why are INTP's partial to drugs? i thought INTP's didn't like emotional manipulation. . .

[Cosmic]

based on INTP profiles, it seems that INTP's don't generally like our emotions to be manipulated. i myself can attest that i am picky with the music i choose to listen to at any given moment. it depends highly on how i'm feeling, and i'm not too open to change the way i'm feeling and accommodate another song. another example i've read is that INTP's tend to be very critical with movies as opposed to just "going with it," and letting it move one. i don't personally relate to this. movies are the only thing in life that make me cry, and i'm not ready to give that up. but that's besides the point. what i'm wondering is why INTP's tend to be OK with letting drugs manipulate their emotion and mindset? now i realize most INTP's don't use drugs, but a significant amount do, moreso than other types i trust is safe to speculate.

from my own standpoint involving my drug use as well as an INTP friend i grew up with, it was the novelty that we were attracted to before we ever experimented with anything. we were also into psychology beforehand, so the hole thing with altered states of consciousness and perspectives were extremely fascinating. then i guess we got feindy lol. so it was never really with the outright intention of manipulating our emotion for its own sake, but i'd say we both do that at times. oh got a final at noon? adderall! going to a rave? lemme get some molly. OH OUTDOOR MUSIC FESTIVAL WHAT A PLEASANT TIME TO SHROOM. etc. etc.

 

[Words]

It depends on the kind of manipulation. Manipulation of feelings by inanimate objects has little-to-nothing to do with being intp---whether it's listening to music or doing drugs. The observable manipulation of feelings by humans, on the other hand, is related to inferior Fe.

Also, INTP is a broad category, so it should be confined by general aspects, not like the specifics your mentioning.

 

[Cosmic]

It depends on the kind of manipulation. Manipulation of feelings by inanimate objects has little-to-nothing to do with being intp---whether it's listening to music or doing drugs. The observable manipulation of feelings by humans, on the other hand, is related to inferior Fe.

Also, INTP is a broad category, so it should be confined by general aspects, not like the specifics your mentioning.

hi Words, the consensus among the profiles i've read would seem to suggest that manipulation by inanimate objects are indeed relevant. i should've stated it earlier, but the examples i illustrated regarding movies and music are ones that are presented often enough regarding the topic of INTP's and manipulation.

i appreciate the abstraction you've contributed, but i have to respectfully disagree with the premise that specific anecdotes should be avoided as that is how patterns come to light and, speaking in broader terms than the context of this board, models can consequently be constructed. personally, i'd find value in knowing how you feel about movies/music/drugs/whatever pertains to the question at hand (i'm just saying; not hinting)

but going back to the generalization you've offered, you're saying that inferior Fe lends itself to the vulnerability of being easily manipulated, accounting for the generality that, given that Fe isn't generally very developed among INTP's, INTP's tend to be weary of manipulation, correct? that makes a lot of sense, and i'll go on to say that maybe such habits, by the vary nature of habits, go on to extend to the inanimate realm, accounting for what i've gathered to be recurring observations.

and on that note, would you say that, in a similar sense to the way INTP's tend to like playing devil's advocate, individuals with relatively developed Fe and/or Fi might ENJOY being "manipulated"? as it isn't manipulation in the truest sense in this idea, but perhaps rather an opportunity for the individual to solidify or mold their own values/thoughts/feelings/etc. in what is perceived to be a non-threatening manner.

 

[Synthetix]

For me, drugs don't manipulate my emotions, they either uncover them or allow me to have different emotional reactions to things. These different emotional reactions cause you to think about the subject in a way you usually wouldn't... It can be interesting, sometimes scary, sometimes rewarding.

 

[Words]

hi Words, the consensus among the profiles i've read would seem to suggest that manipulation by inanimate objects are indeed relevant. i should've stated it earlier, but the examples i illustrated regarding movies and music are ones that are presented often enough regarding the topic of INTP's and manipulation.

