Integrating the inferior function

[Shut the Fe Up!]

Hello everyone,

I spent most of my teens and early-mid 20's repressing my inferior Fe before I experienced the highs of a relationship, and then all the lows, which made me curse my Fe with a vengeance!

I am now ready to try again with a relationship, but as (mainly) all the problems with my previous relationships were due to my under-developed inferior, I am at that stage where I want to integrate my Fe with Ti.

I have been reading this article about it, and while it provides advice, it's more of an ACME fool-proof plan rather than guidelines I can follow. I was wondering if anyone had any real advice for doing this? I am fed up of my Fe - I feel like a bipolar sociopath with schizoid tendencies and a stalking habit and would vehemently prefer the calm associated with integration. Would love to know what other INTP's have done/tried to help with this.

http://personalityjunkie.com/11/integrating-inferior-function-through-dominant/

 

[Ink]

Integration is mostly about becoming a more relaxed, harmonious, easy-going person I think. I don't think anyone can write a step by step guide on how to do it, it's too different between individuals

 

[Architect]

First I can tell you what not to do. Do not try and integrate the inferior by appeasing it, or by integrating it directly. Don't touch it directly in any way really, doing so sets you up for a grip experience, which is what you suffered from before by the sounds of it.

Integrating it is kind of like seeing your blind spot. Don't 'look' (interact) with your inferior directly, 'look' instead (interact with/strengthen) your dominant and auxiliary with your peripheral vision aware of your inferior. I'll give an example.

Say you need to do the normal social activities we all need to do; for instance visit a sick relative in a hospital. Frankly an INTP probably wouldn't want to do this. There are plenty of extroverted S relatives who want nothing better to go and chit-chat the relative, why do you need to be there? Be honest with yourself, that is what your core nature tells you, that you going won't make a difference one way or the other. The other relatives will be there to take care of any issues and they actually want to do it. This is what Ti/Ne tells you. Ah but unconsciously your inferior Fe gnaws at your soul. It knows that you should go, whether it makes sense or no. So you have a conflict.

The wrong response is to ignore your feelings of not wanting to go, or worse pretend that you want to do it. That is caving into your inferior. What you need to do is be honest with yourself, recognize that frankly you don't want to do it, and that's OK. You're not a bad, hateful person, you're just somebody that recognizes that you're not going to add much to the situation and you have better ways to spend your time. This is strengthening your dominant. And guess what? With Ti/Ne being validated like this, Fe is put in it's place and does what it is supposed to do, advise them. This is when Fe quietly says "yes, it's not logical, but that person will appreciate you being there." And maybe because of that they'll get well faster, because of the emotional support.

So you can go, fully admitting that you don't want to and that's OK, but knowing (via Fe) also that there are non logical reasons for doing it. Every part of your psyche is satisfied, and Fe isn't getting the upper hand, but is being listened to.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[TimeAsylums]

First I can tell you...
Hopefully that makes sense.

Beautiful explanation, I wish I could globally spread the mbti at least, would appease so many people wondering why a good percentage of themselves are just not like other people.

 

[Architect]

I wish I could globally spread the mbti at least, would appease so many people wondering why a good percentage of themselves are just not like other people.

I'd be happy if they would use MBTI in the school system. Otherwise I'm shocked that apparently mainstream Psych doesn't recognize MBTI as a valid discipline. Which shows how messed up mainstream Psych is.

 

[Ink]

The russians are ahead on this I believe, socionics has a strong grounding over there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics#Recognition

 

[BigApplePi]

The wrong response is to ignore your feelings of not wanting to go, or worse pretend that you want to do it.

Do what Architect says. Practice looking at your feelings. They may need some unraveling if you have more than one at the same time.

This is my practice, Fi, maybe. But I accept it: Fe. How about you?

 

[Architect]

Practice looking at your feelings. They may need some unraveling if you have more than one at the same time.

Careful! That could be interpreted in multiple ways. Maybe better say "Practice looking at your inclinations"

 

[BigApplePi]

Careful! That could be interpreted in multiple ways. Maybe better say "Practice looking at your inclinations"

Elaborate? There are feelings behind inclinations.

 

[TimeAsylums]

I'd be happy if they would use MBTI in the school system.

If only.

Otherwise I'm shocked that apparently mainstream Psych doesn't recognize MBTI as a valid discipline. Which shows how messed up mainstream Psych is.

Lol without this issue, mainstream psych (modern/pop psych) is an issue itself (I've brought this up multiple times) but it's because of reductionism once again, which i don't have a problem with itself, it's great for the sciences, but because we can't yet physically prove the existence of any of the functions or anything Jung said whatsoever, even if the correlation was like 95% and the statistics match up, it wouldn't be integrated.

