Helping a friend...

[RandomESFP]

One of my close friends is an INTP and I've always been curious about his detachment from his emotional side. After talking to him about it and gathering as much information as I could (I've known him for a long time, and asked other close friends of ours about their feelings/opinions of him) I've found that this emotional detachment is actually incredibly severe.

He is as far as I know never sad, happy or angry. He generally is either amused by something or annoyed by it. He's never fallen in love and the last time he can remember strong emotions it was that of anger when he was a child which he said he ended up repressing until they disappeared.

I consider him one of my best friends. He took quite a lot of time to remove a plethora of 'bad ideas' from my head and helped me improve my thinking and intuition and I feel like over the past few years I've grown a lot more in those regards.

So I was wondering if any had any experience with this sort of thing or advice on how I could basically help him get more in touch with his feelings.

 

[Jesse]

Long story short you can't. He does have feeling though. Ironically the more attention you draw to his feelings the more likely he'll examine them and then find himself amused or annoyed by them and not actually "feel" them.

I've really got no real advise. Sorry

 

[RandomESFP]

It's perplexing, it seems like he views his own emotions from the outside. But he's so constantly stoic the emotions he has are so repressed I doubt they cause' any real notice.

 

[Hadoblado]

I've gone through phases like this, usually as a precursor to depression. I don't think they're too uncommon, and I also think they are not necessarily a bad thing. In my experience at least, feelings tend to just get in the way of logical action. At particularly extreme times in my life I actually envied eunuchs for their capacity for objective thought in certain areas.
I do find such 'emotional inanimacy' to tend to hinder certain types of development somewhat, the constant indifference also leads to a complete lack of motivation.

From your name I'm guessing you might find it somewhat perturbing, I would find out what he thinks about getting in touch with his feelings. Last time someone tried to do something along the lines you are suggesting the only emotion I learned was anger.

 

[Roni]

From your name I'm guessing you might find it somewhat perturbing, I would find out what he thinks about getting in touch with his feelings. Last time someone tried to do something along the lines you are suggesting the only emotion I learned was anger.

Seconded.

I've also had an alleged friend who perceived an "emotional detachment" in me so "severe" she felt compelled as a good friend to try to "help" me.

She repeatedly left me feeling invaded, violated, misunderstood and disrespected.

Despite the fact that these feelings are in fact feelings her belief that I don't have feelings was solid.
She disregarded all my patient explanations that my emotional maturity was fine, that I merely place a different value on emotional expression than she does and that her failure to respect my emotional privacy was hurting me.

Worse than that - she accused me of hurting her with the coldness she perceived.
When I protested that not only do I have feelings but that I regularly express them to her - calmly, rationally - she declared me to be in 'denial' because my calm and rational explanations are not real feelings!

Her arrogance was complete. Her disregard for my preference to not carry on like an out-of-control three year old made her seem emotionally immature to me. Her claim to be my "friend" seemed absolutely false.

Obviously, we are no longer friends.

My advice to a genuine friend is this: listen.
Don't pry, don't assume, don't judge. Just listen.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

It's perplexing, it seems like he views his own emotions from the outside. But he's so constantly stoic the emotions he has are so repressed I doubt they cause' any real notice.

I speculate that he does have emotions just simply chooses to act on them in a suitable manner.

 

[lafmeche]

One of my close friends is an INTP and I've always been curious about his detachment from his emotional side. After talking to him about it and gathering as much information as I could (I've known him for a long time, and asked other close friends of ours about their feelings/opinions of him) I've found that this emotional detachment is actually incredibly severe.

He is as far as I know never sad, happy or angry. He generally is either amused by something or annoyed by it. He's never fallen in love and the last time he can remember strong emotions it was that of anger when he was a child which he said he ended up repressing until they disappeared.

I consider him one of my best friends. He took quite a lot of time to remove a plethora of 'bad ideas' from my head and helped me improve my thinking and intuition and I feel like over the past few years I've grown a lot more in those regards.

So I was wondering if any had any experience with this sort of thing or advice on how I could basically help him get more in touch with his feelings.

It's perplexing, it seems like he views his own emotions from the outside. But he's so constantly stoic the emotions he has are so repressed I doubt they cause' any real notice.

