Trust

[Thomas Young]

'I have to defer to the truth as Vrecknidj states - deception is a social lubricant. If we were confronted with and had to deal with the truth from one another, society would grind to a halt.'

Rubbish, if the truth be told, society would flourish. There would be no misunderstanding, no hate no greed or envy people would be honest about their desires. Of course some truths are best left but I mean when you do talk, talk the truth.

 

[Dissident]

Rubbish, if the truth be told, society would flourish. There would be no misunderstanding, no hate no greed or envy people would be honest about their desires. Of course some truths are best left but I mean when you do talk, talk the truth.

Thats naive man. No hate?! THATS what would flourish; and greed has nothing to do with it.

That being said, I do advocate truthfulness, if society was partially destroyed by it then so be it, that would be the extent of its value. If its built on lies its failure is inevitable, and that applies to personal relationships as well, if a couple cant survive with brutal honesty then lies only delay whats unavoidable.

 

[loveofreason]

You're describing an ideal world.

Can you describe an actual transition to that ideal goal from where we are now in a real world where deceit is the norm? A transition that doesn't require people to stop and evaluate their lives; go through intense personal metamorphoses, and so somehow allow them to carry on the 'normal' activity upon which society relies?

My own experience of psychological transition teaches me that it is a full time and dedicated process that requires almost all one's attention. Something that requires a resource that has become a luxury commodity in the world today: time.

Society cannot permit it's entire populace to undertake transition without coming to a halt in it's present form. Large portions of our social structure are necrotic, and are due to be lost - the human energy and resources consumed by prevalent paradigms could be liberated for wiser ends in rebuilding a better society, but do not underestimate the enormity of the process.

Post-transition, yes, such a society could flourish.

 

[Thomas Young]

Well no there would be no hate, because with truth comes understanding, and if we understood each other there would be place for hate. From this point now there would undoubtedley be chaos but eventually things would peater out and we'd have peace.

 

[Agent Intellect]

Well no there would be no hate, because with truth comes understanding, and if we understood each other there would be place for hate. From this point now there would undoubtedley be chaos but eventually things would peater out and we'd have peace.

if people were incapable of deceiving each other, we'd know just exactly how many people really do hate us and to what extent. just because peoples feelings for one another are out in the open doesn't mean they will come to some understanding. i think deceiving others (and to a greater extent, ourselves) is the flawed human way of tolerating other people.

 

[Thomas Young]

I agree post transition would be ideal, but like I said in my last post there would be uproar if the truth were suddenly revealed in many places but it would be for the better of human survival, not our detriment. In the end the truth comes out anyway, so we should just speed it up rather than prolonging the inevitable.

 

[Dissident]

Real understanding is often plain imposible, by being truthful you just get knowledge, you know exactly how much and why X person dislikes you, if he looks down on you, etc. Do you think that would lead to love and understanding? Tell your boss/ teacher that you think he is a moron and we will see how it turns out. Other times it would be for the better, thats why I said "partially destroyed".

 

[Agent Intellect]

i agree, i think honesty should be the policy. i'm just saying that i don't think its a cure-all for society. but where do you draw the line of deception? i hate lies and if people say something, it should be the truth (or at least their honest opinion), but is witholding information being deceptive? should people be brutally honest every chance they get, declaring their advocacy or aversion to everything so people always know where they stand?

 

[Thomas Young]

there would be no confusion if we learn to be more spiritual in our thinking and feeling, then you would know never to call someone a moron unless your reasons for thinking him idiotic are genuine and proven. Then there would be no backlash if that person is true to himself and realises he/she is being an idiot. It will take time but we'll get there, its inevitable

 

[Agent Intellect]

there would be no confusion if we learn to be more spiritual in our thinking and feeling, then you would know never to call someone a moron unless your reasons for thinking him idiotic are genuine and proven. Then there would be no backlash if that person is true to himself and realises he/she is being an idiot. It will take time but we'll get there, its inevitable

that, to me, sounds like you'd want everyone to be the same. people think others as idiots not because of a lack of intelligence, but because that person doesn't agree with your view or opinion on a subject. just because everyone is truthful doesn't mean they won't think someone else is an idiot just because they are also being honest about themselves.

 

[Thomas Young]

Ahh, but everyone at the core is the same, and once everyone recognises the universal truth that all is one, we would see no need for conflict as it is not beneficial for us. We are not at that stage in our evolution yet but in time this is how things will pan out through spiritual recovery. Of course there will be different personality's always and that's how we'll learn from each other. But as we mature spiritually, we'll become less petty. Like when you get older you become less childish about things.

 

[stefanie]

good questions!
i'll have to think about a decent answer, also i have to nick off now. i'll just say quickly that i believe trust to be of utmost importance, essential for close relationships to trust the other and in life in general i think its essential to at least trust either everybody or yourself in order to feel safe in the world.