If you looked at the issue of (Psychiatry v Psychology) (although they are both issues themselves)...

it's horrendous.

(it's a little [actually quite a lot] better in Europe...for the most part anyway)

yes I will not shutup about Eu. lol

Also, seeing as the MBTI put it into a nice little-tight system, makes it very easy to integrate if one should desire to do so...hence a lot of businesses (even US) giving it to their employees, or people using it to choose career paths etc...

But as far as mainstream/pop psych goes, the best bullshit you can get is 'basically' www.psychologytoday.com, however once you've delved past Freud and into Jung, it becomes, "wait, isn't that obvious" "well, yes but we needed to prove it."

 

[BigApplePi]

@Architect

Careful! That could be interpreted in multiple ways. Maybe better say "Practice looking at your inclinations"

I am not understanding what you're saying here. Have I said something doubtful or misleading? Is it a big deal or a small one? What multiple ways?

 

[Architect]

@ArchitectI am not understanding what you're saying here. Have I said something doubtful or misleading? Is it a big deal or a small one? What multiple ways?

"Practice looking at your feelings" sounds like engaging with your inferior which is the opposite advice we are giving here on this thread. I prefer "inclinations" as that is a more neutral word. That is all, not a big deal.

 

[BigApplePi]

If you will allow me, I will give an interpretation of the personality junkie link from the OP.

We all recognize, at least on an intuitive or experiential level, the importance of both our dominant and inferior function.

I'll choose the Ti/Fe functions of the INTP to illustrate.

The problem is that, especially early in life, these two functions can seem ireconciliable.

It's not that they are irreconcilable, it's rather that they occupy two different dimensions. Ti looks at how we think about many things. Fe is the objective value we place on each of those things. Experience and value of experience are two different things.

Their aims and approaches seem too disparate for any sort of meaningful or lasting integration. Invariably, this begets a love-hate or indulgent-avoidant relationship with our inferior function.

Integration doesn't mean "at the same time." We can integrate (Ne/Ni) but can't think and evaluate at exactly the same time ... unless our intuition (Ne/Ni) is highly developed.

We indulge the inferior function when we try to satisfy it apart from the dominant function. An INTP, for instance, might temporarily forsake his dominant function, Introverted Thinking (Ti), by becoming infatuated with someone he has hardly even spoken to (Fe). While indulging the inferior function can generate incredible highs, we eventually learn that such highs are unsustainable and incapable of producing lasting satisfaction. We discover that indulging the inferior function creates a bipolar existence, one characterized by extreme highs and extreme lows.

Look at this. Ti and Fe are vast areas covering lots of existence. An INTP may have an entire encyclopedia of life to think about and because Ti may be an INTP's specialty, they may be good at it. Rattling around in a full encyclopedia is accepted and not noticed. But Fe is not an INTP's specialty. They are fated to "rattle around in it" just as much as they are with Ti. It's just that they suffer from the failure to evaluate. It would be expected having random uncontrolled feelings will bring suffering.

While indulging the inferior function is not a desirable long-term solution, neither is ignoring or avoiding it.

Yes.

The first key point to recognize is that integrating the inferior function is rarely easy or obvious. INTPs, for instance, should not be naive enough to believe that getting married will somehow resolve their Fe-related issues. Nor will making an effort to spend more time engaging with people (although this may provide temporary relief). Even INTPs who have managed to develop relatively good people skills may be far from reconciling their Ti and Fe.

Yes.

This is because integration is a far more subtle process than trying to directly engage or develop the inferior function.
The solution to the dominant-inferior debacle tends to emerge more subtly and gradually.

I would put it this way: Each and every thought (Ti) would have to be evaluated (Fe). A beginner in life is not going to do that. They can't as evaluation requires comparison of experiences. Later in life having experiences, evaluation of particular thinking is far more easily done.

Instead of developing and engaging the dominant and inferior on a separate basis, it involves an integration of the inferior function through the dominant

Sure. A good thinker might as well use it.

For many people, the path to integration remains unclear until the second half of life. Thus, we might view the first half of life as a period of learning and preparation, often characterized by a process of trial-and-error.

The 2nd half of life contains the experience.

 

[Shut the Fe Up!]

Thank you everyone for your input.

Integration is mostly about becoming a more relaxed, harmonious, easy-going person I think. I don't think anyone can write a step by step guide on how to do it, it's too different between individuals

I was hoping that as we're INTP's, we have similar thought processes and encounter a lot of the same problems. Was hoping we'd be able to create the perfect step by step guide, lol. Or at least a vague blueprint....

