Is socialization a need?

[Words]

I have a question. Why do you socialize(online/offline)? Why do people socialize in general? Is it just fun for you? What if a more fun activity was always available to people? For example, phones, gadgets, games, the internet etc.. Would people still socialize? Why?

Personally, I don't socialize unless I see a reason to socialize. My socialization is goal-oriented(like figuring something out). Oh, I enjoy socialization, but there's always something else much more enjoyable.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

It's a need. How else does learning occur? How do you learn to use those gadgets, or even learn that they exist? Any interaction, 1:1 or otherwise, is socialization, no?

Whether it differentiates according to Ne (a need to triangulate the abstract) or Se (a need to triangulate the concrete) is a different story, I think. In my experience they often repel/repulse each other.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

If something more attractive was availible to people:
For example a game/simulation where NPC's and the world is complex enough, many people would most likely do very little to leave this simulation besides taking care of immediate needs.

However this is just a different way of realising the same needs.

Also a very interesting kind of games are MMO, there are players within an artificial enviroment that socialise and interact with other players, NPC's and the world.

 

[BigApplePi]

I have a question. Why do you socialize(online/offline)? Why do people socialize in general? Is it just fun for you? What if a more fun activity was always available to people? For example, phones, gadgets, games, the internet etc.. Would people still socialize? Why?

Personally, I don't socialize unless I see a reason to socialize. My socialization is goal-oriented(like figuring something out). Oh, I enjoy socialization, but there's always something else much more enjoyable.

Socialize? You mean interact with people? Don't know. Must have to do with life. Entering and escaping life. One has to avoid the undesirable and partake in the desirable. Apparently the self is very much like others. Could that be the reason why one interacts with others? Because others = the self? What's the difference? The only difference is sensual intensity.

 

[Words]

To what extent does it(primarily 1:1 interaction) differ from eating? With eating, you can directly sense or even measure the pain of hunger. What about socialization? Where is the pain there? What qualifies it as a need similar to how we qualify breathing as a need?

It's a need. How else does learning occur? How do you learn to use those gadgets, or even learn that they exist? Any interaction, 1:1 or otherwise, is socialization, no?

All things(artifacts) made by a set of humans, buried underneath the earth, and then touched by another set of humans is communication between those two sets of humans. That's not exactly the "socialization" I was referring to.

Whether it differentiates according to Ne (a need to triangulate the abstract) or Se (a need to triangulate the concrete) is a different story, I think. In my experience they often repulse each other.

What repulse each other?

If something more attractive was availible to people:
For example a game/simulation where NPC's and the world is complex enough, many people would most likely do very little to leave this simulation besides taking care of immediate needs.

However this is just a different way of realising the same needs.

Also a very interesting kind of games are MMO, there are players within an artificial enviroment that socialise and interact with other players, NPC's and the world.

Good stuff.

 

[Words]

Socialize? You mean interact with people? Don't know. Must have to do with life. Entering and escaping life. One has to avoid the undesirable and partake in the desirable. Apparently the self is very much like others. Could that be the reason why one interacts with others? Because others = the self? What's the difference? The only difference is sensual intensity.

Yeah, why can't we satisfy this need(if it is a need) by just talking to ourselves? Why does it have to be someone else?

What is this sensual intensity? How about social intensity? There's more information when you're talking to someone face to face compared to online interaction or reading a book. It's not only sensual, it's just larger chunks of a type of information that is social in nature.


Oh, and I do think 'interact with people' is a much more accurate term. I don't understand why "socialize" is much more than that, since it's just the verb of social.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

To what extent does it(primarily 1:1 interaction) differ from eating? With eating, you can directly sense or even measure the pain of hunger. What about socialization? Where is the pain there? What qualifies it as a need similar to how we qualify breathing as a need?

I... can't see how it relates to eating at all...? Eating is impersonal, just you and inanimate food that doesn't care what you do to it. (Oh, the sandwiches I've abused if that's not the case... )

All things(artifacts) made by a set of humans, buried underneath the earth, and then touched by another set of humans is communication between those two sets of humans. That's not exactly the "socialization" I was referring to.