I have to echo what the others are saying. INTPs definitely do have emotions; we're just not generally very expressive. Trying to force an INTP to be more expressive or convince him that he's in some way WRONG because he isn't expressive is asking for trouble. I mean that literally. You could potentially damage your friendship or cause other problems if you push too hard. INTP emotions are sometimes described (may or may not be fairly) as 'child-like' or 'explosive'. We have emotions, but we often don't show them like others expect us to until something pushes us over the edge. When we reach that point, look out.

My advice is the same as Roni's: sit back and listen. Your friend is not broken. (at least not based on what I see in this thread)

Edit: After rereading, I feel I should add that it is possible for INTPs to express themselves more 'normally', especially with friends/partners. It generally takes a level of comfort that is difficult for us and some of us really just never express ourselves, regardless of comfort level. Don't take it personally; we're just lost in a giant labyrinth of our own thoughts.

 

[RandomESFP]

Believe me I've taken quite a bit of time to sit back and examine this situation as well as I can myself. I know not to try and pry because I understand pretty decently how he works. I asked him about his emotions and I'm in no way trying to force him to 'develope' them. I began this mainly by asking him when he felt emotions most strongly (at a young age, mainly anger) and if he felt emotionally detached. He said he does feel emotionally detached and wished things made him happy and sad instead of slightly amused or annoyed. I know well enough to not impose my strong feeling senses as a guideline of something he should be able to emulate, I'm sure he'd never be able to be immersed in them as I usually am but I'm racking my mind for some sort of 'exercise' I could introduce to help him 'feel' more because I made sure to see if this is something he'd want to do or not well before I tried to do anything in the first place.

I'm also doing my best to not be ignorant about this. I'm well aware that even if I can help him 'feel' more it might be something different than what I recognize that as.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Well, I would suggest making a move on him. That would probably get him to react based on emotions.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

You know, i laughed sooooo so hard when i read "He is as far as I know never sad, happy or angry. He generally is either amused by something or annoyed by it."

I have never thought to put it into words like that, but that is me more or less. Good stuff.

Anyway, to remain on topic, it is hard to say. All i could say is, maybe give us a little more information? how old is he? etc.

I don't really think there is anything "severe" going on, he is probably just like most of the INTP on this forum, half of us are too oblivious to recognize emotions, even when they are smacking us in the face. If you ask me, any severe emotional detachment would not be something you just assume is happening, it would be obvious to you and everyone around you, he would disregard your feelings, and the feelings of everyone else. He wouldnt be concerned with your thoughts about his feelings and would probably just not care at all if you were his friend or not.

There could definitely be a mild detachment but that is nothing to be too concerned with when dealing with an INTP, we are so used to working with logic and reasoning as opposed to raw feeling that we dismiss our own feelings and emotions because we assume they are inferior to outright thought. This can be detrimental of course, so if anything the best you could do is remind him every now and then that he is a person just like anyone else and that he needs to loosen up once in a while. Do things to introduce feelings to him instead of just telling him to feel.

An interesting thing you could try is maybe get him a surprise gift, something special, something that (without words) will tell him how much he means to you and how happy you are to know him. It would have to be something serious so he couldn't revert to joking about it to show how happy he is. It will most likely just lead to him awkwardly saying thank you, but i am sure he will have strong enough emotions for him to recognize and analyze for himself, and if you are lucky he might cry. If you ask me, that would be a good sign that there are some emotions brewing in there.

 

[ElvenVeil]

An interesting thing you could try is maybe get him a surprise gift, something special, something that (without words) will tell him how much he means to you and how happy you are to know him. It would have to be something serious so he couldn't revert to joking about it to show how happy he is. It will most likely just lead to him awkwardly saying thank you, but i am sure he will have strong enough emotions for him to recognize and analyze for himself, and if you are lucky he might cry. If you ask me, that would be a good sign that there are some emotions brewing in there.

I wouldn't try out this one =p .. If he is just a little smart he will see through this. He will without a doubt see that you are trying to be nice but that will not be what he focuses on.. he will be focusing on something along the lines 'you are trying to manipulate me... do you really think this will work?'

you will push him in the wrong direction and imo, there is just about one good way to deal with this. If you are to make him talk more about himself you must motivate him.. In order to motivate him you need to get into the 'why' .. Why he think it is that he is emotional detatched.. That will open a gab of speculation, which the INTP simply thrives on.. A matter that is not understood becomes interesting to them, as they see an oppertunity to also solve the problem by thinking.

This is at very least what I would suggest you do. Work on his level to understand him and help him that way to understand himself..

