Time Does Not Make It Any Easier

[s0nystyle]

"Gradually, you begin to learn to exist without other people. You live your life alone. It becomes easier that way, and less hurtful. And while it is never really satisfactory and you know you are missing something which others enjoy, it helps to preserve your sanity to accept that the simple pleasure of friendship is not meant for you. To think anything else would drive a person insane."

just a little something i picked up from the site http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Am-Always-On-The-Outside-Looking-In/767292

it seems to summarize my outlook on life up until my first year of college quite well. Any thoughts?

 

[snafupants]

with the coffee shop analogy, why must one be enmeshed in the masses to be moderately content? moreover, those blokes in the coffee shop smirking, are those the friends this person covets? wait, what happened your first year of college?

 

[Melllvar]

Pretty well describes my feelings on life starting around my second year of college... although it really took a few years to fully embrace that sort of "life philosophy." I regret, and am somewhat ashamed of, my former desire to be a part of society. Online forums are about the only human contact I have now, besides occasionally getting drunk with a few people I don't even get along with or have anything in common with.

Wonderful quote, almost sig worthy, imo.

 

[Nerd.]

I thought it was just a phase in school. We had been taught in Health class that the inside-outside group behavior would not necessarily end as we got older, but would contract. There would be more and more people not engaging in this behavior. It was my ray of hope. When I was an adult, the isolation would end. It was not true. When I am among my own kind, it's okay. Among the nerds, I have acquaintances. I don't have close friends, but at least I don't feel out of place. They are people with whom I can spend a few hours. Pleasant company, which satisfies the urge for friends. With two exceptions (who may not have been exceptional, but rather, unsuccessful) the few 'friends' I've had, have been sexual partners. I know it isn't healthy. My solution to the feeling of isolation is a sexual relationship. It is only by virtue of my gender that I have experienced any friendship at all.

I think time makes it easier. Without the biological urges, experienced in adolescence, to conform to a group, the feeling of nonconformity is less painful. I don't belong. I need a hermit hut. I could go off into the woods. With books, and some supplies. I would be content. I am 27. Perhaps at 47, I will think differently.

 

[Cavallier]

This is a little choppy and I apologize for not being very focused with this post:

This is something that comes up fairly often around here. *Insert the usual "I thought it was just me" phrase here* I don't know if this is due to the specific make up of the INTP to have/want this disconnection or if it's a part of the human condition to never quite manage to make a complete connection to others. (I imagine humans clinging to each other as tightly as possible, suffocating each other, out of the fear of loss and the pain of loneliness. It's so weak and pathetic.)

I accepted that I don't "love"* my friends as much as they do me in my Freshman year of college. If the need arose I could leave my closest friend of 7 years right now. We have forged a relatively deep understanding of and loyalty to each other and I would miss that but I wouldn't grieve. (I think a lot of people make deeper relationships in college because they are away from their childhood home for the first time. Being in a new place and alone does wonders for your ability and willingness to make friends fast.)

About one thing I'm certain though: I've been doing it backwards. It's not a matter of learning to live without other people so much as I'm learning to live with other people. I learned in high school how to make people befriend me. It's not unlike wooing a lover. Having people like you makes life much easier in some respects though harder in others. I arrogantly prided myself on not needing these people. I didn't need people. I had mutually beneficial relationships with people but I didn't need them. However, as I've developed more mature and long term relationships I've learned that needing somebody is frighteningly comfortable. It's consoling. I see myself 80 years old with my lover thinking that's it's a blessing to have someone in which to take consolation in my dying years. At some point I figured out that having somebody to love is something I need. It's a deeply disturbing thought. It shakes me to my core. Why do I fear love?

*Love's the wrong word in this case. I suppose I mean something more like "dependency".

 

[nexion]

I know what this person feels like. But I do not feel the same way. This person deplores loneliness and not being accepted. While I would never say that I derive pleasure from such, I would say that my life is not only defined by such, but that it even makes me feel at least satisfied and content, especially knowing that the only reason I'm such an outcast in society is because I'm different. There is some sublime yet still painful feeling in that realization, a double-edged sword, so to speak; knowing that the shallowness and inauthenticity of the masses will never be yours, and knowing that you are, in many respects, far elevated above them (yet, such is only foolish pride), but still the same, such things that come naturally to them, such as laughing, having fun, and enjoying life, shall never come natural to you. That is how I feel on the matter. I, at the very least, take pride in being an almost complete outcast in society, and it makes me do what I do with all the more ardour.

I don't know what the reader will get out of this post. I don't like it that much. It barely scratches the surface of the enormity of this topic in my life. There are few topics that I have spent thinking about more than this one. The fact that society casts out people who are different proves a point in my mind: that my hatred for it is entirely justifiable.

 

[snafupants]

^ anxiety about putative loss of control and autonomy? worry that they may leave you in a worse position? unfettered trust is anathema to certain types of people, myself included. even trust for oneself is hard to muster sometimes. to the op, why would one presume time, and thus doing nothing whatsoever, would alleviate an ongoing, clearly derailing problem? if you want to change your life, then do it and stop your bitching and moaning. these patterns have been ingrained over time, there is no silver bullet. thanks for playing.

 

[nexion]

Yes, snafupants. I definitely have trouble trusting anyone, including myself.

 

[Oster]

hmm.

I think "Make the Effort", "Be Friendly" and "Open Up" are kinda bad advices for us. Generally if I open up, no one understands what I'm rambling about. If I attempt to make an effort, it will come out as awkward. If I'm friendly, well... people get the wrong impression.