How does one learn to interpret them, where does that skill of interpretation come from, and how is it fostered and developed? This is why socialization is needed.

We're not sea turtles. We can't just hatch out of an egg and depart on our merry way into the sea instinctively ingrained with all we need to know to survive (while being eaten by... a lot of other creatures). Our world is far more complicated, if not strictly because we can conceptualize it.

What repulse each other?

Ne and Se. For example, SP socialization is a lot more sexual in nature than that of NPs. The goals are different. Ne-guided socialization is to figure things out "just because" (at least in Ti users (?)). (Perhaps I'm being a bit presumptuous in this example by using sex to describe Se, but basically I'm saying that socialization is a means to feed ones introverted functions).

Yeah, why can't we satisfy this need(if it is a need) by just talking to ourselves?

The same reason that solitary confinement drives people insane.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Yeah, why can't we satisfy this need(if it is a need) by just talking to ourselves? Why does it have to be someone else?

The trap is in predictability and loss of complexity of appeal this would be a general lack of new information.

What is this sensual intensity? How about social intensity? There's more information when you're talking to someone face to face compared to online interaction or reading a book. It's not only sensual, it's just larger chunks of a type of information that is social in nature.

There is more information that you discard. You don't remember what was the color of the surrounding elements of background, what were other people doing. There is a high potential information gain that while talking to someone is lost. Very similar to reading a book or having a different intake of new information.

 

[BigApplePi]

Yeah, why can't we satisfy this need(if it is a need) by just talking to ourselves? Why does it have to be someone else?

The trap is in predictability and loss of complexity of appeal this would be a general lack of new information.

Have you ever made a mistake? Mistake is the wrong word. Have you ever taken a path, discarded it and taken an alternate? That represents another person. You are more than one person. If you are more than one person alone, socializing represents even more choices, some you haven't or never would have thought of. That gives you more power.

What is this sensual intensity? How about social intensity? There's more information when you're talking to someone face to face compared to online interaction or reading a book. It's not only sensual, it's just larger chunks of a type of information that is social in nature.

The things YOU feel are more intense by far than what you imagine others feel about exactly the same thing. That is you feel a stone hitting you more than a stone hitting another person ... unless you are in an empathetic state. At the same time seeing the reaction of a stone hitting another person gives you information about how it happened if you believe you would like to avoid one hitting you. Same with positive things. If someone tells you they liked something, then you can benefit by trying it whereas without socialization you wouldn't have the connection.

At the same time, socializing can fail. What another likes may fail you. If it continues to fail, one may turn away. It's statistical. Keep trying socializing and a productive path could be found. Networking does this.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I have a question. Why do you socialize(online/offline)? Why do people socialize in general? Is it just fun for you? What if a more fun activity was always available to people? For example, phones, gadgets, games, the internet etc.. Would people still socialize? Why?

Personally, I don't socialize unless I see a reason to socialize. My socialization is goal-oriented(like figuring something out). Oh, I enjoy socialization, but there's always something else much more enjoyable.

So in this case your goal in socializing here on the forum is the goal to better understand socialization. On the face of it, that makes sense but couldn't there be other motivations involved? What might be lurking underneath the obvious goal of understanding? Why understand at all? What use is it to you? Without other people, it's as if it happens in a vacuum. It stays in your head and might intrinsically satisfy for a while...but will wither and you'll lose any future desire or goal oriented motivation unless you interact in the currency of people.

Taking the analogy of the tree that falls in the forest...if you have an idea, thought, question, event in the absence of other people, do you exist? On the face of it, yes you do and the event actually happened but without another to hear it, see it, interact with it, it falls flat. It feels as if you don't exist. People are a mirror to ourselves. Without that mirror, we implode in on ourselves. Being self conscious without other self conscious beings is like having the greatest potential and not being able to realize it. It becomes no potential at all.

