Studying Engineering

[bleo]

Hey folks, new member here. Somewhat hesitant because though I've received multiple assessments saying that I am an INTP, my greatest quality would be an intuitive thinking type, and probably less so of anything else.

Anyway, I am studying Masters of Engineering (Mechanical) and I'm finding it hard. After failing last semester which really brought my self-esteem down, I'm questioning (again) if this career really suited me.

In school, I love fine arts and creating something fresh and weird. I won awards and was 'naturally' great at it. However, I thought that sooner or later I will be short-handed. I wanted something that gave me a greater purpose than just entertaining people.

So, I've likened myself to those 'Engineering/absent-minded-professors' as often portrayed in media. I thought my strong sense of creativity and unconventional pattern-seeking-thinking would fit in well if I learned mechanical systems. Maybe I could create something out of that weird fusion. At this time, I took half arts-related A-Levels, and the other half Maths and Physics. So I went for the latter.

I'm still not particularly tuned in my course, and getting especially tired of derivations and calculations. The engineering design subjects did not include any brainstorming / drawing components. It was strictly designing against failure and for operation optimization. Pretty dead set in its ways.

I've asked my friends and they seem to do Engineering because it's something they can do - not because they want to, they didn't know what they wanted. Their learning process is almost mechanical itself. I'm still scratching my head as to how they get their high grades. I have low tolerance with something I know I have no passion for. Don't get me wrong, I like Engineering - I'm probably not interested in detailed calculations and practical applications as I initially assumed.

So, while still holding out the possibility of pursuing my current field, I need suggestions as to how to use these skills better or any thing else I should consider... Advice?

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Where are you located?

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Hey folks, new member here. Somewhat hesitant because though I've received multiple assessments saying that I am an INTP, my greatest quality would be an intuitive thinking type, and probably less so of anything else.

Anyway, I am studying Masters of Engineering (Mechanical) and I'm finding it hard. After failing last semester which really brought my self-esteem down, I'm questioning (again) if this career really suited me.

In school, I love fine arts and creating something fresh and weird. I won awards and was 'naturally' great at it. However, I thought that sooner or later I will be short-handed. I wanted something that gave me a greater purpose than just entertaining people.

So, I've likened myself to those 'Engineering/absent-minded-professors' as often portrayed in media. I thought my strong sense of creativity and unconventional pattern-seeking-thinking would fit in well if I learned mechanical systems. Maybe I could create something out of that weird fusion. At this time, I took half arts-related A-Levels, and the other half Maths and Physics. So I went for the latter.

I'm still not particularly tuned in my course, and getting especially tired of derivations and calculations. The engineering design subjects did not include any brainstorming / drawing components. It was strictly designing against failure and for operation optimization. Pretty dead set in its ways.

I've asked my friends and they seem to do Engineering because it's something they can do - not because they want to, they didn't know what they wanted. Their learning process is almost mechanical itself. I'm still scratching my head as to how they get their high grades. I have low tolerance with something I know I have no passion for. Don't get me wrong, I like Engineering - I'm probably not interested in detailed calculations and practical applications as I initially assumed.

So, while still holding out the possibility of pursuing my current field, I need suggestions as to how to use these skills better or any thing else I should consider... Advice?

I think perhaps the reason why you got disillusioned with engineering (I could be wrong though) is because you romanticized the field. Perhaps somewhere along your life you got mesmerized by some engineer who seemed to put out really cool inventions and you wanted to be like that yourself. No worries, almost everyone whom I know falls into such a trap (including myself). Now we need to figure out a way to get out of it.

The way that I see it, you're trying to get engineering to fit you but you're not trying to fit yourself to engineering. That's a wrong approach right from the start in my opinion because all of us aren't really "fit" for any field to begin with but gradually one learns the field and tries to assimilate him/herself into its structure, adopt its mindsets and values etc.

So perhaps you could try that. Try shifting your mindset into one that tries to assimilate into the structure of engineering rather than the other way around. It's not worth trying to erect a fortress around you, trust me.

