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What Is It To Be Human?

GodOfOrder

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Before I begin, may I say that this post will be controversial, and may bring some to tears and others to froth at mouth. If it does either, forgive me. May I also say, that it seems as if it could fit under multiple different forum sections, among which are philosophy, spirituality, and human relationships... perhaps even the oubliette. Depending on the nature of the ensuing dialogue, or on the content of this OP it may be moved at the mods discretion.

Recently, a man died. I have never known this man, and have only heard of him. This being said, he was close to members of my immediate friends and family. He was also mentally impaired, and had an exceptionally low IQ. He possessed the mental capacity of a small child, if even.

The man was cared for by his mother until his death at age 70. The mother is 90 years old, and has spent the majority of her life attending to him. Considering his mental capacity, he seems to me to be more analogous to a house pet than a person; if not a rather remarkable house pet. However, I suppose the real question one would ask to determine that would be something along the lines of "Can he recognize other human beings, as he recognizes himself?" This is to say can he comprehend the fact that others may have thoughts and information, and can he conceive of more than that which is his own perspective. Has he the capacity?

Or to put it in a different way, consider this problem:

Susie and Sally share a room. In this room there is a box, which belongs to Susie, and a basket which belongs to Sally. Susie has a cookie, which she hides in her box. Sally, without Susie's knowledge, takes the cookie and puts it in her own box. When Susie comes back to get her cookie, will she check the box or the basket?

An outside observer who has awareness of these events, and the aforementioned higher thought- "comprehend the fact that others may have thoughts and information, and can conceive of more than that which is one's own perspective"- would answer that Susie would check her own box, because that is where Susie thinks the cookie is. One who lacks this understanding, would only understand that the cookie is in the basket. Thus they would presume that when trying to get the cookie, that Susie would go to the basket, because that is where the cookie is.

Apes, and young human children, typically answer in the latter way. They do not possess that higher level of cognition or awareness.

If the answer is yes, I can only postulate that his existence was endlessly torturous. This would mean that he could watch his siblings move up and out, and see that he was limited. It would mean understanding, by virtue of his own mental abilities, that he was inferior. It would be like staring up at the light at the top of the cave, and knowing that it shall never reach you. And as you sit at the bottom of the cave, those around you are unshackled and moving upward; and no matter ho hard they try to save you, your chains remain permanently fixed and unbroken.

If the answer is no, than one would be less than a child. One would be permanently ignorant of all but one's most immediate surroundings, and be incapable of higher thought and conceptualization. It is true that all humans are born this way. We remain this way until around the ages of three to five. But the difference between the child and the impaired man is that there is potential for the child to advance, and graduate to higher forms of thought.
(For sake of clarity, the possession of this type of thought is much different than the sentiment that it is treated with. For example, a psychopath or sociopath may recognize that other people have thoughts or feelings. They understand that others have information that they don't. Thus, their patterns of thought are sophisticated, and they use this knowledge to their advantage. They simply do not care about the feelings of these other people, and have no qualms about the moral implications of treating them badly. They may also learn from punishment, though this is a practical consideration, not a moral one.)

Barring the concept of a soul, the definition of a human seems to be centered on thought. Cognition, consciousness, and all of those wonderful things seem to be all important. The mere fact that one may possess a physical body does not seem to matter. A doll or a mannequin is not human. So, simply because one was born in a human body, does that make them human?

Upon the man's death, the family understandably fell into grief. Regardless of his alleged humanity, which I contest, this seems reasonable. The fact that man was mentally feeble does not mean that he could not feel. It also does not mean that he did not bring love and satisfaction to those who knew him. But these facts alone do not differentiate him from any dog I have ever known. Quite often, people grieve their dogs, and I have found that many grieve more for them than they do for other people.

But why is it offensive to question his humanity? If he lacks higher cognition, and awareness of others, we can't call him our equal. I also would like to point out, that I do not imply that he should have been treated badly or with distain. He, presumably had feelings. I observe that my own pets have feelings. And as any pet or living creature should be treated with dignity, so should any who are impaired. This treatment is not in itself reliant on the concept of a soul or of humanity, but merely upon recognition of other's capacity to feel.
 

ummidk

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I would say what makes someone human is falling into the DNA sequence we've classified as homo sapien(Practically, have two human parents). It's a made up word/classification, its arbitrary, why make it difficult by calling for value judgements of a person's mental processing.

Barring the concept of a soul, the definition of a human seems to be centered on thought.

Both these concepts are more claims of human exceptionalism than actually definitions of human.