 

[BigApplePi]

So in this case your goal in socializing here on the forum is the goal to better understand socialization. On the face of it, that makes sense but couldn't there be other motivations involved? What might be lurking underneath the obvious goal of understanding? Why understand at all? What use is it to you? Without other people, it's as if it happens in a vacuum. It stays in your head and might intrinsically satisfy for a while...but will wither and you'll lose any future desire or goal oriented motivation unless you interact in the currency of people.

Taking the analogy of the tree that falls in the forest...if you have an idea, thought, question, event in the absence of other people, do you exist? On the face of it, yes you do and the event actually happened but without another to hear it, see it, interact with it, it falls flat. It feels as if you don't exist. People are a mirror to ourselves. Without that mirror, we implode in on ourselves. Being self conscious without other self conscious beings is like having the greatest potential and not being able to realize it. It becomes no potential at all.

One can extend the de-socialization of removing people to removing sensual stimuli (sensory deprivation). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_deprivation

If one reads there and looks at the effects, one may work backwards and ask what people deprivation (as with prisoner solitary confinement) will do. Notice that these results are experimental and not rational as the OP seems to ask.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

@BAP Thanks for the link. People deprivation may not create the same effects as hallucinations and the like but you do go a bit crazy if you spend too much time alone and in your head. I work at home and even though I talk on the phone and email, I start to get itchy to be among people.

 

[BigApplePi]

@BAP Thanks for the link. People deprivation may not create the same effects as hallucinations and the like but you do go a bit crazy if you spend too much time alone and in your head. I work at home and even though I talk on the phone and email, I start to get itchy to be among people.

So do I but in spite of all the useful talk on this thread I sense the full answer is not there. I have to ask does it reach into the unconscious or can something be brought out to make the truth obvious? Perhaps an answer can be likened to taking a vacation or going to sleep and rising fresh in the morning. One may get saturated with their current state, no matter how good, valuable or enjoyable that may appear. One needs a brain sweeping change. That can be achieved by a 3D interaction with others. It's not a very conscious activity as one has no control over the interaction with others unless one is a specialist in controlling.

Perhaps an analogy is like building a pyramid. I build it and that is fine. But at some point I would like to build another or go back and rebuild. That is hard to do without first sweeping away all that building. The old is in the way of the new. Go have a social interaction and it's all swept away, something one cannot do oneself.

 

[Cognisant]

People need validation, both for their ideas and their egos.

I don't think we have a direct need for socialisation but we are compelled to seek it and that compulsion, if severe enough, could be considered a need.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Yep I agree. All the way. We need to do it.

 

[BigApplePi]

Yet there are those with a lot of integrity who know themselves well and have a good deal of self-reliance. Ever see a Steve McQueen film? He was admired for those qualities. Are you an INTP? Then you could fall short.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000537/

 

[Amagi82]

If you don't think socialization is a need, you need to surround yourself with a higher quality group of people. Try to find people who are better than you at something you respect. Learn from them. Grow and improve. I've had my periods of time where I wondered if other people were worth it- then I found a circle of friends who is worth the time I spend with them.

 

[BigApplePi]

If you don't think socialization is a need, you need to surround yourself with a higher quality group of people.

This is probably not what this thread is meant for, but socialization can be thought of in terms of animals also. Some people are animals raisers or animal trainers. Why did they choose that?

I have two pets: a dog and a cat. My cat is sitting on my lap right now grooming himself. I learn from him and admire his personal care. He has a independent quality. He is his own man. That is admirable. My dog is loyal and friendly. Aren't those qualities you might like in an eligible person?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Have you ever made a mistake? Mistake is the wrong word. Have you ever taken a path, discarded it and taken an alternate? That represents another person. You are more than one person. If you are more than one person alone, socializing represents even more choices, some you haven't or never would have thought of. That gives you more power.

I disagree, I am a set of my past choices and rejected paths that constitute a multi-personal being, I absorb my past selves as I can absorb other views. Self-Interaction is possible only when new information or conclusions are generated steadily. However generation of conclusions and information requires a steady flow of external sensory input to start off with, this is a part of the mechanism behind using internet, talking to someone etc. You can also plan or emulate, this action is based on information that you already know and establishes a simple system that you hold in your awarness that later evolves in your imagination as a creative work.