That doesn't make sense if we consider the functions, which, I think, is where these profiles supposedly reached their conclusions from. INTP's have Fe, not Fi. Having Fe means having[for the large part] an emotional system driven by an intuitive external standard(Fe with "e" for external), which can only come from animate objects, considering that they're the only emotional agents. Inanimate objects don't do anything to supposed emotional standard.

i appreciate the abstraction you've contributed, but i have to respectfully disagree with the premise that specific anecdotes should be avoided as that is how patterns come to light and, speaking in broader terms than the context of this board, models can consequently be constructed. personally, i'd find value in knowing how you feel about movies/music/drugs/whatever pertains to the question at hand (i'm just saying; not hinting)

I guess I spoke too assumingly. I've concluded that the particular details you've mentioned as irrelevant because:

1. It contradicts with the assumed existence/arrangement of INTP's cognitive functions in relation to Fe.
2. I, myself, don't care about inanimate objects manipulating my emotions, but do care when people do.
3. Certain specific anecdotes should be avoided because most of it is largely correlational. People can like/dislike things because of events that have occurred in their life or for other non-type reasons and such.

Number 1 is backed by simple application of the idea of Fe. Certain people respond to shared collective emotional standards whereas others(Fi-Te,Te-Fi) are ignorant of those standards, for the most part. As an Fe-type, one can assert a standard of emotion, via a smile for example, and another Fe-type nearby will simply react to the assertions likewise with a smile, if under normal conditions. The more reactive(observed via facial cues for example) a person is to the shared emotion, the more likely the person is an Fe type. Although I do know one assumed INFP that reacts so strongly to shared emotions... Other IxFP's, I know, however, are visibly oblivious to this "language."

but going back to the generalization you've offered, you're saying that inferior Fe lends itself to the vulnerability of being easily manipulated, accounting for the generality that, given that Fe isn't generally very developed among INTP's, INTP's tend to be weary of manipulation, correct? that makes a lot of sense, and i'll go on to say that maybe such habits, by the vary nature of habits, go on to extend to the inanimate realm, accounting for what i've gathered to be recurring observations.

I'm not sure if inferior Fe means being easily manipulable...and I don't understand how that can transfer and affect dealings with the inanimate. I'd imagine it to be minimal if ever it does happen. Person and object is really different.

and on that note, would you say that, in a similar sense to the way INTP's tend to like playing devil's advocate, individuals with relatively developed Fe and/or Fi might ENJOY being "manipulated"? as it isn't manipulation in the truest sense in this idea, but perhaps rather an opportunity for the individual to solidify or mold their own values/thoughts/feelings/etc. in what is perceived to be a non-threatening manner.

This, I can agree.

 

[MEDICaustik]

On topic: I hear wonderful things about LSD, though I have yet to have the balls to do it.

If you have dropped acid, please do share your experiences

 

[xbox]

I used to drink but I stopped because I hated the feeling afterwards.
I refuse to take medication that doctors once prescribed to me (ADD or something)
the only drug I do take is caffeine.. only because it happens to naturally occur in tea and coffee which i thoroughly enjoy.

 

[GYX_Kid]

You can control it if you know what/how much you're taking.
Also an emotion can be interesting to experience.

 

[Hadoblado]

I too take issue with your premise that INTP's have problems with non-sentient manipulation, it does not add up for me.

That aside, drugs are experimental. I would certainly not find it a contradiction in terms to see an INTP experiment with drugs, though the degree to which an INTP values the full function of their mind might also be a little higher.

Do you refer to full blown habitual drug abuse? The number of habitual drug abusers on here would differ significantly from the number of experimenters (as this is the general trend w/e demographic you're looking at).

 

[Darby]

I smoked pot twice, both times produced nothing but absolute fear. ok, the second time was substantially better because I kind of knew it was coming. The first however I can only describe as sheer terror. Probably something to do with the blacking out and coming to in a place that although seemed like my house, clearly was not the same house in my head. My perceptions were thoroughly fucked up, and I was not okay with it AT ALL.

So I smoked once and once only, not having any desire to feel that kinf of total fear again. Until, of course, my curiosity got the better of me. My friends said what I had smoked originally probably had salvia in it, and that was why I was so fucked the first time. so 2 years after the first incident I tried it again.

