intp vs. infp

[drömmaren]

Can someone give me a concrete example of how an intp and infp may react in a situation that clearly demonstrates the difference between the two? I know that each supposedly makes decisions according to different considerations, but I don't view logical reasoning and interpersonal considerations to be mutually exclusive. thanks

 

[MissQuote]

Why don't you provide an example of a situation and then INTP's and INFP's can explain how they would likely react.

I suggest this because I can tell you what my own reactions would be but I'm not particularily qualified to give what anothers may be, and it seems you would be more likely to get "concrete"(ish) examples from people speculating on their own selves and the way they know they personally work than you would from people speculating on others, which in a way would be a double speculation.

 

[Sad Lions]

I have only done a little reading about the MBTI since joining this forum, so my knowledge about this topic is somewhat limited. Your question, however, almost seem more philosophical in nature, a version of the Humean idea that "reason is a slave to the passions", or that reason always needs an affective drive. It is not clear that the two are soluble, i.e., that we are capable of explicitly only using one of the two faculties at any given time. If you imagine a perfectly rational binary A.I, it seems to be hard to imagine a volition; if not added separately. Slightly off-topic, I also think that these terms, reason/semantics/knowledge and/or emotion/motivation/drive are a bit conflated, maybe because it does not perfectly conform to explicit things in nature.

Back to the MBTI, if you are a INTP, it does not mean that you don't make "interpersonal considerations", you would still have an intuitive sense of morality, you would still have feelings. It is only saying that your dominant functions for ordering data is TiNe. I'll leave the more detailed explanations for the experts.

 

[RobdoR]

I can give you an example from me (INTP) and my wife (INFJ). NF's are very people oriented. They love people. They love connecting with people. They usually believe what people say if they like that person. They are credulous. In contrast, NT's are generally skeptical of new ideas until they have stood up to their own logic tests. I have known few INFPs who get carried away by their goals and don't see potential pitfalls. There are lot's of other examples, but I recommend getting the book, "Please Understand Me II" by David Keirsey. It's funny, I've read the original book as well as his revision, and the first one is more personal, while the revision is much more consistent and codified. He is an INTP, and his personality shows up in the writing style.

Here's another example: My wife and I like to help people discover their temperaments, but the way we go about it is very different. I like to start with the history of temperament theory to establish credibility and address skepticism right up front. My wife likes to jump right in and tell them what she thinks they are then see if the traits match up. With her way, she can jump to the wrong conclusion, and then reinforce it. With my way, I end up losing pretty much everyone who's not an NT in the first 30 seconds. It ends up working better for the people if we work together.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Have you considered INFJ?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Here's another example: My wife and I like to help people discover their temperaments, but the way we go about it is very different. I like to start with the history of temperament theory to establish credibility and address skepticism right up front. My wife likes to jump right in and tell them what she thinks they are then see if the traits match up. With her way, she can jump to the wrong conclusion, and then reinforce it. With my way, I end up losing pretty much everyone who's not an NT in the first 30 seconds. It ends up working better for the people if we work together.

I would personally want the person to understand their type for themself, so I would explain the theory - but I would be as concise as possible. I wouldn't go through all the history and whatnot of it lol.

I would explain in about a sentence what type is, then I would probably quickly go over I vs. E, the J and P functions, then combine those into the J vs. P MBTI dichotomy, then quickly explain N vs. S, T vs. F, as well as Ni+Se vs. Ne+Si and Te+Fi vs. Ti+Fe, and along the way ask the person for themself which description fits them, e.g. "so, after a brief explanation of what a judger and perceiver are, which do you see yourself as?".

Then, once they've had a guess at how they fit in with each dichotomy, I would just finish up with "Well, based on your answers, you would probably me Type X, or maybe Type Y, [brief explanation of X and Y]. I personally think [what i personally think]. If you're interested in looking further into this I can try and help you with it."

And, voila.

 

[Jennywocky]

I think the interesting thing about INFPs and INTPs is that they can actually overlap on a great deal, if the Fi values structure aligns with the INTPs natural-logic structure. Both are internal judgers/rationals, and both use Ne to feed their Ji function.

You'll see a bit more detach from the INTP, however, in terms of the logic they apply to situations. It's less of an ethical structure, more of a pattern of how the world in general works even when being applied to people. (Because of that, I think we're more liable to see things like INFPs being "betrayed by people" who don't live up to their standards, whereas INTP will often just chalk that sort of human weakness up to reality rather than necessarily view it as a personal betrayal.)

Where the difference can really come out is the inferior function, since INFPs will later in life often focus on Te -- making lists, accomplishing projects, getting their hands on things, getting them done. There's a kind of pleasure there in completion. When Te is used badly, they can even become kind of controlling.

INTPs typically become more sociable and/or fit within a social structure and learn how to contribute in their own way but can still kind of come off aimless when directed by TiNe. When Fe is used badly, you get all the typical Fe explosion / rants based on overreaction to social mores/constraints, etc.

 

[Claytoe]

That was really illuminating Jennywocky, thank you. Its really important to highlight that they are dispositions rather then behaviour sets. I 95% of the time test as an INTP but I see huge portions of myself really well reflected in a couple of other temperaments.