Anyways I don't get what your getting at, there already is a sub classification for the mentally handicapped within our society, doesn't change them from being human though...Should we call them dogs instead?
 

Duxwing

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And even if he were a dog, then should we kill him for being sick? Doing so seems more like putting him out of our misery.

-Duxwing
 

Cognisant

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The notion of a divine soul requires that we are somehow different to lesser beings, that by mere virtue of being human we are something more, but if you don't believe in divinity then the distinction is moot, a dog is a perpetual child to us and we grieve as such, the fact that it wasn't human is of little consequence, it still thought, still felt, still loved.

Although if you follow this train of thought you may not like where it leads you, if cognition is merely information processing, feelings are factors of bias, then when you break it all down to parts you may find that we really aren't so different to dolls and mannequins, indeed in some ways they are better as only the artifice can embody the ideal, it is why only god can be perfect :smoker:
 

GodOfOrder

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I would say what makes someone human is falling into the DNA sequence we've classified as homo sapien(Practically, have two human parents). It's a made up word/classification, its arbitrary, why make it difficult by calling for value judgements of a person's mental processing.



Both these concepts are more claims of human exceptionalism than actually definitions of human.

Anyways I don't get what your getting at, there already is a sub classification for the mentally handicapped within our society, doesn't change them from being human though...Should we call them dogs instead?

Yes, it is true that humans are mere animals. We eat, breath, reproduce, and then die. But one can not deny that we are exceptional in our ability to imagine differently, and to strive for more than what our genes have programmed us to do. We have the power to defy them.

So, the judgement of this ability does have some importance. What if I change the scenario a bit? Imagine an android is created, with all the mental functions and sentimentality of an average Human. What is he, and what rights does he have? Perhaps more importantly, how do we determine that he has these rights?

In this case, it wouldn't be that the android was mentally feeble, it would be that it was fundamentally equal. So, it follows that we should regard this android as an equal. If it were any less, many would likely feel justified in treating in as something less; e.g. as a tool, or a slave, or as property.

Yet, when faced with a living being, that happens to have human DNA, sentiment becomes unnecessarily attached, even though the android would not be regarded in the same way. Is that not interesting?

I suppose when you get down to it I am really asking two things; What is the measure of a man?; and Why do we attach the sentiment to something just because it looks a certain way, or is composed of the same stuff?

It is true that we treat the mentally handicapped differently, but beyond the practical reasons for this, WHY THE SENTIMENTALITY?
 

GodOfOrder

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And even if he were a dog, then should we kill him for being sick? Doing so seems more like putting him out of our misery.

-Duxwing

Not at all. As I said, all living beings are deserving of empathy. But should is different from can. Many people try to save their pets, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't put them down if they are sick. I think it moves more down to the level of an animal rights question, rather than being a human rights question... as offensive as that may seem. I am genuinely sorry if it does.
 

Foxman49

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The notion of a divine soul requires that we are somehow different to lesser beings...

Not necessarily, the religion of Shinto in Japan believes that everything has a "soul." Even leaves supposedly have "souls." Although Shinto worshippers call them Kami, it seems functionally the same to me.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami


Back to the OP:
Philosophical debates tend to delineate the ideas raised in your post into two separate debates: What are humans? And What are Persons?

Humans are anything that biologically qualifies as a member of the species Homo Sapien. Persons (to oversimplify a bit) would be the sentient beings that humans usually qualify as. So a mentally handicapped person could (theoretically) be a human and not a person. On the flip side, a Wookie can be a person, but not a human.

So what ultimately makes one thing a person and another not so? It is a pretty difficult question, especially since we all value differing aspects of our personhood. It is difficult to find a clear unequivocal consensus. To be quite honest, I don't have any answer at the moment.
 

GodOfOrder

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Back to the OP:
Philosophical debates tend to delineate the ideas raised in your post into two separate debates: What are humans? And What are Persons?

Humans are anything that biologically qualifies as a member of the species Homo Sapien. Persons (to oversimplify a bit) would be the sentient beings that humans usually qualify as. So a mentally handicapped person could (theoretically) be a human and not a person. On the flip side, a Wookie can be a person, but not a human.

So what ultimately makes one thing a person and another not so? It is a pretty difficult question, especially since we all value differing aspects of our personhood. It is difficult to find a clear unequivocal consensus. To be quite honest, I don't have any answer at the moment.

Fair point. Perhaps it would be easier to ask the question that way. The real question has to do with the definition of a person. I suppose I should do away with my habit of using the two words human and person interchangeably, for sake of clarity.