All the best!

 

[_cdub]

Did you enjoy getting your bachelor's? Since you already have a lot of those classes down, why not get into another branch of engineering like electrical. If you still want your master's, you may need to do a paradigm shift to see it differently. I can't quite say how as I am still getting me general and math classes out of the way for my bachelor's engineering.

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[Sixup]

I think perhaps the reason why you got disillusioned with engineering (I could be wrong though) is because you romanticized the field. Perhaps somewhere along your life you got mesmerized by some engineer who seemed to put out really cool inventions and you wanted to be like that yourself. No worries, almost everyone whom I know falls into such a trap (including myself). Now we need to figure out a way to get out of it.

The way that I see it, you're trying to get engineering to fit you but you're not trying to fit yourself to engineering. That's a wrong approach right from the start in my opinion because all of us aren't really "fit" for any field to begin with but gradually one learns the field and tries to assimilate him/herself into its structure, adopt its mindsets and values etc.

So perhaps you could try that. Try shifting your mindset into one that tries to assimilate into the structure of engineering rather than the other way around. It's not worth trying to erect a fortress around you, trust me.

All the best!

This is very good advice. I need to remember this myself.

 

[bleo]

Thanks everyone for replying! I really appreciate your help.

Where are you located?

Australia, if that is of any relevance..

Did you enjoy getting your bachelor's? Since you already have a lot of those classes down, why not get into another branch of engineering like electrical. If you still want your master's, you may need to do a paradigm shift to see it differently. I can't quite say how as I am still getting me general and math classes out of the way for my bachelor's engineering.

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On my way to masters, it's actually compulsory for me to do fundamental subjects by the Electrical, Software and Civil Engineering Department. I'm certain mechanical suited me best out of all of them. I enjoyed my Bachelor's, although Masters is significantly tougher - so it tested me a bit.

I think perhaps the reason why you got disillusioned with engineering (I could be wrong though) is because you romanticized the field. Perhaps somewhere along your life you got mesmerized by some engineer who seemed to put out really cool inventions and you wanted to be like that yourself. No worries, almost everyone whom I know falls into such a trap (including myself). Now we need to figure out a way to get out of it.

The way that I see it, you're trying to get engineering to fit you but you're not trying to fit yourself to engineering. That's a wrong approach right from the start in my opinion because all of us aren't really "fit" for any field to begin with but gradually one learns the field and tries to assimilate him/herself into its structure, adopt its mindsets and values etc.

So perhaps you could try that. Try shifting your mindset into one that tries to assimilate into the structure of engineering rather than the other way around. It's not worth trying to erect a fortress around you, trust me.

All the best!

I think you've described my situation pretty spot on with the romanticizing part. Seeing as Engineering does give you the problem solving skill that is highly desirable in the working field, I'll take your advice and give it another go.

My predicament is that I may have given up along the way. Then I tried to dig up my talents that set me apart from everyone else, perhaps. I remember being immensely interested in some of my subjects, and theoretically grasped it better than others. But when it comes to exams, which weighed most of our marks, I performed less so than my friends. It was discouraging.

 

[bleo]

Double post, but just while we're on the topic...

Any other INTPs doing Engineering out there? Would love to hear how you're doing with it (university/work/etc) ^_^

 

[Sir Eus Lee]

Somewhat hesitant because though I've received multiple assessments saying that I am an INTP, my greatest quality would be an intuitive thinking typel.

Anyway, I am studying Masters of Engineering (Mechanical) and I'm finding it hard. After failing last semester which really brought my self-esteem down, I'm questioning (again) if this career really suited me.

In school, I love fine arts and creating something fresh and weird. I won awards and was 'naturally' great at it. However, I thought that sooner or later I will be short-handed. I wanted something that gave me a greater purpose than just entertaining people.

So, I've likened myself to those 'Engineering/absent-minded-professors' as often portrayed in media. I thought my strong sense of creativity and unconventional pattern-seeking-thinking would fit in well if I learned mechanical systems.