It went significantly better, but I basically sat there on the couch trying to convince myself that I wasn't stuck in a solipsistic loop of my life. Doomed to repeat my mediocre life forever and ever into eternity, utterly alone. I basically went "well fuck it, I won't be able to tell, and at the very least I should try to make this eternal loop not quite so shitty, I need to do something with my fucking life."

Basically I don't like weed, it does not create pleasant emotions in me, I feel totally manipulated as I don't regularly have these kinds of thoughts on that kind of level, but I know, that eventually I will probably do it again just to see what happens and if it's still just as awful, and if I can figure out why I'm so stuck in that emotional rut when I do get high.

 

[Affinity]

I would think it has more to do with perceptive manipulation which leads to new experiences as well as learning. Don't forget, we are a curious and rebellious breed. I recall my love for MDMA aside from the serotonin rush is that I felt more open, extroverted, talkative, and was able to put more emphasis on feeling. Pretty much, it helped me bring out a lot of my shadow functions. It was a great learning experience I would not have been able to achieve otherwise. I see drugs simply as a tool, much like a cup of coffee or a can of energy drink.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I've never done any drugs, recreationally.

 

[omegatripod]

I've never done any drugs, recreationally.

This.^

 

[DetachedRetina]

On topic: I hear wonderful things about LSD, though I have yet to have the balls to do it.

If you have dropped acid, please do share your experiences

It's worth trying unless you're an anxious type, though it won't lead to any groundbreaking revelations or anything (it might make you feel like you understand the universe)

For me, everything anyone says seems to be dripping with way more symbolism and profundity than it, in reality, actually is. Visuals are kind of an afterthought but they can be cool, mostly stuff seems to melt and breathe. If you close your eyes you might see fractal like patterns.

It's a big experience, and like any experience (a trip to a foreign country, a first kiss, etc.) it is very stimulating and thought provoking. It is also rather hard to explain what tripping is like, so it might be worth a try just because describing it is kind of like trying to describe a smell. You can't really describe it that well.

More on topic, I think INTPs are partial to drug use (if they are, in fact, partial to drug use) because of their innate curiosity about things and desire to learn more. Plus Ne is a pretty open-minded function it seems.

Hallucinogens in particular, provide the INTP with a lot to ponder and mull over and think about even in the days after the trip. They are great combattants of boredom, underwhelmedness, and under-stimulation, so I think that maybe why INTPs tend to love hallucinogens so much.

I am done with the hard drugs though. I would recommend mushrooms.

 

[DetachedRetina]

Basically I don't like weed

I actually don't like weed at all either. I'm surprised I even tried other drugs after weed, but it is definitely my least favorite.

I always have basically the experience of a "bad trip" every time I smoke weed. Even though I never have "bad trips" on real drugs like LSD!

 

[DetachedRetina]

the only drug I do take is caffeine.. only because it happens to naturally occur in tea and coffee which i thoroughly enjoy.

Are you sure the caffeine isn't why you enjoy the tea/coffee in the first place.

I have heard countless smokers say "I have no problem giving up nicotine I just like smoking" but when you give them a nicotine free cigarette they complain that it tastes like crap and gives them a headache (tobacco cigarettes taste like crap and give you a headache from all the carbon monoxide, but an addict doesn't notice the negative feelings because the dopamine cascade in their brains every time they smoke train them to like the taste of ashtrays and the feel of a mild headache like pavlov's dogs)

I myself am a smoker.

 

[Polaris]

I don't know if I'm INTP, but most likely NT of some sort. I absolutely loathed the experience I had with drugs. The first time I smoked pot I had a massive paranoia trip, and the subsequent wasn't much better.

Someone offered me speed once, and I reluctantly accepted, thinking I should just do it for the experiment. This is out of character as I tend to be a control-freak when it comes to my own physical/mental state. I became this extroverted chatter-box, and kept chewing gum like it was the last thing I would ever do on this planet. Then some random biochemist drove me home ( I would never accept this normally either) and I had the most unbelievable and awful come-down the following day. I managed to stay in control as I knew it was related to the drugs, I have never felt so awful.