Another option could be to just give him the link to the INTP forum and let us handle him : p

 

[MissQuote]

Believe me I've taken quite a bit of time to sit back and examine this situation as well as I can myself. I know not to try and pry because I understand pretty decently how he works. I asked him about his emotions and I'm in no way trying to force him to 'develope' them. I began this mainly by asking him when he felt emotions most strongly (at a young age, mainly anger) and if he felt emotionally detached. He said he does feel emotionally detached and wished things made him happy and sad instead of slightly amused or annoyed. I know well enough to not impose my strong feeling senses as a guideline of something he should be able to emulate, I'm sure he'd never be able to be immersed in them as I usually am but I'm racking my mind for some sort of 'exercise' I could introduce to help him 'feel' more because I made sure to see if this is something he'd want to do or not well before I tried to do anything in the first place.

I'm also doing my best to not be ignorant about this. I'm well aware that even if I can help him 'feel' more it might be something different than what I recognize that as.

As an "exercise" instead of typical talking about feelings to explore them you could perhaps spark his interest somehow in reading/learning about what is going on iside his body and brain on a physiological level when he has emotions about something. This way he could "explore" his feelings in a way that is quite comfortable and far more interesting (I'd guess) to him than feeling and expressing them.

For example, spark up a conversation by asking him something like "I wonder what chemicals are released in the brain when someone feels [insert emotion]." or (look it up yourself first, of course) "I was reading about the way neurotransmitters regulate [such and such] and found it interesting for this reason..."

In doing this you may grab his attention and interest to learn about emotion on a level he finds stimulating, and it is possible that as he does so he will either realise that he does in fact "feel" a lot more than he lets on, to himself or others, or he may end up finding amusement in indulging in the emotions themselves when he has them because now he knows on a biological level what is going really going on and how it has value.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

Lol a gift is a gift, they are meant to excite emotions, which in this case is all the OP wants, there are no alterior motives. It is entirely innocent. The worst that could happen is he feels a little experimented with, which im sure if he was going to feel bothered by that he wouldn't have been so willing to talk about his anger as a child, etc.

Besides, our esfp friend here even said "I'm racking my mind for some sort of 'exercise' I could introduce to help him 'feel' more because I made sure to see if this is something he'd want to do or not well before I tried to do anything in the first place."

Obviously has permission to poke around in his head.

 

[digital angel]

One of my close friends is an INTP and I've always been curious about his detachment from his emotional side. After talking to him about it and gathering as much information as I could (I've known him for a long time, and asked other close friends of ours about their feelings/opinions of him) I've found that this emotional detachment is actually incredibly severe.

He is as far as I know never sad, happy or angry. He generally is either amused by something or annoyed by it. He's never fallen in love and the last time he can remember strong emotions it was that of anger when he was a child which he said he ended up repressing until they disappeared.

I consider him one of my best friends. He took quite a lot of time to remove a plethora of 'bad ideas' from my head and helped me improve my thinking and intuition and I feel like over the past few years I've grown a lot more in those regards.

So I was wondering if any had any experience with this sort of thing or advice on how I could basically help him get more in touch with his feelings.

My advice is to give him space and time. The decision to open up has to be his. When he does, listen to him and don't judge him. Also, if he tells you something in confidence, honor that confidence.

I wouldn't worry about him never having fallen in love. Some INTPs are loners. Lastly, if he never opens up to you, don't take it personally. Another thing is to remember, he's smart so he may see right through you.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

I may seem like a dick saying this, but i get the feeling you guys are underestimating the OP's intelligence and just assuming they are some feeler trying to pry. If you actually read the posts you can see the person obviously understands their personality and the personality of their friend. And you would see that not only have they constantly insisted they aren't just trying to pry, they have thoroughly discussed this with their friend and he is open to the idea.

I wont say any names you know who you are.

 

[lafmeche]

I may seem like a dick saying this, but i get the feeling you guys are underestimating the OP's intelligence and just assuming they are some feeler trying to pry. If you actually read the posts you can see the person obviously understands their personality and the personality of their friend. And you would see that not only have they constantly insisted they aren't just trying to pry, they have thoroughly discussed this with their friend and he is open to the idea.

I wont say any names you know who you are.

Or perhaps some of us are just taking the cautious route, because we've seen similar situations that have unnecessarily blown up into serious issues (or, frankly, we see a normal INTP who is misunderstood). It has nothing to do with intelligence or reading comprehension. People work differently, and to say that it's about intelligence is vastly oversimplifying the (potential) issues at hand.