It's a shame there wasn't some warning like 10 years ago, so that I could have started this process in my teens rather than live like Spock.

Also, seeing as the MBTI put it into a nice little-tight system, makes it very easy to integrate if one should desire to do so...hence a lot of businesses (even US) giving it to their employees, or people using it to choose career paths etc...

Unfortunately, that hasn't occurred in any company I've worked in, but that would be amazing. I studied counselling a few years ago, and it requires being 100% in touch and aware of what you're feeling - but sometimes my inner-Spock feels nothing. MBTI wasn't mentioned in counselling, which would have made some kind of sense, but unfortunately not.

I would put it this way: Each and every thought (Ti) would have to be evaluated (Fe). A beginner in life is not going to do that. They can't as evaluation requires comparison of experiences. Later in life having experiences, evaluation of particular thinking is far more easily done.

That makes a lot of sense and is something I started doing during counselling, and still *try* to achieve..... Emphasis on try! I've found it's difficult in real life - I'm either always in familiar situations or I'm in a relationship and I'm more trying to analyse my partners feelings, not my own. And yes, I know how backwards that sounds.

My Si is really developing at the mo, and it's helping me remember the past and compare it, but a lot of the issues were Fe-related, and my Fe hasn't developed much to help me find a solution! Really wish there was a nice and easy way to develop that Fe very quickly!

 

[Shut the Fe Up!]

First I can tell you what not to do. Do not try and integrate the inferior by appeasing it, or by integrating it directly. Don't touch it directly in any way really, doing so sets you up for a grip experience, which is what you suffered from before by the sounds of it.

Integrating it is kind of like seeing your blind spot. Don't 'look' (interact) with your inferior directly, 'look' instead (interact with/strengthen) your dominant and auxiliary with your peripheral vision aware of your inferior. I'll give an example.

Say you need to do the normal social activities we all need to do; for instance visit a sick relative in a hospital. Frankly an INTP probably wouldn't want to do this. There are plenty of extroverted S relatives who want nothing better to go and chit-chat the relative, why do you need to be there? Be honest with yourself, that is what your core nature tells you, that you going won't make a difference one way or the other. The other relatives will be there to take care of any issues and they actually want to do it. This is what Ti/Ne tells you. Ah but unconsciously your inferior Fe gnaws at your soul. It knows that you should go, whether it makes sense or no. So you have a conflict.

The wrong response is to ignore your feelings of not wanting to go, or worse pretend that you want to do it. That is caving into your inferior. What you need to do is be honest with yourself, recognize that frankly you don't want to do it, and that's OK. You're not a bad, hateful person, you're just somebody that recognizes that you're not going to add much to the situation and you have better ways to spend your time. This is strengthening your dominant. And guess what? With Ti/Ne being validated like this, Fe is put in it's place and does what it is supposed to do, advise them. This is when Fe quietly says "yes, it's not logical, but that person will appreciate you being there." And maybe because of that they'll get well faster, because of the emotional support.

So you can go, fully admitting that you don't want to and that's OK, but knowing (via Fe) also that there are non logical reasons for doing it. Every part of your psyche is satisfied, and Fe isn't getting the upper hand, but is being listened to.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Thank you for this Architect, this is more helpful than you'll ever know!

 

[BigApplePi]

Let me give you a reaction to something you said.

I'm either always in familiar situations or I'm in a relationship and I'm more trying to analyse my partners feelings, not my own. And yes, I know how backwards that sounds.

Lots of luck on "analyzing" your partner's feelings. To me that won't help much. What you are after is the whole of how your partner feels. That's an Ne function. Let me tell you a story of a piece of a movie I watched last night.

"You Can Count on Me" was the film. A nice, normal guy asks his girlfriend if she'd like to get married. She hesitates and won't answer. To another she says a year ago she would have said yes. We find getting married would make her feel "like being in a cage." That's the kind of person she is.

Now how is the nice guy going to analyze her true feelings? He is chasing a wild goose. She won't tell him because she'd hurt his feelings. Solution: he has to find out what kind of a person she is. Possibly that's an Ne function, not analysis.

My Si is really developing at the mo, and it's helping me remember the past and compare it, but a lot of the issues were Fe-related, and my Fe hasn't developed much to help me find a solution! Really wish there was a nice and easy way to develop that Fe very quickly!

Tell your specific story here. Someone with more Fe experience may give you clues.

 

[Shut the Fe Up!]

Tell your specific story here. Someone with more Fe experience may give you clues.