Perhaps I had some bad shit, I have no clue. I was in very dodgy company, so I was stupid enough to go along with this whole thing to begin with. I regretted it the instant the shit went up my nose; I thought: "oh-oh, here we go".

I have tried e's and that wasn't terrible, but only because I felt nothing. The third time I had drank copious amounts of alcohol, so I ended up throwing up blood in my best friends bed. Nice.

I wouldn't mind trying LSD though, I keep reading about how amazing this is supposed to be. But there's this part of me that just thinks it is pointless. Someone said something about filling a hole. I think there is some truth to this.

I also think it can be a little risky if you are emotionally "unstable".

 

[DetachedRetina]

I wouldn't mind trying LSD though, I keep reading about how amazing this is supposed to be. But there's this part of me that just thinks it is pointless. Someone said something about filling a hole. I think there is some truth to this.

I also think it can be a little risky if you are emotionally "unstable".

I've tried pretty much all the drugs at this point and they all mostly suck except hallucinogens and ecstasy to a lesser extent. I am an advocate of trying at least mushrooms once

My only advice would be to go into it expecting a good time not insight into your life or "filling a hole" or anything.

 

[Affinity]

I don't know if I'm INTP, but most likely NT of some sort. I absolutely loathed the experience I had with drugs. The first time I smoked pot I had a massive paranoia trip, and the subsequent wasn't much better.

Someone offered me speed once, and I reluctantly accepted, thinking I should just do it for the experiment. This is out of character as I tend to be a control-freak when it comes to my own physical/mental state. I became this extroverted chatter-box, and kept chewing gum like it was the last thing I would ever do on this planet. Then some random biochemist drove me home ( I would never accept this normally either) and I had the most unbelievable and awful come-down the following day. I managed to stay in control as I knew it was related to the drugs, I have never felt so awful.

Perhaps I had some bad shit, I have no clue. I was in very dodgy company, so I was stupid enough to go along with this whole thing to begin with. I regretted it the instant the shit went up my nose; I thought: "oh-oh, here we go".

I have tried e's and that wasn't terrible, but only because I felt nothing. The third time I had drank copious amounts of alcohol, so I ended up throwing up blood in my best friends bed. Nice.

I wouldn't mind trying LSD though, I keep reading about how amazing this is supposed to be. But there's this part of me that just thinks it is pointless. Someone said something about filling a hole. I think there is some truth to this.

I also think it can be a little risky if you are emotionally "unstable".

Moderation is key.

 

[DetachedRetina]

Yes^

 

[Affinity]

My only advice would be to go into it expecting a good time not insight into your life or "filling a hole" or anything.

For your first few times, I would agree. But if you want to witness just how powerful your mind is and experience the full potential of mushies, attempt the latter.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I personally feel no compulsion or desire to try drugs.

 

[DetachedRetina]

I personally feel no compulsion or desire to try drugs.

You aren't curious?

Have you ever had caffeine or alcohol?

 

[Darby]

It's worth trying unless you're an anxious type, though it won't lead to any groundbreaking revelations or anything (it might make you feel like you understand the universe)

For me, everything anyone says seems to be dripping with way more symbolism and profundity than it, in reality, actually is. Visuals are kind of an afterthought but they can be cool, mostly stuff seems to melt and breathe. If you close your eyes you might see fractal like patterns.

It's a big experience, and like any experience (a trip to a foreign country, a first kiss, etc.) it is very stimulating and thought provoking. It is also rather hard to explain what tripping is like, so it might be worth a try just because describing it is kind of like trying to describe a smell. You can't really describe it that well.

More on topic, I think INTPs are partial to drug use (if they are, in fact, partial to drug use) because of their innate curiosity about things and desire to learn more. Plus Ne is a pretty open-minded function it seems.