I'm still not particularly tuned in my course, and getting especially tired of derivations and calculations. The engineering design subjects did not include any brainstorming / drawing components. It was strictly designing against failure and for operation optimization. Pretty dead set in its ways.

I've asked my friends and they seem to do Engineering because it's something they can do - not because they want to, they didn't know what they wanted. Their learning process is almost mechanical itself. I'm still scratching my head as to how they get their high grades. I have low tolerance with something I know I have no passion for. Don't get me wrong, I like Engineering - I'm probably not interested in detailed calculations and practical applications as I initially assumed.

I've trimmed the post to the pieces that seem most relavent to type.

I'm not going to say you aren't intp; you know your type better than anybody else. But when looking at intuitive thinkers, it is not only comprised of the NTs, but types such as the ISTP(Ti dom, Ni tert), INFJ(Ni dom, Ti tert), possibly the ENFP (Ne dom Te tert) maybe the ESTJ.

The absent-minded professor trait can still apply to some of those types in the right circumstances.

One question you may want to ask yourself is how decisive you were with your choice, maybe even compared to others. Inferior Je or the INTP means their ability to value external situations is nil. INTP indecisiveness is a combination of Ne having multiple options and Fe not knowing what to do with them when Ti and Si can't offer any insight. If you didn't ponder engineering long and hard, perhaps you should look back at your type.

Honestly, I have no basis to shoot down your type, as I only read a short 5-6 paragraph text post summing up a 3-4 year running decision, from a person who's lived a 20 yr + life, but I'm just deducing what I can.

 

[bleo]

I've trimmed the post to the pieces that seem most relavent to type.

I'm not going to say you aren't intp; you know your type better than anybody else. But when looking at intuitive thinkers, it is not only comprised of the NTs, but types such as the ISTP(Ti dom, Ni tert), INFJ(Ni dom, Ti tert), possibly the ENFP (Ne dom Te tert) maybe the ESTJ.

The absent-minded professor trait can still apply to some of those types in the right circumstances.

One question you may want to ask yourself is how decisive you were with your choice, maybe even compared to others. Inferior Je or the INTP means their ability to value external situations is nil. INTP indecisiveness is a combination of Ne having multiple options and Fe not knowing what to do with them when Ti and Si can't offer any insight. If you didn't ponder engineering long and hard, perhaps you should look back at your type.

Honestly, I have no basis to shoot down your type, as I only read a short 5-6 paragraph text post summing up a 3-4 year running decision, from a person who's lived a 20 yr + life, but I'm just deducing what I can.

Nope, totally acceptable to try deducing my type. If anything it is a token of knowledge. Grudgingly, though I've accepted my type, I've always tried to prove the MBTI wrong :P

I have been thinking cripplingly hard. Perhaps the one thing that I can say about myself is that I'm poor at reaching to a final conclusion. There's always a possibility, so I went with that possibility if I see that it weighs more benefits logically, almost in a matter of fact. When I took engineering, I thought about what was good for me, not how I felt about it. Feeling is subjective and so I thought I could fit that into the whole equation. Though I can't deny that social pressure did give me that small push as well.

If that could help you pin-point, then I'm happy to be of service.

 

[Sir Eus Lee]

Nope, totally acceptable to try deducing my type. If anything it is a token of knowledge. Grudgingly, though I've accepted my type, I've always tried to prove the MBTI wrong

I have been thinking cripplingly hard. Perhaps the one thing that I can say about myself is that I'm poor at reaching to a final conclusion. There's always a possibility, so I went with that possibility if I see that it weighs more benefits logically, almost in a matter of fact. When I took engineering, I thought about what was good for me, not how I felt about it. Feeling is subjective and so I thought I could fit that into the whole equation. Though I can't deny that social pressure did give me that small push as well.

If that could help you pin-point, then I'm happy to be of service.

