Intp from Texas

[OldCoyote]

Who am I?

My name is Cody I'm a 26 year old male from a Native American decent (Chickasaw).

What brings me here?

I read a book "mans rise to civilization" by Peter Farb, in which was some references to Jung/Frued type Psychology coinciding with Native American beliefs. From there I began a quest to coincide my own beliefs with modern psychology.

I've taken several mbti tests and consistently come up with INTP, which is a surprise to me... Or is it?

A wise medicine man ( I hate the word shaman) once showed me my spirit guides. On the left an Owl representing deception, the moon, clairvoyance. They say you can't deceive an owl, albeit Ne fits these traits. It being feminine energy it would be an auxiliary function for me. On the right a Coyote the trickster, everything is sacred and nothing is sacred, through coyotes antics you can see your own foolish behavior. He thinks way to much and very seldom benefits from it(Ti).

Coyote (Ti) is always with me and has always been with me (primary function).. So
Add the symbolism to the animals and I've been "typed" pretty spot on by an old indian talking about animals....

And oh yea, there's more......

 

[Absurdity]

I think this is the best intro thread I've ever seen.

Welcome, OldCoyote.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I think this is the best intro thread I've ever seen.

Welcome, OldCoyote.

I agree with this.

Who am I?

This will be less organized than your OP:

I just learned of Leonard Crow Dog this morning, and I'm also aware of a general trend in that my interests are moving towards local pre-columbian history, though available in-depth information is seriously lacking. You represent a burning void of curiosity within me (hope that wasn't too strong of an expression). I'm partially crediting the eclipse with your appearance.

( I hate the word shaman)

I can understand this. Though the word's Siberian origin also increases my amazement regarding their ubiquitous presence throughout humanity. All cultures have them. How did this arise?

Add the symbolism to the animals and I've been "typed" pretty spot on by an old indian talking about animals....

And oh yea, there's more......

If I can ask (beware, I may drown you in questions if you let the levee break), is there any reason why the Owl is on the left as opposed to the right?

I also wouldn't hesitate to align the Owl with Ne and Coyote with Ti. The correlation is amazing. And about that stuff I highlighted in green...

 

[Latte]

You seem quite different your style of communication than is usual here. In a supplementally good manner.

I look forward to seeing more of your future verbal paintings.

When a thought is illustrated in a way where one has to derive the meaning from the whole of the illustration it engages one's intuition is a very pleasant way.

 

[OldCoyote]

Why did everybody have medicine people?

Cause everybody got sick...

The Chickasaw had 7 different areas of knowledge for their medicine people.

1.herbal medicine
2.physical medicine
3.dreamwork
4.language/myths/laws
5.ceremonies
6.laws of nature
7.conjuring/magic/manipulation (another tricky translation)

To conjure a spirit or cast a magic spell draws speculation from most. But for the most part it is used to manipulate the patient into truly believing the medicine will work...

A biblical example:

Somewhere in the NT, Matthew,luke maybe..IDK.. The story.

"Jesus is going to heal a blind man. he takes some dirt, spits on it, rubs it in the mans eyes then tells him to go to the river and wash out the dirt and you will be able to see."

Did The dirt heal the guy? No.. It was the spit or Jesus's spit that was it...

None of the above, Jesus didn't heal the guy, the great spirit (god) did. Jesus was the path, the dirt was a tool, the spit was the manipulator (conjure) .

Why is the Owl associated with the left?

Cause the coyote wouldn't let it sit on the right....

 

[OldCoyote]

You seem quite different your style of communication than is usual here. In a supplementally good manner.

I look forward to seeing more of your future verbal paintings.

When a thought is illustrated in a way where one has to derive the meaning from the whole of the illustration it engages one's intuition is a very pleasant way.

I really don't know what to say, I almost think a "feeling" is coming on...

Shoot, i like the way you talk too. This place is alright... Excuse me




What were we talking about again?

 

[OldCoyote]

First, let me apologize for my rather narrow explanation. It's not typical of me,

Why is the owl on the left?