Hallucinogens in particular, provide the INTP with a lot to ponder and mull over and think about even in the days after the trip. They are great combattants of boredom, underwhelmedness, and under-stimulation, so I think that maybe why INTPs tend to love hallucinogens so much.

I am done with the hard drugs though. I would recommend mushrooms.

So after all this, I see you recommend mushrooms, I'm just a tad curious (saying this already makes me feel like it's too late to not do them, curiosity killed the cat I suppose) about other drugs, I do happen to be of the anxious type, and weed simply isn't an option, did not go well as I've already stated. I'm a very controlled person, so when I smoked and I wasn't in control of myself or my emotions anymore I flipped out. Trying to figure out if that pretty much means I should stay away from most everything or not.

 

[mke2686]

I use drugs to gain perspective, I do most of my reading while under the influence of something...

 

[Kuu]

Drugs don't "manipulate", drugs alter your perceptions. Due to that, they can of course be used for purposes of manipulation, but just by themselves they do not. Manipulation involves conscious intent.

 

[DetachedRetina]

So after all this, I see you recommend mushrooms, I'm just a tad curious (saying this already makes me feel like it's too late to not do them, curiosity killed the cat I suppose) about other drugs, I do happen to be of the anxious type, and weed simply isn't an option, did not go well as I've already stated. I'm a very controlled person, so when I smoked and I wasn't in control of myself or my emotions anymore I flipped out. Trying to figure out if that pretty much means I should stay away from most everything or not.

I don't know I'm kind of the same way but for some reason mushrooms don't flip me out.

I wouldn't try them unless you're optimistic about it though, or at least start with a low dose.

 

[Darby]

I don't know I'm kind of the same way but for some reason mushrooms don't flip me out.

I wouldn't try them unless you're optimistic about it though, or at least start with a low dose.

Optimism doesn't even really enter my thinking, I'm really curious, and thinking that since it isn't weed it won't activate my paranoia quite so bad.

 

[Meer]

So after all this, I see you recommend mushrooms, I'm just a tad curious (saying this already makes me feel like it's too late to not do them, curiosity killed the cat I suppose) about other drugs, I do happen to be of the anxious type, and weed simply isn't an option, did not go well as I've already stated. I'm a very controlled person, so when I smoked and I wasn't in control of myself or my emotions anymore I flipped out. Trying to figure out if that pretty much means I should stay away from most everything or not.

I also am an anxious person who almost always is uncomfortable during marijuana. But, I still did it. Small amounts, slowly is best.

What I'm trying to say is that, even though it might not be fun at all, super anxiety weed times can be useful. Actually, it's kind of neat that you have a pretty simple thing that will put you on an almost guaranteed difficult quest. Anxiety from one substance doesn't necessarily preclude you from being okay with other ones.

 

[Darby]

I also am an anxious person who almost always is uncomfortable during marijuana. But, I still did it. Small amounts, slowly is best.

What I'm trying to say is that, even though it might not be fun at all, super anxiety weed times can be useful. Actually, it's kind of neat that you have a pretty simple thing that will put you on an almost guaranteed difficult quest. Anxiety from one substance doesn't necessarily preclude you from being okay with other ones.

Yeah, the second time I was in a much better/safer place, and it went alright, the problem is that I get stuck thinking in circles, specifically the whole "everythings all in my head, and nothing is real" solipsism crap. which I end up spending a long time dealing with that until I finally get so frustrated with myself that I just say "FUCK IT! I'm making the best of an emotionally unsatisfying situation!" My primary motivation for living a good life is somewhere deep inside believing that I will live this life on repeat until the end of eternity (I have said why in other threads), so I should make it the best that I can.

I'm dreadfully curious about other drugs and how those experiences may go though, I don't believe I am relegated to shitty highs for my entire life, but because I feel so open and have that loss of control, I know I couldn't do it with anyone I didn't trust completely.

 

[Philosophyking87]

I don't think drugs manipulate us emotionally. The reason is that drugs are no more emotionally manipulative than is a very stimulating time hanging out with friends. It's fun; it feels good. Emotional manipulation isn't "what makes you feel good," but "what makes you behave in reaction to a certain stimulus -- either good or bad" (i.e. "non-rational persuasion").