My first relationship wasn't exactly a relationship - more I loved him, he would tolerate me then ignore me when I tried to pin him down. I would feel upset and hurt and be angry because I knew he wasn't upset about not being with me, and was probably not even thinking about me! We would make plans, and he would simply not turn up, he'd wait hours or even days to reply to a text/email and the result was that I felt insecure, uncertain, lonely and abandoned.

The 2nd guy went abroad for work, he wasn't able to reach me by email or phone, which I didn't know. After 3 days of non-contact, I assumed he wasn't thinking about me, didn't miss me and was having fun while I was hurt that he hadn't text/emailed when he *promised* he would. He wrote about 4 days later - he had to hack through the company firewall to FB me. I was glad he had remembered me, but he didn't seem to miss me. From that point on, I kind of emotionally checked out as I felt he wasn't there. He ended it a month or so later - he said he didn't love me and never had.

Both these experiences did mess me up. If a friend says they'll ring/text but don't, I don't care. When it's a boyfriend - I go straight to feeling hurt and abandoned and worried that I'll never be loved, that all relationships are bad, and that I'm happier single. I want to program that shit out of me, because it hurts like hell and even though it was true for these two guys, it won't always be true.

The 3rd relationship - he did love me.... until he stopped. We drifted apart because he put his work and his family above me and made no time for me, so we couldn't talk and seldom met. He was ENFP so we had quite a few arguments over communication - we cannot see the other persons viewpoint. His is always emotional and try as I can, I cannot put myself in his shoes to see him point, and his logical arguments were plain retarded. Towards the end, he would cancel last minute (like the 1st guy), wouldn't call as he was too tired (like the 2nd guy) and I just felt like I wasn't on his mind, while he was on mine.

I've just started a new relationship, and he'll promise to call later but be exhausted so he'll just text, he's not allowed to text at work so can take me hours to get a reply. I'm getting paranoid and putting unfair qualities on him that the others were guilty of doing. My Si is remembering all the things that happened in the past that hurt me, and is making me experience that hurt again. I don't want to impose rules on him - I want him to want to speak to me and text me, not impose SLA's forcing him to contact me!

I understand that I am being paranoid, and that these fears with him are unfounded. If he gets back home late, he won't call in fear of waking me. That's sweet. He'll text at 7am, instead of midnight. It's gentlemanly. At the moment, my Si and Fe are trying to pull me into a bi-polar rollercoaster. I want peace! I want to integrate that damn inferior function, but thinking through these problems doesn't work, because it's based on my paranoia. I tell myself that I'm wrong, that he cares, and the next day - I receive proof. But it seems like I need to have this battle every couple of days, and I was sick of it 3 years ago!

 

[Duxwing]

My first relationship wasn't exactly a relationship - more I loved him, he would tolerate me then ignore me when I tried to pin him down. I would feel upset and hurt and be angry because I knew he wasn't upset about not being with me, and was probably not even thinking about me! We would make plans, and he would simply not turn up, he'd wait hours or even days to reply to a text/email and the result was that I felt insecure, uncertain, lonely and abandoned.

The 2nd guy went abroad for work, he wasn't able to reach me by email or phone, which I didn't know. After 3 days of non-contact, I assumed he wasn't thinking about me, didn't miss me and was having fun while I was hurt that he hadn't text/emailed when he *promised* he would. He wrote about 4 days later - he had to hack through the company firewall to FB me. I was glad he had remembered me, but he didn't seem to miss me. From that point on, I kind of emotionally checked out as I felt he wasn't there. He ended it a month or so later - he said he didn't love me and never had.

Both these experiences did mess me up. If a friend says they'll ring/text but don't, I don't care. When it's a boyfriend - I go straight to feeling hurt and abandoned and worried that I'll never be loved, that all relationships are bad, and that I'm happier single. I want to program that shit out of me, because it hurts like hell and even though it was true for these two guys, it won't always be true.

The 3rd relationship - he did love me.... until he stopped. We drifted apart because he put his work and his family above me and made no time for me, so we couldn't talk and seldom met. He was ENFP so we had quite a few arguments over communication - we cannot see the other persons viewpoint. His is always emotional and try as I can, I cannot put myself in his shoes to see him point, and his logical arguments were plain retarded. Towards the end, he would cancel last minute (like the 1st guy), wouldn't call as he was too tired (like the 2nd guy) and I just felt like I wasn't on his mind, while he was on mine.

I've just started a new relationship, and he'll promise to call later but be exhausted so he'll just text, he's not allowed to text at work so can take me hours to get a reply. I'm getting paranoid and putting unfair qualities on him that the others were guilty of doing. My Si is remembering all the things that happened in the past that hurt me, and is making me experience that hurt again. I don't want to impose rules on him - I want him to want to speak to me and text me, not impose SLA's forcing him to contact me!

