System creation ways and wherefores

[Architect]

I was thinking about when I make stuff, both physical and virtual. When its physical I don't know where to stop and it gets out of control. Examples ...

• Fixing a house. It started as a facelift light remodel and ended up where I needed to replace the foundation and everything left, right and center. Luckily I convinced Ms INFJ to sell it before we got to that point.
• Stereo. I started with buying parts, but then moved to building my own, then designing my own, eventually created a monstrosity so big (horns, turntable, all tube circuitry …) that I had to sell it off and bought a piano instead.
• Office. I needed to upgrade my workspace, and ended up with a three sit-stand circular desk system with six supporting computer systems, three enterprise switches, 16TB NAS, etc that takes up the biggest bedroom. Plus a mini kitchen for snacks and drinks. Luckily this one ended up stopping there and while the wires get out of control (next time I move I'll get it nailed!) it is highly functional and useful.
• Photography. Started with a full frame DSLR, then lens after lens, then flash system, light modifiers, filters, extra bodies ... I'm stopping it here!

Because of this I don't take on physical projects anymore if I can help it, they get too quickly out of control.

The odd thing is that when I build virtual systems (software, plans, strategies) I strive for elegance and minimalism.

I wonder if this is true for INTP's in general, and why it occurs.

 

[DIALECTIC]

I love creating / imagining abstract (Ti) / potential systems... Burns some calories down to brain working faster but no material ressources...

However over time, just like you, i learnt that creating physical (Te) / factual systems is not what i am made for, i'd rather point out issues / contradictions with already existing (Te) physical systems others wouldnt necessarily see !

 

[Architect]

I wonder if it's the shadow Te & Se that creates the lack of control. Probably Se, since I don't voluntarily channel that I'm not getting feedback that the external system is getting to be too much. Likewise since I lack Se I don't have the ability to manage or create it in the first place.

Life lesson, now my Si steers me away from managing the external world.

 

[DIALECTIC]

Life lesson, now my Si steers me away from managing the external world.

I came to the same conclusion ! Must be an age thing then... I am 39, you ?

Then again, if Ne hadn't push me in the past into risky possibilities / adventures and therefore made me earn quite a bit of money (so that i can now relax a bit and not get involved in more risky ventures and possibly lose everything...) i woud certainly still be willing to manage the external world... And face the consequences !!

However the coming of the mighty self-regulatory Si was a true blessing (like a messiah !) for me, as it came at the right time (age 36-37 in my case) to teach / force me to be conservative in my spendings because, otherwise, Fe would have made me spent the rest of my savings !
Funnily enough i now get along with Si dominants as i can see their point (however they can't really see mine !), until their absolutistic Te starts pissing my relativistic Ti off !!!

 

[Duxwing]

I am the same way. Perhaps Ne imagines possibilities, and Ti wants to fill them out to make the physical system logically 'complete'. However, when I design virtual physical systems in KSP, I try to maximize elegance.

-Duxwing

 

[DIALECTIC]

I am the same way. Perhaps Ne imagines possibilities, and Ti wants to fill them out to make the physical system logically 'complete'. However, when I design virtual physical systems in KSP, I try to maximize elegance.

-Duxwing

Wouldn't Ne expand the system Ti originally created, and thru such expansion Ti is then forced to create subsystems ad infinitum et ultra... After a while, Ti becomes too weakened to systemize / regulate / stamline such an architecture because overzealous Ne just sees no end to it ! And then, Fe comes along to sabotage / short circuit the whole system and give some rest to hard working Ti ! And the cycle of BS starts again, until, later in life...

...Si comes along to put an end to boundless Ne and to prevent a random Fe "sabotage" / short circuit... And therefore Si is solidifying what Ti + Ne already created and developped...

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

When dealing with the physical, you almost always spot problems (or needs, wants etc.) and things snowball. I know this from remodeling the place where I live and work. Fixing every problem led to spotting another. Then another. Rinse lather repeat. I was removed by the others from having anything to do with the remodel so it worked out wonderfully for me .



The reason it doesn't get out of control when you are doing virtual projects is because you believe (rightly or wrongly) that you are doing it right the first time and thus don't spot an endless series of problems.