For instance, someone telling me how sad it is that animals are abused and showing very sad, puppy-dog eyes is not going to move me; I need a "proper argument," or some "reason to care for the situation." Mere emotional appeal does not work. Or conversely, someone showing me awesome pictures of people having fun, being happy, and loving life isn't going to help me decide to visit some very expensive resort. I want reasons, not just emotional appeals. I don't want "non-rational persuasion" (and that's what INTPs dislike).

Since drugs are just a state of altered consciousness that actually feels good, you can't really say that drugs are akin to the blatant aforementioned appeals to emotion. Drugs don't get you to think or do something. Since emotional manipulation involves "using certain emotions to incline someone toward some thought, attitude, or action," drugs fall outside of what should logically be considered "emotional manipulation."

Moreover, INTPs are perceivers (intP). Perceivers are called perceivers because they bear "extraverted perception functions" (either Ne or Se). Extraverted Perception functions often compel people toward very stimulating experiences. Thus, you have Se types who love to sky dive and take bodily risks, while many Ne types love trying all sorts of drugs and sexual experiences (though of course both types can easily do all of the above). And while some judgers are also capable of doing these things, it seems there's clearly a larger likelihood that perceivers are often the main types of people driven towards these very questionable experiences.

Well, put it all together. INTPs -- being NPs, and therefore, being a type with an "extraverted perceiving" function (Ne) -- are going to have this obsession with odd experiences, just like the dominant Ne types (ENFP and ENTP), not to mention a very similar experience to INFPs (who also bear a secondary Ne function).

So that's probably "why" INTPs like drugs.
They are fun experiences that we desire and they don't really "manipulate" us in the same sense as those forms of emotional appeal which we do utterly abhor. They "alter" consciousness -- they don't really "manipulate." Manipulate sort of implies that there is a "conscious actor." Yet drugs are not conscious actors; they are merely substances.

Big difference, I'm afraid.
Thus, I think there's an equivocation here -- the word "manipulate."

Don't forget, we are a curious and rebellious breed.

Indeed. We are perceivers.
It's because of Ne that we are both curious and rebellious

It depends on the kind of manipulation. Manipulation of feelings by inanimate objects has little-to-nothing to do with being intp.

Indeed.
Inanimate effects =/= (are not akin to) intentional effects.
Intention clearly implies conscious intelligence.
Drugs are inanimate substances.

I too take issue with your premise that INTP's have problems with non-sentient manipulation, it does not add up for me.

I like the term "non-sentient."
Although, I believe the word "manipulation" is also applied incorrectly.
Drugs don't manipulate in the same sense as a human being does.
Drugs merely alter one's brain state.

-------

Also, I only personally drink alcohol occasionally.
I'm discouraged by the potential effects other drugs can have.
Though clearly, I understand why many people do them.

Ultimately, if one does most drugs responsible, it's merely optional.
Those who judge drug-users are unnecessarily judgmental, imo

Moderation is key.

Agreed.
It's excess that leads to problems.
Moderate drugs use is completely trivial.

You aren't curious?

Have you ever had caffeine or alcohol?

I'm curious, to some extent.
I'm just a "control-freak," as someone said.
I dislike the very possibility of dealing with drug-related issues.
But it is entirely optional if one wishes to act on their curiosity.

It's just a personal choice to refrain.

Drugs don't "manipulate", drugs alter your perceptions. Due to that, they can of course be used for purposes of manipulation, but just by themselves they do not. Manipulation involves conscious intent.

Asshole. You beat me to the punch!!!
Good job. This is my entire post compressed into three sentences.

 

[Philosophyking87]

Drugs don't "manipulate", drugs alter your perceptions. Due to that, they can of course be used for purposes of manipulation, but just by themselves they do not. Manipulation involves conscious intent.

^^^ The crucial conceptual/logical flaw in the OP.

Rational Ti leads to a need for autonomy and "reason."
Experimental Ne leads to a desire to try fun experiences.

