Is heaven truly utopia? (Non-Religious)

[BrittlePlasticDino]

Do we, as humans, truly desire contentedness, or do we only seek to have desire, and believe in a purpose? Is our purpose to seek out nothing perpetually in confidence that we will once day find our goal has been achieved? A study on rats and mice shows the potential outcome of a Utopian society: http://www.mostlyodd.com/death-by-utopia/

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Heaven is stability; equilibrium.

The experiment in question broke down because of a lack of it. A herd of rats supplied with an unlimited external food source held within limited space is hardly a microcosm of utopia. Quality of life also isn't measured by population size.

 

[Architect]

As Christoper Hitchens pointed out heaven is eternal subjugation to a parental figure. When you grow up you move out, and eventually your parents die which is a important part of becoming an adult. If you went to heaven you wouldn't only be with your parents forever looking over you and commenting on your behavior, you'd have the trinity (or whatever you believe) doing the same.

Consider a more likely scenario, what happens when we have near indefinite life extension? For all those S parents (typically) who like to push their kids around, they'll never go away. As a society we'll have to develop new rules.

 

[Cognisant]

I want to see this study done with four islands, one with chimpanzees, one with bonobos, one with meerkats and the last one with wolves or dogs, ideally a breed of dog with a gentle temperament like labradors.

The breakdown of rat society seems to be because, well rats don't have a society, they're happy to share space with each other most of the time but to breed they need privacy, they need to be able to clearly smell and thus identify their young as their own, they won't raise their young in groups like humans will because their brains just aren't wired that way.

This is why it would be interesting to see the same study done with meerkats or dogs, they do have a pack mentality, and though chimps will probably just kill each other it would be interesting to see if any "beautiful ones" develop amongst them and what they might get up to. Finally bonobos might be the most interesting of all given how highly amicable they are to each other, their population might just keep expanding as long as they're given food until the whole island is covered in them, at which point I think it would be kinder to nerve gas the lot of them at once rather than cut off their food supply because I think we know what will happen next.

Then again we can't just assume, that's not really science is it?

 

[Duxwing]

I don't want mom and dad to die. I'll likely want to move out one day, but why would I want them dead?

An eternal parental figure--in the abstract--need not be evil because people are mentally unhealthy, and the parental figure could serve as a literally ideal mediator and rehabilitator, thereby preventing crime and even jerkiness without resorting to remote control. It would need a Constitution as a limiter, however. An example of what I mean can be found in the Star Trek (Original Series) episode The Treaty of Organia, wherein the Organians prevent the Federation and Klingon Empire from destroying the galaxy by using their god-like power to make the controls of all weapons systems on both sides too hot to touch.

Those living in Utopia would live like they are on earth, but shielded from disease and harm by an omniscient but power-limited Sentinel. Privacy would be a problem, but programming the Sentinel to look only at public spaces shifts all crime indoors.

I see no solution but eternal and omniscient surveillance and accustoming ourselves to the occasional discomforts of same in the name of protecting our minds and bodies from others and ourselves. If the Sentinel were as intelligent as a God, and if we could program it effectively, then it could keep its sensor records sealed: the footage of our morning ablutions would exist, but no-one save for the asexual Sentinel could watch it.

-Duxwing

 

[Wsye]

I think the human mind needs a purpose. Or at least, it needs challenges, it needs problems to "deal with". If a human life doesn't have any apparent or important problem to deal with, it seems to create his own set of problems to try and deal with them (and those problems wouldn't be problems.)

If there was something like a heaven where you stay eternally and receive an unlimited amount of what is considered positive from those who are not in heaven, people in the heaven wouldn't necessairly be happier than people on earth. Most of them would probably craft their own problems, look for something to fix or be pissed about.

Here is something from Louis CK, a comedian, that demonstrate it well in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dYS7PcAG4

 

[John_Mann]

Heaven is immortal life.

Even in hell I would be in heaven because I would not die.

If you can live long enough you can hack any system.

So if you're in hell embrace the devil.

 

[Cognisant]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dD-yN2G5BY0

 

[Architect]

I think the human mind needs a purpose. Or at least, it needs challenges, it needs problems to "deal with".

Right, so clearly souls in heaven are either psychopaths, or aren't human anymore.

I think the idea of heaven is a perfect example of a conception from an immature or inferior Ni, therefore the ESTP and ESFP. And in fact every ESFP I've known has been highly religious or "spiritual".

 

[Spirit]

The idea one needs a heaven is the same idea that one cannot determine their own purpose. You grow up and decide the places you want to go and kind of experiences you want to have. Humans do not need a heaven but it sure is fun for some to think about it.

People (the human mind) want to feel a connection with someone. When you have a lot of found memories with another person, it helps some people to think they will be able to recreate that experience in another "dimension". However, this reminds me of going back to an amusement park when I was a kid.

It never was the same as I remember it. That whole experience is all in the mind anyway. People will have to learn to let go and have new experiences. The child in me never wants the fun to end, but eventually the rides stop moving and the lights turn off. We have to go home.

 

[TimeAsylums]

The idea of SJ heaven, eternal stagnation. I mean, it's great for...them.

Regardless, as previous have mentioned, it stifles desire and to an extent free will, essentially.

//boring.


imho

is life not itself, perpetual?

 

[Cognisant]

In the video I just posted the guy mentioned how we are relatively rich, well that's not a bad thing so even if the world does have enough resources to support a far larger population that's no reason why we should let the global population grow, instead stabilising it now would result in a happier, wealthier, more sociopolitically stable future.

That's the utopia we all want, heck Japan's already half way there.

 

[Spirit]

Living in a perfect world praising someone for their awesome power and talent. Is like being a groupie.

Nothing dies there. How do we eat? Do we not eat anymore? So we do not need to sleep or go to the bathroom? Think of the ramifications to the biology of the human body? So, there is no bacteria? Do we need white blood cells?

So we are no longer humans. Ok I get it. We die and we become a consciousness. Then what was the purpose in saying we were made in the image of "god". So the only way for us to experience heaven is to not be human, which we were made in the image of god, but we cannot experience heaven as a human?

"Does not compute... danger... danger... my shtty acting ruining saga".

 

[Spirit]

In the video I just posted the guy mentioned how we are relatively rich, well that's not a bad thing so even if the world does have enough resources to support a far larger population that's no reason why we should let the global population grow, instead stabilising it now would result in a happier, wealthier, more sociopolitically stable future.

That's the utopia we all want, heck Japan's already half way there.

But you think that people will allow the planet to become a wonderful experience for all members? There are several personality types, for example, that have the need to classify and achieve. These individuals live for improvement and the validation it gives them. This means taking the best of everything and hording it to create scarcity. Which allows them to have influence over a certain part of the population.

It is not a matter of whether we have the resources or the ability to do what is proposed in the original post, it is that we have people on the planet "wired" to tear it down.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Even in hell I would be in heaven because I would not die.

right : D

 

[Cognisant]

It is not a matter of whether we have the resources or the ability to do what is proposed in the original post, it is that we have people on the planet "wired" to tear it down.

*makes sparks with a car battery*

People can be rewired

 

[addictedartist]

If we are not human, then what are we?

 

[Spirit]

If we are not human, then what are we?

This reality is a dream you are having while napping in heaven. It's not a nightmare because nightmares do not happen while in heaven.