Regardless of what's going on... In my experience, it's pretty much always better to let an INTP figure himself out. Once the door is opened and an INTP realizes that something might be 'wrong', he will usually analyze it to death anyway. From what I've read, he seems like many INTPs, so I don't think there's anything serious (or even very interesting) going on here.

Anyway, none of this means that RandomESFP necessarily needs to completely drop the subject, but I always stress caution when approaching feely stuff with INTPs. RandomESFP certainly appears to already know this, based on the thread. HOWEVER, I've seen many feely types claim to know what's going on and insist that they're being careful, only to have things fall apart because of the complete mismatch in how feelers/thinkers see and interact with the world.

Since it could POSSIBLY turn into an issue, I advocate caution. Take it or leave, just like any other words on the internet.

 

[Claytoe]

I have always felt like I am really open with my emotions with people I trust. What those people feel maybe something else entirely.

There are two basic premises people close to me could observe to have a more communicative relationship.

1)I don't often want to talk about my feelings.
2)I often want to talk about the thoughts behind my feelings.

What this normally means is that I would rather talk about my feelings as abstract concepts or as in association with ideas I have. Its a language and process I am comfortable with.
What am I feeling right now? Everything, all the emotions, be more specific, there are a lot of things in the world to have a lot of feelings about. The greatest emotional service my partner provides to me is helping me piece out the feelings from ideas, the cost for providing that service is that she hears a lot of crazy shit from me, even more when I am upset.

You don't speak Dutch to a Spaniard and expect a stellar conversation.
You can't speak to someone of feelings with someone who probably has a much different emotional vernacular than you and expect them to be able to satisfy your needs for the conversation. If you would like him to open up to you learn to speak the language a little.

Good Luck!

ps: "Well, I would suggest making a move on him. That would probably get him to react based on emotions." I second this strongly

 

[RandomESFP]

Well, I would suggest making a move on him. That would probably get him to react based on emotions.

Are you suggesting I rape him?

 

[RandomESFP]

He's 21 years old, I think his IQ is somewhere around 140 so he's more likely to bring up those neurological 'emotional' concepts than I am. He's given quite a bit of thought to this himself, and he is generally interested in figuring out the reason for his lack of emotion. From what I've spoken about with him, he believes a large portion of it is in line with typical characteristics of people diagnosed with ADD.

 

[xbox]

The more you are in his face about trying to open up, the more he's going to remain in his shell.. Like everyone else said, give him time and space.

I guarantee you that he feels emotions, he just doesn't express it. You may just outwardly "see" it as him being expressionless which you may interpret as emotionless.

What caught my eye was that you said you want to help him get in touch with his Feeling side... I'm positive that he can tell that you feel concern about his lack of display of emotions. This is something normal to him though, and he doesn't view as a problem. The more concern you display about him, the less likely he will open up. As an INTP, I didn't appreciate when people said that about me. As a result, I was often inside my shell around them, and never came out. I knew it frustrated people.

I suggest you just ask for his opinions on things or ask open ended questions on random things, it will get him to talk.

 

[RandomESFP]

The more you are in his face about trying to open up, the more he's going to remain in his shell.. Like everyone else said, give him time and space.

I guarantee you that he feels emotions, he just doesn't express it. You may just outwardly "see" it as him being expressionless which you may interpret as emotionless.

What caught my eye was that you said you want to help him get in touch with his Feeling side... I'm positive that he can tell that you feel concern about his lack of display of emotions. This is something normal to him though, and he doesn't view as a problem. The more concern you display about him, the less likely he will open up. As an INTP, I didn't appreciate when people said that about me. As a result, I was often inside my shell around them, and never came out. I knew it frustrated people.

I suggest you just ask for his opinions on things or ask open ended questions on random things, it will get him to talk.

I'm generally rather aloof when I approach the subject, we'll talk about it when he feels like it and not at all if he doesn't. We've spent the past few hours talking about the subject and then other random semi-related concepts. We'll engage the concept when we want but I know that it's important to wander into other captivating ideas he's finding more interesting at the moment.

 

[Sad Lions]

I actually have a very similar story, I used to get really angry when I was a kid. Although, I would now mostly attribute it to feeding of my Fe mom, by the time I was around 12, my memory is of me always being calm and arguing rationally while my mom kept screaming at me. Not really her fault, kind of a long, personal and insignificant story.