Thus, we dislike someone using emotion (the primary focus of our weakest function) to persuade us in a way which is not rational, as it amounts to a form of illogical control over our minds). We want things to make sense before we "choose" to accept them on the basis of sound logical reasoning. Emotional manipulation prevents this, and we feel as though our autonomy has been violated. And we like drugs, which are fun experiences, due to the caused alterations in our brain state/consciousness, which are only in a sense said to "manipulate" us "emotionally." But clearly, drugs don't really "manipulate" us in terms of using emotion to compel us to accept irrational conclusions, or to influence us to take unwarranted actions (such as giving money to charity "just because someone is crying in the street"). Drugs make us feel things, but they don't make us think or do things based on mere feelings. Hence, the word "manipulation" has been misapplied to create a ridiculous contradiction which doesn't actually exist.

We INTPs don't want to be emotionally manipulated; we want rational freedom, control, and the right to make rational choices. We highly abhor making decisions or taking actions based on anything but valid, logical reasoning. We also often want new experiences like drugs, where drugs somewhat manipulate our perception (in a sense). Yet, it makes more sense, after looking at our functions, to realize that our need for "autonomy" and "choice" is actually good reason to believe we want to experience things like drugs (experiences we are driven to undertake according to Ne) without people forcing or manipulating us to think otherwise. If we want to take drugs (Ne), we want to be able to make the decisions on our own, for our own reasons (Ti), without emotional appeal or appeal to force (inferior Fe, because we don't work well with emotions, only reason).

So function-wise, INTP drug use makes a helluva lot of sense.
Our dislike for emotional appeals has nothing to do with our desire for crazy experiences.

/thread (unless we wish to just use this as a discussion for the various types of drugs we INTPs tend to use, or have used? lol)

 

[DetachedRetina]

Yeah, the second time I was in a much better/safer place, and it went alright, the problem is that I get stuck thinking in circles, specifically the whole "everythings all in my head, and nothing is real" solipsism crap. which I end up spending a long time dealing with that until I finally get so frustrated with myself that I just say "FUCK IT! I'm making the best of an emotionally unsatisfying situation!" My primary motivation for living a good life is somewhere deep inside believing that I will live this life on repeat until the end of eternity (I have said why in other threads), so I should make it the best that I can.

I'm dreadfully curious about other drugs and how those experiences may go though, I don't believe I am relegated to shitty highs for my entire life, but because I feel so open and have that loss of control, I know I couldn't do it with anyone I didn't trust completely.

If you have a true curiosity mushrooms could be great. I have very strikingly similar problems with weed (specifically the thought circle thing.) That actually happens when I trip too, but for some reason it's like I'm clear headed enough to work through things. When I smoke weed I just feel stupid.

It's like if I get high I'm being jammed into an experience. I am getting on the ride.

But with hallucinogens it's like I can sort of control the experience a little bit more.

But I don't want to talk about it too much more or I'll start sounding like an old hippy that doesn't make sense. My advice is try it at a low dose so the worst that happens is you have a bad day. Then if you like it try higher doses if you want.

 

[DetachedRetina]

I can totally understand being scared of the consequences of drug use: Health consequences, legal consequences, potential addiction for some drugs, the list goes on.

It is definitely a stupid decision to do drugs when looked at rationally in a cost/benefit light.

What I don't understand is a complete lack of curiosity.

 

[DetachedRetina]

and OP is long gone.

 

[snafupants]

I can totally understand being scared of the consequences of drug use: Health consequences, legal consequences, potential addiction for some drugs, the list goes on.

It is definitely a stupid decision to do drugs when looked at rationally in a cost/benefit light.

What I don't understand is a complete lack of curiosity.

I disagree with that blanket statement. Sometimes forgoing drugs is illogical and silly.

 

[DetachedRetina]

True that was a blanket statement. I should try to avoid those.

What are drugs anyways though? Everything you put in your body affects your mood. Alcohol is a drug. Coffee and cigarettes probably count as drugs. Is sugar to be considered a drug? B-vitamins? Protein?