You expressed that in far clearer terms than I, thank you. :)
 

ummidk

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So, the judgement of this ability does have some importance. What if I change the scenario a bit? Imagine an android is created, with all the mental functions and sentimentality of an average Human. What is he, and what rights does he have? Perhaps more importantly, how do we determine that he has these rights?

rights......Yea, I'm not going there

In this case, it wouldn't be that the android was mentally feeble, it would be that it was fundamentally equal. So, it follows that we should regard this android as an equal. If it were any less, many would likely feel justified in treating in as something less; e.g. as a tool, or a slave, or as property.

fundamentally equal based on similarities in mental functioning. In the same way...I could claim a mentally handicapped person is my fundamental equal because he shares alot of the same dna sequence.


What is the measure of a man?

Your measuring stick is different than somebody else's


It is true that we treat the mentally handicapped differently, but beyond the practical reasons for this, WHY THE SENTIMENTALITY?

I direct you to the teachings of GodOfOrder..."Upon the man's death, the family understandably fell into grief. Regardless of his alleged humanity, which I contest, this seems reasonable. The fact that man was mentally feeble does not mean that he could not feel. It also does not mean that he did not bring love and satisfaction to those who knew him."
 

GodOfOrder

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I direct you to the teachings of GodOfOrder..."Upon the man's death, the family understandably fell into grief. Regardless of his alleged humanity, which I contest, this seems reasonable. The fact that man was mentally feeble does not mean that he could not feel. It also does not mean that he did not bring love and satisfaction to those who knew him."

Clearly I do not dispute that. But why would one feel the need to call him a person, or to treat him as such? That goes beyond empathy, again a dog passes that same test. Or, if one was to suggest that he wasn't a person, would that cause offense and why? The answer is, generally speaking, that such a notion would cause offense to the family. In terms of practical reality, in terms of treatment of the individual in question, is the relationship more analogous to that of a pet/ owner, or is it more analogous to man/man?
 

Cherry Cola

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I don't think the capacity of a retarded individual's mental faculties in general are necessarily accurately reflected in an IQ score. But that's speculation from my side.

Regardless, same species bias is a very real thing, if it looks and sounds human then your brain will recognize it as such one some level. It isn't logical but logic is, in my experience, easily overpowered by instinct when it comes to things such as ones own children.

I remember my grandpa bringing up the dog analogue, then his son -my uncle- had a daughter who suffered a brain infection right after birth, effectively destroying more than half of her brain, leaving her with severe cerebral parsy, and very limited cognitive faculties. She can speak using sign language but there's not really much going on in terms of syntax, so its still on a pretty basic level; nonetheless, she understands humans instinctively, I've no idea what her IQ score would be if it could even reach like... 55? Yet she can get social dynamics and watch movies, make jokes etc.

My Grandpa, for all his T'ness never once, considered her as if though she were a dog, rather he treated and loved her just as much as any other of his 11 grandchildren (probably to his own surprise); actually spending more time with her in order to help out his son and his wife, since she needs a ton of care. She's the same age as I am, which is pretty cool, because I don't think she was expected to last past 18, yet she's going strong.
 

Reluctantly

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I like to think the central thing that makes a human human is an ability to understand the understanding of another (like in your OP), but also to use that to re-evaluate our actions for social prosperity.

Other life can do this though - elephants, dolphins, apes, whales, etc. But we have a lot more potential. I think it's this potential that draws us to one another and leads to identification.

But I lost my identification, so maybe that's why I don't feel I'm human anymore; I'm not sure.
 

NullPointer

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Why not define "human" in the same way that we define "dog", "cat" etc.? If it is homo sapiens sapiens, it is a "human", which should be necessary and sufficient.

Judging if something is human or not based on their ability to think is like judging whether something is a bird based on its ability to fly; we're the most intelligent animals, but making intelligence the only criterion for "humanity" seems to be missing the point. The only time that makes sense is if you're determined that "intelligent robots" should fall under the definition, but I can't see any reason for that unless you've been reading Asimov and are concerned about the feelings of theoretical future robots. Would we have to call robots in the shape of dogs, "dogs"? Why not keep the simple definition of "human", and simply give rights to anything which is "self aware OR human"?

Androids (in the half-robot, half-human sense) would still be considered "human" under the simple definition, since they would still genetically be homo sapiens sapiens. The definition gets a little weak if you consider a human patch of skin grown in a lab, but you could perhaps adjust the definition to include the requirement that the brain be human.

tl;dr - If the brain is homo sapiens sapiens, it's a human.
 
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