Did you want me (us, the forum) to try and pinpoint your type? I was just offering some suggestions, but we could. It wasnt the starting topic, but thats not to say they dont go hand in hand. But then again everything goes hand in hand with type so really *spirals into self argumentation.*

We have a suforum for typing, I think. Your social interactions would offer a lot of insight into your type if we were to attempt to type you.

(Oh, and most of us do accept MBTI is wrong, but cognitive functions are accurate, but I'm afraid to say that because I'm sure everybody here has a very long opinion on that. I dont know if you meant JCF by MBTI but *spirals into terminology and specification rant.*)

 

[bleo]

Did you want me (us, the forum) to try and pinpoint your type? I was just offering some suggestions, but we could. It wasnt the starting topic, but thats not to say they dont go hand in hand. But then again everything goes hand in hand with type so really *spirals into self argumentation.*

We have a suforum for typing, I think. Your social interactions would offer a lot of insight into your type if we were to attempt to type you.

(Oh, and most of us do accept MBTI is wrong, but cognitive functions are accurate, but I'm afraid to say that because I'm sure everybody here has a very long opinion on that. I dont know if you meant JCF by MBTI but *spirals into terminology and specification rant.*)

That would be really interesting. I accept the challenge. If there is a subforum for this, direct me to it. Else, I'm comfortable with side-tracking to a sub-topic. I'm testing out JCF now since I've only concerned myself with MBTI personality types and always get INTP. If there are any questions, shoot away and I'll catch your bullet.

 

[bleo]

Several cognitive tests/hours later, I believe I have caught myself in the classic (or should I say notorious) 'ENTP or INTP' problem. At least I can confirm that I am definitely a xNTP type. I went over a number of profile descriptions online, to which I identified with a bit of both. Then I've indulged in a couple of threads in this forum discussing the difference of both. Again, identified with both in several situations. I could revive the age-old discussion by summoning a new thread, but I rather not.

There are times when I'm generally more critical of accepting information. Hand me a topic I am engaged in, or something that may have presented a contradiction, I will go on a full fledged research - drawing multiple resources, logically eliminating a chain of conclusions and hopefully arrive to a sound enough solution. I reiterate it, but personally challenge my conclusions in case I have missed any detail out. Much to what I've been accustomed to in Engineering.

There are times where I am not restricted by logical definitions. For these instances, I've plucked out inspiration externally. My visual mind combine nonsensical things together into a possibility. Birth of an idea. This function is not generally appreciated among my peers, so I do so in my spare time, outside of my degree - mostly, when I'm brewing up art-related projects. Inherently though, my mind is very random and I do have a bit of a wit.

But then I get tired of an excess of one, and jump to the other. This describes my social life well too. There are times that I love attention to detail and get blinded by it. Then, there are just times where I just deal with the bigger picture.

Constantly, I'm seeking personal growth. Knowing that I tend to sit back, listen and analyze in group discussions - I've challenged myself to lead this semester. So on and so forth.

Someone help type me.

 

[del]

Double post, but just while we're on the topic...

Any other INTPs doing Engineering out there? Would love to hear how you're doing with it (university/work/etc) ^_^

I can't speak for others, but my field is dominated by STJs. It's a constant battle with them, because I don't like to blindly follow their standards without knowing their reasons for them.

The "absent minded engineering professor" stereotype doesn't exist in the real world. Engineers are mostly Sensors -- I would estimate over 80%. NT engineers end up in "special projects" type positions, where the problems are so exotic that established standards don't apply or exist yet.

 

[Sixup]

I can't speak for others, but my field is dominated by STJs. It's a constant battle with them, because I don't like to blindly follow their standards without knowing their reasons for them.

The "absent minded engineering professor" stereotype doesn't exist in the real world. Engineers are mostly Sensors -- I would estimate over 80%.

Hah I've seen this already. Most of my classmates seem to want to just memorize the math and not really understand why it works. When I work with the obviously STJ types (a sometimes necessary evil) they often finish a problem while I'm still analyzing a specific part of it. Ask them to solve it in a different way or if the problem is set up differently, they'll be stuck.