If you look at the medicine wheel as say "cognitive functions", then your Guides would be your "type" or the manner in which you perceive the basic functions. It's not like we don't feel, we just don't use feelings as a way to arrive at a conclusion. Everybody experiences each step if the wheel like everybody experiences each cognitive function.

So, each of us has two prominent ways of processing these steps 'symbolized' by-

Male= right Female= left

If you were a female your dominant would be your left, therefore coyote(Ti) = left/primary Owl (Ne) = right/secondary. I don't think its a literal left and right thing it's more symbolic like "yin and yang" "push and pull" etc. ..

Finally, to conclude my rambling on shaman's vs medicine people. I used Jesus as an example to illustrate how "conjuring" works, I did this because if Jesus was dressed in feathers and chanting "hey ya hey ya hoe" you could see the shamanism in it right?

Shamanism is represented as more of the mystical part of aboriginal medicine. Little effort is being put out to preserve the rest of the medicine.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Cause everybody got sick...

Ah! (<-Brainstorm moment). But also because no one knew why or how!? It's humanity's way of dealing with uncertainty!? (And possibly legitimately manipulating the unknown in the process).

Spoiler

The Chickasaw had 7 different areas of knowledge for their medicine people.

1.herbal medicine
2.physical medicine
3.dreamwork
4.language/myths/laws
5.ceremonies
6.laws of nature
7.conjuring/magic/manipulation (another tricky translation)

To conjure a spirit or cast a magic spell draws speculation from most. But for the most part it is used to manipulate the patient into truly believing the medicine will work...

A biblical example:

Somewhere in the NT, Matthew,luke maybe..IDK.. The story.

"Jesus is going to heal a blind man. he takes some dirt, spits on it, rubs it in the mans eyes then tells him to go to the river and wash out the dirt and you will be able to see."

Did The dirt heal the guy? No.. It was the spit or Jesus's spit that was it...

None of the above, Jesus didn't heal the guy, the great spirit (god) did. Jesus was the path, the dirt was a tool, the spit was the manipulator (conjure) .

I like the divisions and the structure ^here. The same themes are repeated throughout Masonry, Qabalah, Jainism, Buddhism, Vodun, etc., but rarely found all in one. I think this lack of holism is due to the degeneration of the traditions over time due to some fault (the followers? the structure itself? evolving societies?) but I can't quite identify what that fault is...

What it leads to for me personally, having not been raised with any sense of religion or spirituality, is a difference in expression. I can only express what I experience as opposed to within the context of a long held tradition that others around me easily understand, which frustrates me to no end.

I should probably resurrect this thread...

Why is the Owl associated with the left?

Cause the coyote wouldn't let it sit on the right....

First, let me apologize for my rather narrow explanation. It's not typical of me,

Thanks. Don't worry too much about it though. When I encounter a lot of new information I need to be in a certain mindset to sift through it and apply it. I often need to mull things over. I'm good at asking questions and communicating what I already know, but learning itself... It's an ENTP thing.

Spoiler

Why is the owl on the left?

If you look at the medicine wheel as say "cognitive functions", then your Guides would be your "type" or the manner in which you perceive the basic functions. It's not like we don't feel, we just don't use feelings as a way to arrive at a conclusion. Everybody experiences each step if the wheel like everybody experiences each cognitive function.

So, each of us has two prominent ways of processing these steps 'symbolized' by-

Male= right Female= left

If you were a female your dominant would be your left, therefore coyote(Ti) = left/primary Owl (Ne) = right/secondary. I don't think its a literal left and right thing it's more symbolic like "yin and yang" "push and pull" etc. ..

Awesome!

Given this explanation, what do you make of the idea of shadow functions? e.g. an INTP under stress would start to exhibit the negative qualities of an ESFJ?

Finally, to conclude my rambling on shaman's vs medicine people. I used Jesus as an example to illustrate how "conjuring" works, I did this because if Jesus was dressed in feathers and chanting "hey ya hey ya hoe" you could see the shamanism in it right?

This is the best mental image I've had in a long time...