I view myself as a continuous function. I live with the knowledge and acceptance of my mistakes and decisions, this impacts what I further perpetrate as a comparative and empirical study.

 

[BigApplePi]

Originally Posted by BigApplePi
Have you ever made a mistake? Mistake is the wrong word. Have you ever taken a path, discarded it and taken an alternate? That represents another person. You are more than one person.

I disagree, I am a set of my past choices and rejected paths that constitute a multi-personal being, I absorb my past selves as I can absorb other views.

Not sure we disagree. I think you are talking about a personality integration. Think: thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis stages. Before the synthesis stage is reached, one has two paths which conflict with one another. Each one is a possibility. Each one is a different YOU for the moment ... until the firm choice and comparison is made. One gets to socialize with themselves ... so to speak.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Not sure we disagree. I think you are talking about a personality integration. Think: thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis stages. Before the synthesis stage is reached, one has two paths which conflict with one another. Each one is a possibility. Each one is a different YOU for the moment ... until the firm choice and comparison is made. One gets to socialize with themselves ... so to speak.

Are you a single person? In a way you are. Let's consider the entire process; You begin empty and you are rapidly filled with information in a manner that is controlled by your parents, later on this information is connected in patterns and you develop a personality that allows you to control what information you absorb. After all you are the composition of all the information you have absorbed and all the ways that you have connected this information and stored it for further use.

Similar to a junction/star network, however that is not the only topology you could have:
network topology
maybe it is possible to have more than one node?
Two feedback loops:
external
internal

 

[PhoenixRising]

I socialize because..

Relationships are the best way to learn about who you are and what it means to be human. Interaction with others causes refinement in ideas and world-views, as the causality of our mind is balanced by the causalities of other minds. There are also elements of one's self that don't tend to come out except in social situations, so it's important for self-actualization. I also love people and value human connection. I believe that remaining too isolated is psychologically unhealthy, as it is a denial of the collective side of our nature.

Is social interaction a "need"? It depends on the individual, I think. Since self-actualization is important to me, as is assisting others in their personal growth, it could be said that I need social interaction. But, I can see someone becoming a hermit if they had more reason to be isolated than they did to interact with others.

 

[Anktark]

I think it depends on a person. I know some people that can barely function alone and seem to be constantly seeking company. I think I could have no contact with people altogether for half a year before I would start missing it.

My current life goal is to set up a self-sufficient system where 2-5 like minded individuals could live near each other comfortably (and the hell away from the rest of society). Being a hermit doesn't seem like a bad idea either.

 

[Cyon]

My current life goal is to set up a self-sufficient system where 2-5 like minded individuals could live near each other comfortably (and the hell away from the rest of society). Being a hermit doesn't seem like a bad idea either.

I think that system would be healthy for me. I've always imagined myself being a hermit when I get way old.

Anyway, to answer your question: yes. I socialize primarily because it seems to be a need nowadays. Considering that we're born to a society, having more connections is an advantage. No socialization, no one knows you, no one cares and would be dead meat before help needed is realized. I actually tend to keep people as acquaintances rather than friends to keep things impersonal but I keep important people close.

 

[viche]

They've done studies on mokeys raising them without socialization. They grew up into total wrecks. Their emotional system was completely disregulated. They went bonkers.

This means that socialization is a vital need. It's not not vital as eating or drinking, but it's even more vital than sex. People need to socialize to regulate and balance their own psyches and emotional systems. This is why one of the most severe punishments in prisons and interrogation facilities is solitary confinement.

It's interesting how socionics talks about this topic. It explains how each type occupies a certain place in the society. No type is born to function as a "stand-alone" unit. And people who receive help on their weaker functions usually grow up better adjusted and more capable.

 

[tvrgvryen]

Humans are mammals and mammals are social creatures. We need to interact with other beings of our kind... it is a need and purely biological. It doesn't matter if you're the most introverted person.