 

[DIALECTIC]

Wouldn't Ne expand the system Ti originally created, and thru such expansion Ti is then forced to create subsystems ad infinitum et ultra... After a while, Ti becomes too weakened to systemize / regulate / streamline such an architecture because overzealous Ne just sees no end to it ! And then, Fe comes along to sabotage / short circuit the whole system and give some rest to hard working Ti ! And the cycle of BS starts again.

In fact, this description does sound very much like the European Union: an ideal system in theory (Ti), expanded without limitations (Ne) into countless subsystems (additions of new countries), short circuited thru immature human emotions and corruption (Fe) WITHOUT learning from history / past mistakes thru the non integration of Si...

 

[TimeAsylums]

Can't speak for ya INTPs but you already know about the (N) doms need for physical creation/validation of their (S)

I imagine your Ne goes wild with ideas, you can't stop it, and then your Si is like, "Ok let's put this into the world!"

Or something like that... Ti keeps 'self' (mental) ideas to a minimum, being Ti. As your Ti is stronger than your Ne...

some links on PJ somewhere, but just my guess.

 

[scorpiomover]

The odd thing is that when I build virtual systems (software, plans, strategies) I strive for elegance and minimalism.

You've got over 20 years experience in programming. You know what you're doing with it. I suspect that if you'd chosen to become a literal architect, you'd probably aim for elegance and minimalism in changes to your house as well.

I was thinking about when I make stuff, both physical and virtual. When its physical I don't know where to stop and it gets out of control.

I wonder if this is true for INTP's in general, and why it occurs.

Letting Ti & Ne run away with things, due to lack of real experience of the complications of making it happen. Ti sees millions of problems. Ne sees millions of possibilities. But without practical experience of doing it many times yourself, your Ti & Ne don't focus on the budgeting concerns, of how much time, effort and money it will take to make it happen.

Also happens to managers with no programming experience, when they are planning out a new computer system for their computer department. They ask for the most crazy things, and often leave out the really important stuff.

 

[Mr Write]

I've definitely noticed that I always go overboard with anything I get emotional about; which is bad, as I tend to get infatuated with just about every new thing. I try to not make any big decisions when I'm excited, but it's pretty hard to wait it out.

Not sure about the physical dimension to the problem here; I'd have to think about it.

 

[BigApplePi]

System creation? Open or closed? I don't think of creating a "system." I have a theme. It's organic. Ideas radiates outward and I keep in mind boundaries. The radiation goes to the first boundary. Then it wants to break through. If I let it, it will go through and I keep in mind the next boundary. This continues but gets more and more sloppy until it breaks off and I abandon it.

During the process, at any point I can look back to the last boundary filled. Then I feel some satisfaction. If the process is viable, it will grow and I can continue. When things get "ugly" and I don't know how to proceed, or can't, I stop.

 

[Architect]

I came to the same conclusion ! Must be an age thing then... I am 39, you ?

Mid 40's

Then again, if Ne hadn't push me in the past into risky possibilities / adventures and therefore made me earn quite a bit of money (so that i can now relax a bit and not get involved in more risky ventures and possibly lose everything...) i woud certainly still be willing to manage the external world... And face the consequences !!

Yes but this is different from Ne which sees possibilities but doesn't do anything with them really.

I am the same way. Perhaps Ne imagines possibilities, and Ti wants to fill them out to make the physical system logically 'complete'. However, when I design virtual physical systems in KSP, I try to maximize elegance.

You've got over 20 years experience in programming. You know what you're doing with it. I suspect that if you'd chosen to become a literal architect, you'd probably aim for elegance and minimalism in changes to your house as well.

Right. In both cases the "doing" is really documenting. Physical architects write out plans and such, and programmers write code, but neither created something physical yet. It takes a computer somewhere to do that for the programmer and a construction team for other.

Maybe it's in the approach. If you were to ask me to design a stereo system I'd come up with something elegant. But if you give me a bunch of parts (or the equivalent credit card) and say "go make a great stereo" I'll use a Te/Se approach which gets out of control, since they're not strengths of mine.

In the examples above it would have been better if I had instead planned out what was going to be done, instead of jumping in. Which I guess is the point, whereas sensors (ISTP's in particular) "think by doing", we "do by thinking".

Also happens to managers with no programming experience, when they are planning out a new computer system for their computer department. They ask for the most crazy things, and often leave out the really important stuff.

True enough