Conjuring is so intangible, yet instinctual in a way. Wisdom meets desire. Sort of.

Shamanism is represented as more of the mystical part of aboriginal medicine. Little effort is being put out to preserve the rest of the medicine.

I see. Pop culture... Same with "witch doctor." More evidence of tradition degeneration, imho.

On a side note, do you think I use enough smileys?

 

[OldCoyote]

Given this explanation, what do you make of the idea of shadow functions? e.g. an INTP under stress would start to exhibit the negative qualities of an ESFJ?

That's a good question..

Let's look at the wheel.

Before we begin let's Translate the wheel.

North- Mental/(T)
West- Physical (S)
South- Emotion (F)
East- Spirit (N)

Now you might wonder how we could get Intuition out if spirit but remember most all religions were started by a voice in the head.. Something other then (T)...




So the INTP(green) would be balanced between T & N, for some reason (ie stress, trauma etc.) they quit following their guides (natural process). They feel like they've gone to far, so what would they do?

Reverse tract= ESFJ(blue).. Some medicine people offer to "retrieve" these lost guides thereby returning the INTP back to their natural process's...

What's also interesting is if you acknowledge the tertiary and inferior processes, it acts to keep the INTP from going to far off center(in the north/east direction)...Preventing them from reversing tract in the first place.

 

[r4ch3l]

Just popping in to say welcome and that I am enjoying the hell out of this thread.
I'm formulating a MBTI and binary connectives post (rooted in the concept of distinction (binary; 2); then 4, then 4 x 4 =16) and would be interested in hearing your thoughts once I finish putting it together.

 

[Pyropyro]

Welcome OldCoyote.

I like how you handle such ancient archetypes (especially the Coyote) although I never thought the Owl was also an animal that's associated with deception.

I'll probably be lurking in most of your future threads.

 

[Grayman]

These are interesting connections I never knew of. It is amazing how far back these connections have gone concerning our standard thinking, intuition, feeling and sensing traits. I am not sure I understand why we have attributed certain traits to animals. It is common to think of an owl as wise but then if we physical compared intellect between a human and owl it would be obvious which is greater...Sorry for the stray thought.

Welcome.

 

[OldCoyote]

I would say it's entirely symbolic, but theirs also a hint of truth in it as well.

So in your example of the owl being attributed to wisdom.


Symbolic- The owl can see in the dark, those that can bring darkness to light are generally considered "wise".

In nature- albeit if you compared the intellect of an owl to other birds, you'd find the owl to be at least one of the most intelligent birds. (Crow/raven being the most intelligent)

But what makes them masters of deception?

Symbolic- it was believed that once a person died, their "shilup" or ghost would prowl the woods at night in the form of an owl(hence some tribes associated them with death),,Most people couldn't discern weather an owl was in fact an owl or the ghost of the dead. People with owl medicine could distinguish the difference.( when a "real" owl calls in the dark another "real" owl always answers, if it was just a single owl call it meant it was a ghost.

In nature- owl feathers are extremely quite, you can't actually hear them fly. So the Natives often used owl feathers on their arrows to mask the sound (deceive) of the arrow in flight.

Another example- Since the owl could see into the darkness (unknown) you couldn't deceive them..

Now the coyote equally demonstrates their ability's both symbolically and in nature.

Symbolic- coyote was the trickster, there are many examples of this in native legends. Coyote tricked man,rabbit, and turkey just to name a few. In fact, coyote keeps his tail down low and always looks behind him when he's running because so many want to get even with him.

In nature- coyote would dig a hole in the desert, let it fill up with water, then eat whatever little creature stopped by for a drink.

Another example in modern times- coyote will dig up traps, flip them over, piss on them so he'll remember where they where at.

It's not hard to imagine the coyote is intelligent. It's been legal to hunt them since the 1850's. What has that accomplished? - nothing

The coyote is stronger now then ever. They've moved into urban areas, inhabited former wolf territory.

You can't stop the coyote he's to smart..

Anyhow, thanks for the welcomes...