I'd say it's better to keep in mind that people are fickle beings, and each is their own personality. When you encage in discussions with someone, don't think of it as a "friendship", "relationship" or stuff like that - think of it as talking personally with That person. Don't think about how people should act in a relationship, think about how you should act around That person. I'm not saying to fake being someone else, but think of things from that point of view.
For example - people usually say that you should give and take in a friendship... but I've known several people who enjoy giving things to their friends and shut away from taking... and I know people who are opposites. Learn to know That person you're talking with.

When things go wrong, it's usually just a misunderstanding. ie. I couldn't even tell the number of times when I've gotten my innotation/wording wrong and people thought that I was being a jerk, or someone heard from someone something that somehow was completely different from the truth. Getting to core of the misunderstanding brings you a little bit closer understanding the human mind. Which then again makes it easier to see the reason for the problem next time.

well.
I don't have any deeper friendships with anyone currently and I'm so very much looking into finding solitude, 'cause I'm quite tired of people. So I might not be the best person to give the advice.

 

[Glordag]

After a more recent bout of attempting to go out, have fun, belong to groups, etc., and then comparing and contrasting that to how I feel when I stay home and work on projects/hobbies and game/watch movies/read/etc., it's decidedly clear that I truly enjoy being alone so much more. That said, complete isolation leaves an empty hole that somehow bothers me. Drat!

 

[EyeSeeCold]

It's expected that people experience more as they age thus becoming wiser. That does not necessarily mean you will become more social, perhaps you will fully realize the futility of superficial relationships and find a satisfying method of coping.

 

[myexplodingcat]

But if you only see others enjoying that "something," why does that automatically mean that you'd enjoy it? You're not them. Even if most people do enjoy this, it needs to be kept in mind that most people aren't INTPs.

We're more interested in our thoughts and ourselves for company.

I wonder if a clone of an INTP would be the original INTP's best friend? If the clone was started early and they were in the same age group? Would the personality automatically transfer? (Probably not, but it's worth contemplating.) Oh. Wait. Off-topic. Going off somewhere again.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

But if you only see others enjoying that "something," why does that automatically mean that you'd enjoy it? You're not them. Even if most people do enjoy this, it needs to be kept in mind that most people aren't INTPs.

I don't think the emphasis is on enjoyment of a particular activity(in this case, socializing in a coffee shop) so much as it is enjoyment in general. Although, you did make a good point.

We're more interested in our thoughts and ourselves for company.

I'm not sure if all INTPs agree with this, I know I don't. I'd prefer a healthy amount of external stimulation.

I wonder if a clone of an INTP would be the original INTP's best friend? If the clone was started early and they were in the same age group? Would the personality automatically transfer? (Probably not, but it's worth contemplating.) Oh. Wait. Off-topic. Going off somewhere again.

You can become best friends with anyone, given the appropriate circumstances.

 

[Architect]

I'm an older/wiser INTP. I was fairly social when younger, partially because I knew that was the time in my life for it. As I've gotten older I'm less so, and unfortunately as a parent you get pushed into ever more superficial relationships. The 'mommy & daddy' conversations are as bad as they sound. I do have a couple close friends, met both at work, one is an INTP and the other an ISXP. Oddly I like the ISXP better, he's more willing to talk about anything if you can believe that.

At any rate my advice to a younger INTP is that the single most important thing you can do is find a mind mate - get yourself an INFJ (for the males at least, I understand INTP women don't like INFJ men as much, in that case I don't have any good advice.) The INFJ can be quite erratic and loudly emotional, but they respect your need for space and can be very loving and caring, and they'll love all your weird theories about life. If you have one it'll satisfy 80%-90% of your companionship needs, and the rest can be filled by whatever little friendships you find.

 

[Synchro]

Cavallier said:

At some point I figured out that having somebody to love is something I need. It's a deeply disturbing thought. It shakes me to my core. Why do I fear love?

BE afraid, be very afraid. I love this forum, FINALLY, people like me...but I think most of you are much younger than me...and being in love, really loving someone, is damned dangerous, if you pick the wrong one. I was madly in love with an ENFP for 25 years, but what I didn't know was that she was secretly holding every little mis-perception on her part (that I was withdrawing, that I didn't care, that I didn't love her, etc, etc, despite writing some of the best sonnets for her ever written!! ) ... until she dumped me by text, after reuniting with an old boyfriend her own age (whose type I don't know and don't care - I really think the age thing was just as big a part).

Then I found out what emotional hell is like...I didn't realize before it happened what it would be like, but essentially just imagine that you're addicted to heroin, and then all of a sudden you're cut off - cold turkey. FUN

So, having known love, I have to go out and find another, and figure out how the hell to keep the bitch happy, and I'm not frigging happy about it, trust me, not having to do so unexpectedly at 60 - and the sheer inefficiency of the whole process drives me nuts!!!

PS: could it possibly be that the best match for an INTP is an INTP??????

 

[Synchro]

Architect said:

Spoiler

At any rate my advice to a younger INTP is that the single most important thing you can do is find a mind mate - get yourself an INFJ (for the males at least,

This is INTERESTING. I don't wanna screw it up again...anyone have an opinion on whether Architect is right about an INFJ female for an INTP male???

 

[Meer]

Depends on who you ask, but I would say yesssss. You can find some opinions about it on the interwebs. My experience with an INFJ was pretty great.

But I'm just a kid.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

People are strange...

Embrace the Loner Realm.