 

[drömmaren]

I can give you an example from me (INTP) and my wife (INFJ). NF's are very people oriented. They love people. They love connecting with people. They usually believe what people say if they like that person. They are credulous. In contrast, NT's are generally skeptical of new ideas until they have stood up to their own logic tests. I have known few INFPs who get carried away by their goals and don't see potential pitfalls. There are lot's of other examples, but I recommend getting the book, "Please Understand Me II" by David Keirsey. It's funny, I've read the original book as well as his revision, and the first one is more personal, while the revision is much more consistent and codified. He is an INTP, and his personality shows up in the writing style.

Here's another example: My wife and I like to help people discover their temperaments, but the way we go about it is very different. I like to start with the history of temperament theory to establish credibility and address skepticism right up front. My wife likes to jump right in and tell them what she thinks they are then see if the traits match up. With her way, she can jump to the wrong conclusion, and then reinforce it. With my way, I end up losing pretty much everyone who's not an NT in the first 30 seconds. It ends up working better for the people if we work together.

Thank you for that illustration. I've been trying to understand the T vs. F function for a while and most descriptions are so abstract that I have a hard time determining whether or not they hold true for me. What you've said clears it up quite a bit. I should read up on the theory a little more too.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Ji is an analytical internalised thought process. When you are being analytical about something, which is presumably most of the time, are you doing it based on precise logic (if this, then that), or a more general fitting/harmony process, based on how something feels to you (I (dis)agree with this)?

Je is a process-based externalised thought process. When you are processing something in the environment, which is going to be unnatural and draining for you to do, are you generally doing it based on social considerations, or based on impersonal standards, e.g. effciency?

(note: the second question might not provide very accurate results, since the process is probably quite rare - however, think about which of them you -can- do, but get very drained by)

 

[Architect]

I can give you an example from me (INTP) and my wife (INFJ). NF's are very people oriented. They love people. They love connecting with people. They usually believe what people say if they like that person. They are credulous. In contrast, NT's are generally skeptical of new ideas until they have stood up to their own logic tests. I have known few INFPs who get carried away by their goals and don't see potential pitfalls. There are lot's of other examples, but I recommend getting the book, "Please Understand Me II" by David Keirsey. It's funny, I've read the original book as well as his revision, and the first one is more personal, while the revision is much more consistent and codified. He is an INTP, and his personality shows up in the writing style.

Interesting, my wife also in INFJ, but she can be very critical of people. She is definitely much more people oriented than I am.

Here's another example: My wife and I like to help people discover their temperaments, but the way we go about it is very different. I like to start with the history of temperament theory to establish credibility and address skepticism right up front. My wife likes to jump right in and tell them what she thinks they are then see if the traits match up. With her way, she can jump to the wrong conclusion, and then reinforce it. With my way, I end up losing pretty much everyone who's not an NT in the first 30 seconds. It ends up working better for the people if we work together.

Yeah this is right.

 

[RobdoR]

Interesting, my wife also in INFJ, but she can be very critical of people. She is definitely much more people oriented than I am.

I know what you mean. She can be critical of people especially if their values are different from hers. Sometimes when she's critical, I play the devils advocate just to show her that there's more than one way to look at an issue. I try to shake up her world view at least once a week. Surprisingly, she usually enjoys it. She views those exercises as a way to connect with me. I think sharing the abstract N helps. I doubt may S's would put up with it for long.

 

[hilo]

I'm a female INTP dating a male INFP. He is the only INFP I have known well (I think), so consider this a "case study" more than aggregate evidence. A few observations from my end:

My INFP is not only more willing to communicate his feelings, it is obvious that he knows what they are (I am often confused about what I feel). He is also quite articulate in expressing those feelings, in a similar way to how INTP like to be very exact in their descriptions (except of feelings).

More specifically, I notice the differences in dealing with people. My INFP has a really hard time being in a "disciplinarian" role. He *thinks* he is giving criticism but it comes out very gentle because he really doesn't like conflict or hurting others. I am way more likely to be harsh on someone that deserves it, not to be mean, but because I think people who are screwing up need to know it. Their feelings enter in only as a secondary consideration (i.e., I don't want to create enemies).

While his intuitive sense of people can be very good, his optimism/dislike of conflict can lead to seeing only the good (or non-existent good) in people that honestly kind of suck. This has happened several times. Even after, in my opinion, someone has revealed themselves to be untrustworthy/selfish/dishonorable, my SO will have a hard time cutting them off. He tends to feel sorry for them, while I tend to write them off as lost causes with no shortage of contempt. He has in the past been very guilty of trying to "fix" people. I think the INFP is about the least likely type to fail the "would you have been a nazi" test, because they see what is human in everyone. It can be endearing but also maddening, and I have to stop myself from trying to "protect" him from worthless people that waste his time.

Another differentiating scenario would be a crisis situation. In general, I will go into robot mode and start doing the "logical" things (call 911, do CPR, whatever). My INFP tends to freak out. Not to say he will be useless but it's clear that the emotional side of him is very active, while for me it is even more suppressed than usual. On the other hand, if the crisis is not "someone cut their arm off on a table saw" but two people getting into a fight that might become physical, the INFP is probably a better person to have around, as when he wants to he can be very manipulative (i.e., to alter the emotional state of the combatants) to achieve a better outcome.

Anyway, hope that helps.