 

[_cdub]

Double post, but just while we're on the topic...

Any other INTPs doing Engineering out there? Would love to hear how you're doing with it (university/work/etc) ^_^

Yup, mechanical. I've been paying out of pocket so I went to community college to get the general stuff out of the way.

I find myself the most interested in the pure math aspects. Complex numbers and non elementary functions in particular.

From my taking to people out really does sound like a lot of engineering jobs don't give you room to explore a problem. I would love to do something like research and development. Any tips?

 

[bleo]

Yup, mechanical. I've been paying out of pocket so I went to community college to get the general stuff out of the way.

I find myself the most interested in the pure math aspects. Complex numbers and non elementary functions in particular.

From my taking to people out really does sound like a lot of engineering jobs don't give you room to explore a problem. I would love to do something like research and development. Any tips?

From my experience, not sure how Univeristies work where you are, but Mechanical Engineering doesnt have much of a pure math and complex numbers component. At most, Vector Calculus and Differential Equations IF at all. The closest type of Engineering that needed applied/pure maths is Electrical Engineering - a lot of my Maths-major friends tend to flee there. And the closest subject I've taken that includes such component is Control Systems. You might like that.

Depends on what kind research and development and in what industry. You get that kind of opportunity in the University itself if you do graduate courses. Out there, (I cant yet verify from first hand experience but I've talked to a lot of industries), it's all about doing the job. Then, you work your way up where you possibly have autonomy.. possibly.

 

[_cdub]

I didn't really mean using pure math on the workplace, I just mean the school work.

And how would you describe the types of work available if the majority of R+D is in university's?

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[bleo]

I didn't really mean using pure math on the workplace, I just mean the school work.

And how would you describe the types of work available if the majority of R+D is in university's?

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Yep, I mean school work as a Mechanical Engineering in University. The only maths I've ever dealt with as a Masters student is vector calculus and differential equations - mostly in areas of solid mechanics or fluid dynamics so far.

My comments on workplaces are just guess work. I did hear that you tend to drop most of the theory-intensive work you've learned in University when you enter the workforce - essentially companies will induct you their way. The job that may be closely related to working with theories is consultancy. Again, guess work.

Also. ISTJs in my Engineering classes. Spot on.

 

[Architect]

I can't speak for others, but my field is dominated by STJs.

Yes true for engineering, but then STJ's dominant most fields through their huge numbers and ability to execute and succeed. What's interesting is to look at the correlation factor (% in field / % in population) for various types in a field. For example in software engineering INTP's show up two and a half times as frequently as in real life

Personality types in software engineering

The "absent minded engineering professor" stereotype doesn't exist in the real world.

It does, I work with many and have that role myself. But everybody has to produce something eventually, even professors.

Engineers are mostly Sensors -- I would estimate over 80%.

For good reason - see above citation.

NT engineers end up in "special projects" type positions, where the problems are so exotic that established standards don't apply or exist yet.

Sometimes/often true. What happens is it's a big bag of people and people naturally fall where they do best. I'm the special projects guy for our team, which is ISTJ/ISTP dominanted. Nobody else could stand the ambiguity I do, I work on things that go nowhere, take years to mature, or in one case made millions the first year, went completely dormant, now may be revived.

The other ST's (and a few SF's) prefer to be hands on busy bees.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

engineering is the most boring, dull, yuck, blekh and tedious discipline. recommended only for those who want a slow brain death

 

[Architect]

Yeah and the worst part is having to figure out what to do with all the money.

 

[_cdub]

Sometimes/often true. What happens is it's a big bag of people and people naturally fall where they do best. I'm the special projects guy for our team, which is ISTJ/ISTP dominanted. Nobody else could stand the ambiguity I do, I work on things that go nowhere, take years to mature, or in one case made millions the first year, went completely dormant, now may be revived.

How would you go about looking for a job like that?

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