I understand that I am being paranoid, and that these fears with him are unfounded. If he gets back home late, he won't call in fear of waking me. That's sweet. He'll text at 7am, instead of midnight. It's gentlemanly. At the moment, my Si and Fe are trying to pull me into a bi-polar rollercoaster. I want peace! I want to integrate that damn inferior function, but thinking through these problems doesn't work, because it's based on my paranoia. I tell myself that I'm wrong, that he cares, and the next day - I receive proof. But it seems like I need to have this battle every couple of days, and I was sick of it 3 years ago!

Every couple of days, more doubt and drain, eh? That's very rough. Maybe you should talk to a professional about your worries?

-Duxwing

 

[BigApplePi]

@Shut the Fe Up. It helps to know a little more about you as you've presented below. For general emotional issues that aren't on the surface, follow Duxwing's advice: counseling. Their specialty is to look at emotional issues. Here are some of my thoughts:

My first relationship wasn't exactly a relationship - more I loved him, he would tolerate me then ignore me when I tried to pin him down. I would feel upset and hurt and be angry because I knew he wasn't upset about not being with me, and was probably not even thinking about me! We would make plans, and he would simply not turn up, he'd wait hours or even days to reply to a text/email and the result was that I felt insecure, uncertain, lonely and abandoned.

The 2nd guy went abroad for work, he wasn't able to reach me by email or phone, which I didn't know. After 3 days of non-contact, I assumed he wasn't thinking about me, didn't miss me and was having fun while I was hurt that he hadn't text/emailed when he *promised* he would. He wrote about 4 days later - he had to hack through the company firewall to FB me. I was glad he had remembered me, but he didn't seem to miss me. From that point on, I kind of emotionally checked out as I felt he wasn't there. He ended it a month or so later - he said he didn't love me and never had.

Both these experiences did mess me up. If a friend says they'll ring/text but don't, I don't care. When it's a boyfriend - I go straight to feeling hurt and abandoned and worried that I'll never be loved, that all relationships are bad, and that I'm happier single. I want to program that shit out of me, because it hurts like hell and even though it was true for these two guys, it won't always be true.

The 3rd relationship - he did love me.... until he stopped. We drifted apart because he put his work and his family above me and made no time for me, so we couldn't talk and seldom met. He was ENFP so we had quite a few arguments over communication - we cannot see the other persons viewpoint. His is always emotional and try as I can, I cannot put myself in his shoes to see him point, and his logical arguments were plain retarded. Towards the end, he would cancel last minute (like the 1st guy), wouldn't call as he was too tired (like the 2nd guy) and I just felt like I wasn't on his mind, while he was on mine.

I've just started a new relationship, and he'll promise to call later but be exhausted so he'll just text, he's not allowed to text at work so can take me hours to get a reply. I'm getting paranoid and putting unfair qualities on him that the others were guilty of doing. My Si is remembering all the things that happened in the past that hurt me, and is making me experience that hurt again. I don't want to impose rules on him - I want him to want to speak to me and text me, not impose SLA's forcing him to contact me!

I understand that I am being paranoid, and that these fears with him are unfounded. If he gets back home late, he won't call in fear of waking me. That's sweet. He'll text at 7am, instead of midnight. It's gentlemanly. At the moment, my Si and Fe are trying to pull me into a bi-polar rollercoaster. I want peace! I want to integrate that damn inferior function, but thinking through these problems doesn't work, because it's based on my paranoia. I tell myself that I'm wrong, that he cares, and the next day - I receive proof. But it seems like I need to have this battle every couple of days, and I was sick of it 3 years ago!

It seems in every case ... and this is just me ... the same things are going on. You want these guys to care for you and continually check them out to see if they do. Here is my opinion: These things don't happen by magic. If you want someone to care for you, you must be care-aboutable. I'm sure you are. Can you tell me if you think you are or were dependent on each of these guys for your feelings? Doesn't work that way. A person must be desirable for what their own interests are outside of the other person. If someone chased after me asking me to love them, I might feel flattered at first, but then I'd want to run away. Why? Because I have to find things in them independent of me that I see attractive that give me a choice. As long as I have that choice, I'm not trapped.

Later: Identify the other person's interests. If you share some of them, what is your position? You must look inside yourself independently of the other guy. Now you have something the other person will be attracted to you for. Add other interests of yours.

Shut the Fe Up I've made some strong statements here. Tell me what you think.