 

[Anktark]

Humans are mammals and mammals are social creatures. We need to interact with other beings of our kind... it is a need and purely biological. It doesn't matter if you're the most introverted person.

I suppose a couple hours of conversation every two years wouldn't be so terribly inconvenient

 

[Words]

Humans are mammals and mammals are social creatures. We need to interact with other beings of our kind... it is a need and purely biological. It doesn't matter if you're the most introverted person.

Explain hermits.

This means that socialization is a vital need. It's not as vital as eating or drinking, but it's even more vital than sex. People need to socialize to regulate and balance their own psyches and emotional systems.

What does "regulating and balancing psyches and emotional systems" mean?

Nothing is really a "need.' "Need" is relative to one's values. That's why you have people fasting, doing self-emolation, suicide bombing etc. It just so happens that survival, which requires mental stability, is a popular value. What I'm wondering is its difference to eating and drinking. What is the biochemical difference? What is it the theoretical difference?

 

[King_Be_Us]

Neurotransmitters, I believe, what viche is referring to... Drugs can do that, but subtle helps.

 

[QuickTwist]

Socialization is good for the majority of the world but is not for everyone; it can actually be detrimental to some people. Let me explain. lets say someone grows up in a ridiculously hostile environment and in tandem with this they are often left to fend for themselves. Lets also say that this individual is an extreme introvert. In this situation the most likely outcome is that the emotional satisfaction that this individual receives from being alone far outweighs the urge to be with people. They would probably be emotionally scared for life and would be conditioned to associate people with bad things happening. Of course this is not the only outcome that can take place; some people in this situation might be unhealthily competitive, or controlling or manipulative. But the point remains the same that it would be better for either that individual or their social network to be alone, or left alone.

 

[sushi]

with stupid people, the joy instantly becomes a buzzkill.

Anyway, tell that to the first human being in the universe, he got through life without much socializing. (or he talks to his inbreeding children)

 

[QuickTwist]

I think the real question should be why is it a need to socialize. That would provide better info on the topic.

 

[BigApplePi]

I think the real question should be why is it a need to socialize. That would provide better info on the topic.

That was the original Q. There is a need to socialize because we want to do something to satisfy our needs. Others provide connections to satisfying those needs. One can get away without socializing for a while, but eventually run into something one can't get without it or can't get as easily. Socialize and sometimes the solution is handed to you on a silver platter. Sometimes the result is revolting and one regrets socializing, so it's a matter of risk ... not a sure thing.

 

[sushi]

My socialization strategy:
RRS
(Random questions,Random topic, ask Stupid questions)

if the person you approached seems indifferent, move on and stop giving a damn.

its basically a bullshitting exercise.

 

[QuickTwist]

Good strategy. How did you come up with it?

 

[Tutu]

I would think people get their needs met thru socializing , be it the need for fun,emotional need.ect.But I understand u guys might not need that or seek it in different ways.

 

[Chocobana]

I think socializing is a need for humans. I did this research paper a while ago for school about this kind of thing actually, and one of the interesting stuff I found was how socializing influences us biologically.

So some researchers have studied and compared two groups of people: one that has people who aren't in physical contact with people much and another that has a bunch of social people. To put it in simple terms, they found that the social group had a stronger immune system and more white blood cells while the isolated group had a pretty weak immune system (among other things).

I wonder why it's necessary for humans to socialize though (the philosophical aspect). Is it a thing we could apply to all living beings? I mean, animals do live in herds, groups, packs and they have their own form of communication. Hmmmm.

 

[BigApplePi]

Socialization is a need

Name something which is both complex in depth and complex in breadth. Evolution has made humans both. That means it is must do things both in depth and breath though I cannot explain evolution. What better thing to do than do it with another human being? That's my answer.

Consider a plant, complex in depth but doesn't move so absent breadth. It doesn't need to socialize. Consider a butterfly, complex in breadth but not in depth. It doesn't need to socialize, or does it? Define socialization.

Now consider a bird. Birds vary, so some socialize and some don't.

Consider a machine. It's not alive. Not very complex in either depth or breadth. It doesn't need to socialize.