questioning your type anymore but maybe you should. Just sayin'. Don't get mad at me. (A true INTP wouldn't :P)

 

[ascii]

edit: Looks like you've done that... anyways, which one of these do you realate to the most? http://www.psychologyfitness.com/ima...t-Se-_-Si1.bmp

I couldn't really relate to either of those at all. The only Se attribute I could somewhat relate to was "Sometimes too quick to draw conclusions." The only Si traits I could connect with were "misses new opportunities" and "enjoys present moment less" (though I think strong Si users enjoy the present less and are focused on the past, while when I'm not fully enjoying the present moment I'm focused on the future).

 

[Words]

So... then... why do you think you're an INTP (assuming you do)? Maybe you're an ENTP. I know you're an old member here, probably not questioning your type anymore but maybe you should.

Inferior Fe, and absence of inferior Si. I happily keep lists and write schedules, I'm a diagram-nut and I naturally create needless social assumptions. I know plenty ENTP's, i don't have the same energy as they have. And just the state of being a child means you have tons of energy, that's what i was as a kid. An energetic INTP.

Just sayin'. Don't get mad at me. (A true INTP wouldn't :P)

Hehe

I couldn't really relate to either of those at all. The only Se attribute I could somewhat relate to was "Sometimes too quick to draw conclusions." The only Si traits I could connect with were "misses new opportunities" and "enjoys present moment less" (though I think strong Si users enjoy the present less and are focused on the past, while when I'm not fully enjoying the present moment I'm focused on the future).

You should look into the thinking patterns of Ni-Se and Si-Ne. I don't have a link but try google.

 

[Beholder]

I didn't read all the posts here, but there are a few things I have to point out:
First - when we talk about "developing a function" we don't mean beginning to use it. Little INTPs still use lots of Ne and Fe and Si (don't know why I used that order...), and it's not like the older we get the more sappy and emotional we get. Instead, as we get older or more mature, we learn how to control our functions, rather than let them control us.
The perfect example is how as kids, INTPs are prone to seemingly unexpected bursts of uncontrolled emotion. As we get more mature we learn to control our emotions. I think the difference is that we learn to use our functions in harmony, rather than letting one take over; many INTPs recall being much more spontaneous, and seemingly extroverted, just saying whatever comes to mind (Ne), then as we get older we start using our Ti and Fe while Neing, filtering our thoughts through them.

Second thing I wanted to point out - Yes, INFJs use Ni and INTPs use Ne. But trying to figure out what your type is by figuring out which one you use is almost impossible, as the difference is very subtle, one which you can only understand after you have a clear understanding of the workings of your Ne-Si/Ni-Se respectively.
The main (or at least, most easily discernible) difference between INFJs and INTPs is the positioning of the Fe and Ti. So to an INTP the only thing that REALLY interests him is ideas, and his values and plans will be based heavily on logic; most of the time when he is 'extroverting', he is using Ne, so he will be kind of hyperactive and popping out ideas all the time, always relating the conversation to some random bit of data that he knows (especially younger INTPs, because like I said, they tend to use their functions 'one at a time').
An INFJ will be much more 'people-oriented', and the things in life he concerns himself most with will usually be his relationships with friends, family, teachers, employers etc'. When he is extraverting, he is using mainly Fe, so he will be focused more on connecting with the other person or people, understanding them and relating to them (sort of how INTPs (me at least) sometimes feel when they're drunk).

I'm sure my description of INFJs was lacking and inaccurate, since I'm an INTP after all... But I hope you get the idea.

 

[viche]

I've been conflicted over my own type for a while, and have narrowed it down to me being either an INTP or an INFJ. Looking at the functions for each of these types, they're reasonably similar:

this method may be difficult but it works very well. try seeing if you relate to description of holographic-panoramic thinking style, this would make you intp. if you relate more to vortical-synergetic this would make you infj. thinking styles

 

[TriflinThomas]

Ni is a planning function, it's like mapping out your future ("future" meaning tomorrow
, next week, or even just a couple hours into the future). I was talking to a friend and I explained how I use Ni in this way: "almost everything I do is planned, it's like I'm planning out what's going to happen in next week/month/year and almost everything I do serves to reach that goal." Like when I'm trying to get someone to do something for me, every word and body movement is deliberate and controlled so I have the best chance of getting what I need. It's like being at point A, seeing point B, and having to almost work backwards to move yourself from A to B. Don't know of that helped, but those are just my observations.

 

[snafupants]

An INTP is an inner/dominant judger whereas an INFJ is an inner/dominant perceiver.

I understand the basic principles behind the Ni and Ne functions, but I haven't been able to effectively decide which one of these functions I use, so I was hoping you guys could help me out. Ideally, if you could give examples of an Ni or Ne thought process and ways to effectively tell which of these functions I use I would very much appreciate it.

Ne - Thinking outside the box
Ni - Thinking about the box

Another way to maybe conceive Ni and Ne: Ne broadens the conversation by bringing up new ideas and synthesizing perspectives; Ni is more about removing all of the cultural stuff and noticing what something represents when unembellished.

Ni - What are conversations? Why do humans use words to communicate?
Ne - How are these talks linked? What can these ideas be turned into?

Basically, Ne looks at something and sees a bunch of ideas whereas Ni looks at something and sees its apotheosis or archetypal representation. @ascii

Philosophically, Ni might be represented by Plato's theory of forms, and Ne might be represented by Foucault's brand of cultural relativism.

As a rule of thumb, Ni will simplify an idea to its core; Ne will broaden the perspective.

 

[snafupants]

See my previous post, but here's something that Stanley Kubrick said which typifies Ni thinking:

The thing is, Schindler's List is about success, the Holocaust was about failure.

It totally strips away all of the Ne-Si historical asides and conjectures.

It's bare bones. Convergent. Precise. Genius.