What is interesting is that I recall using the same approach for suppressing my emotions, I would try to identify the experience, and interpret the meaning. Eventually I just started feeling less and not only anger; feelings in general seemed to have less intensity. I think feelings, except for being instrumental, does not really matter that much TBH, which is probably a common idea among INTPs, its only a problem if its a problem and by then your kind of screwed.

If your friend, for whatever reason, actually wants to feel with a greater intensity. I think it might be like a Zen thing, like releasing a control valve (read: localized brain function controlling emotions). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but intuitively I would guess that the intensity you feel any emotions are like most cognitive abilities, it is in a comparative and relative sense, so if you feel one emotion with a stronger intensity, the self report of the lack thereof will also be affected by the same intensity.

 

[Awaken]

I would say life experiences, kids, and/or pets would be the most effective way(anything that would make him responsible for another living being). We understand other peoples concerns about our lack of emotional expression, but talking to a "feeler" about it has to be one of the most uncomfortable experiences to subject an INTP to.


I have found that the emotional state of others around me influence me greatly. If someone is starting an emotional conversation with me, I will instinctively shut down because my brain will have no choice but to "mirror" that emotion in order to properly communicate on the same wavelength.

If you must intervene, I think that it would take a lot of introspection on your part first. I have found that most people are not aware of their body language, voice inflection, etc that impart emotions. If you are not aware of this, and "project" them onto your friend during a conversation, Im sure he will not open up to you unless it is an explosive buildup of emotion that he can no longer contain(this is not a good situation) and an INTP losing control around someone just marks that person as a danger.

On the otherhand, with introspection, if you are able to analyze your emotions and intellectually relay your POV to him in a debate of minds, Im sure he will open up a lot more. Just make sure you keep any emotions of your own, except maybe passion, at bay or he will most likely regard you as an irrelevant source of information.

 

[Sad Lions]

Just make sure you keep any emotions of your own, except maybe passion, at bay or he will most likely regard you as an irrelevant source of information.

This is without a doubt one of my least favourite personal trait. I will usually listen to the other person for the first 3-6 seconds. Then I either extrapolate the persons idea (out loud), zone out (all fluff goes here), or most commonly, I spend the rest of the time thinking of the best way to explain to the other person why they are wrong.

I don't make that many new friends.

 

[dala]

I think you should reconsider two things. First, consider whether emotional distance is actually a bad thing. I find ESFPs to be clingy and suffocating, but that doesn't mean that I think there is anything inherently wrong with being that way.

Second, is it actually possible to change someone who is emotionally distant? Or, to put it another way, do you think it would be possible for you to not be emotionally expressive? My guess is that the best you could do is teach your friend to express emotions that he does not feel, creating dissonance in how he views himself.

If your friend actually wants to change rather than just explore why things are the way they are, then he can do it himself. You are only going to get frustrated and annoy him by trying to do it for him.

One other thing is that you should be careful what you wish for. I know that I tend to absorb emotion from my environment (no idea if this is an INTP thing or my own personal neurosis). For instance, some types of music are almost physically painful, and I find it almost impossible to stay in a group of people when there is constant tension. Were I not able to control that, I would probably be a train wreck. Maybe your friend is the same way.

 

[Claytoe]

If you are always saying things like "lack of emotion" it makes me FEEL like you haven't been paying attention to what people are telling you here. Feelings aren't irrelevant to an INTP, they are something to mitigate when making choices and approaching information. Recognize that having an emotion and acting in slavish devotion to it are different things. While I may feel frustration at my girlfriend, for say not understanding that dissatisfaction and sadness are not the same feeling (Just happened), I know that the feeling will fade but the consequence of me acting out may not.

It seems to me that you don't really want to understand him, that you want him to become understandable to you. That is selfish.

"Are you suggesting I rape him?" Are you being intentionally obtuse?

There now you have carbon evidence of an INTP have feelings at you, those feelings; disappointment and irritation.

If this comes off as overly aggressive I apologize, this conception is just a persistant, niggling millstone around my neck. I would hazard a guess to say I am not alone on this.

Edit: On read through I realize this was written under to heavy of a cloud of multi-source frustration and . Its clear you mean well and I apologize again. Unless I knew you to be thick-skinned and trustworthy I would not be this forthright with you in person, I would control my anger or wait to speak until the feeling had settled, so I guess this is illustrative in its own way.

Writing my edit there I thought of something key to the problem, your friend needs to feel like there will be very few negative consequences to sharing, untrue as it may be. Speaking personally, I need a soft place to lay down my feelings/