Quotas - the chosen ones

[SandMizzle]

Hey!


A few days ago I had a discussion with a friend about quotas. In this case we talked about people, who are chosen, because they have a particular skin colour/sex/religion/etc., for a job, although they are not the best applicants.

I had a hard time arguing here, because:

1. For me all people are equal (until I get to know them), I don't judge them by where they come from, what skin colour they have, or if they are female or male, this is nothing you can choose, so it has nothing to do with oneself.

2. In many settings there are discriminations, because the male chef for example doesn't think his female employee can handle her work, because she is a woman, even though she is better than her male co-workers, and so she doesn't get a promotion, although she would have deserved it. (I know, a cliché example^^)

3. If someone is discriminated against, help should be provided and fair compensation should be created.

4. Quotas fight against discrimination and use discrimination as a tool. Now one can say: "Yeah, you see, quotas are shit, deal with it!" But then I would ask: "Hey, just one moment! If we could change the whole system and eliminate the selfishness, complexes and hidden fears in people so everyone would be seen as equal by everyone then we wouldn't need quotas. But if that doesn't happen, and trust me, if I look at humanity, it won't, then why shouldn't we provide balance in discrimination and favour the once who were discriminated against." And now we come to the real problem:

5. It's not fair for the individual. That's the case. Neither discrimination nor favouritism are a good way to solve the problem. It's never fair. For noone. Actually if I would hear that I would have been favoured by someone, because I'm white and male, I would be really, really offended, because I want to be judged by my skills, not by something I can't control at all.

6. People are people. People make mistakes. People love, people fear... There just can't be equity!


What do you think about it?
Maybe you have got some experiences you wanna share...^^
If you could choose, what would you take: general discrimination or quotas, and why?
Maybe you heared about alternative solutions.

Feel free to point out failures in my description above.



Thanks,

Mr. Mizzle

 

[Cognisant]

If you didn't get the job because the company had to fill a quota, doesn't that mean you could get the job somewhere else?

I agree with quotas for the sake of the less abled, otherwise for example it can be incredibly difficult for a paraplegic to get a job for really no better reason than having a paraplegic employee can be socially awkward for the employer.

 

[SandMizzle]

In this particular case it is about a woman, who was put into some position in politics, because of her gender. There was only one free place, so there is no chance getting another try for the next three years or so.

I agree with you, when it's about handicapped (is this politically correct in English? =P Who cares anyway!) people. They probably wouldn't get a job otherwise..., so to speak. I see a good reason there and often the working place is provided for handicapped people, so they can work more easily and noone looses a job.

 

[Etheri]

I'm not out on the job market yet, but I know there are many schools, especially foreign uni's / colleges which have huge selections. While I think there are many and more problems with allowing everyone to study what they want, mainly an overkill in, economically, more useless degrees, I think it's easily the most fair system. Education, no matter how economically useless the degree, is always a good thing, too, so i guess i'm in favour of anyone being able to study anything.

Tl dr, no clue on jobmarket, but education wise, no quotas. If there has to be a quota, let it be by numerus clausus on an entrance exam. No bias, no shit about 'extra activities'

 

[Jah]

quotas work, to some extent, though they will lead to ridiculous situations where someone less able are picked over someone better suited.


Try this one; in applications, leave only a Number and not a name, think THX 1138 or similar concepts.

I mean, fuck, either a person is the best / best qualified or they are not, that should be all that matters.


Should I find myself in a position of presenting someone with future employees, Agent or whatever; I'd strip the names and nationalities and work solely from the skill-tree of that person.

I don't care if someone is English or not, when considering whether or not they have a good English. (It's quite irrelevant, as most foreigners who are decent in English will have better reference for the language than those who grew up in it. (think of the common ones; They're, Their, There etc. all of these easy to understand if you cross reference them using more than one language, but growing up within a language; you have blind-spots.) =)


Then again; some people base a lot of their Ego on being Woman/Man, their Nationality or stupid shit like that.
Good riddance then to ignore that factor when people apply for jobs.
Use initials and a number (four digits would probably do.)


Here in Norway we have issues with people of foreign origin having trouble getting jobs they seem qualified for, solely by virtue of a name like Ali or Muhammad. (or both, as it usually is)




/rant.

Let's just turn to Virtual workplaces. much easier.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

How about: Quotas, except where another candidate is better qualified ?

I don't really think quotas are great though, since they are a brute force method of working towards equality. The focus should be on improving the skill sets of the discriminated, and extinguishing unwarranted prejudice. If someone has demonstrated themselves to be a poor worker that's one thing, but refusing to hire a class of people just because of certain trivial features is ridiculous.

 

[Da Blob]

Equal Opportunity is merely a myth in any event. The very definition of opportunity suggests that it is an inherently limited possibility.

The limits that define opportunity as such can be simply of Time or Space. Being able to take advantage of being at the right Place at the right Time is the only qualification.

Usually though, many opportunities in society are decided by social variables, re: It's not what one knows, it is who one 'knows'...

Unfortunately, it seems as if the best of opportunities are somehow reserved by high status individuals and used as currency of a sort.

I really do not think that qualifications are a factor in majority of opportunities that are Seized. Competition For Opportunity has always been a game with a predetermined outcome.

Perhaps, one can only hope to find Opportunity in the changes that others view as Threat. Changes that have yet to become institutionalized into the status quo may provide the only kind of equal opportunity that actually exists.