Aside from which physical activity, sex, sun exposure, and video games can all drastically affect your neurochemical balance sometimes as much as antidepressants like SSRIs and NDRIs. I don't understand the definition of "drug" or "addiction" at all I guess, and that makes a discussion of drug use difficult for me.

 

[Maturin]

I have done pretty much every drug on the planet, and I do have a few tips:

1. The way I did LSD was very INTP-like, I think: I would split up a "hit" into 1/16-ths, and take a 1/16th. Then I would take an 1/8th...etc. I found I could titrate it so I would get this 5 minute high, then be back to normal quickly.

2. I once blew a straight A in Probability class by using meth for the first time ever to cram for the final. Bad idea; I was so zonked when I went in, I didn't hear the prof say we could use the log tables in the back of the text book - so, zonked out on meth, I tried to hand-derive all the logs LOL!!!!!!!!!!! When I turned in the final, the prof looked at me really weird, looked at my answer sheet, and said, "Well, I guess you'll have to settle for a "B", because you just flunked the final"

3. From readings in ethnobotany, I do believe that humans evolved a spiritual understanding of themselves and their world originally through the use of magic shrooms. I believe this is still an important or useful tool. Then the ESomaniacs took over, and it's been alcohol (and now coke) ever since for the ruling class, and true sprituality has been crushed.

4. If you REALLY WANT A TRIP, do Ibogaine.

Ibogaine - and huascaya (sp?) - is a very special drug: it forces you to see yourself as you really are...and let me tell you, that can be a very scary thing at first. But enlightening, and a true grounding in your own reality.

Here's what happened to me: for about 30 hours straight, in the grip of ibogaine, I found the real "me" - the no bullshit, true me that saw everything clearly - and I got to watch all the persona's I had created over time (not multiple personalities, just my deluded self struggling through life) and all my dumb mistakes. Every single frigging one. Oh, yeah. And, the whole time, you feel kind of like...well, on fire...not precisely, but sort of...and it is not fun.

But, at the end, I knew who I really was, I had the incredibly reinforcing knowledge that I now knew the difference between my true thining and the bullshit of "me" getting obsessed, or manipulated, or compromised, or all the things that happen to INTP's when we are not solidly grounded in our own clarity of thinking.

So, I'm glad I did it - BUT I NEVER EVER WANT TO DO IT AGAIN (DID I SAY I NEVER EVER WANT TO DO IT AGAIN?)

 

[HesDeadJim]

I think that you're being far to general in equating the effects of drugs across the board with emotional manipulation. Sure, certain drugs can stimulate artificial emotions that can be overpowering (MDMA, MDPV, yada-yada), but there are certain drugs that aid in introspection; an INTP's garden, so to speak. I use to be highly averse to recreational drug use and maintained a self-righteous attitude about it up until recently when I decided to smoke pot with my bros for an entire week. During this time I found that I was able to more easily visualize things; my imagination was, in a sense, re-awoken. Also, I was able to approach things from a slightly altered perspective. After that experience I have taken up casual smoking; I generally listen to music while "elevated" and generally end up having a fascinating thought life. I started taking notes a couple weeks back; I recommend it.

Oh and as an additional benefit, marijuana takes the edge of some of my social anxiety. Which, although not seriously crippling as I appear to many to be somewhat extroverted, has definitely increased my quality of life.

I apologize if I'm reiterating a couple themes previously elaborated on by other members; I didn't read many of the other posts. Quite a volume.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

You aren't curious?

Have you ever had caffeine or alcohol?

Caffeine yes, alcohol no. I don't make a habit of caffeine usage; I only use caffeine rarely.

Anything that can cause short or long term loss of brain function I try to avoid. Not only am I still responsible for my actions during this time, but the action in and of itself is illegal. These are my personal views and you are free to act how you want, but I will try to avoid usage.

 

[DetachedRetina]

Caffeine yes, alcohol no. I don't make a habit of caffeine usage; I only use caffeine rarely.

Anything that can cause short or long term loss of brain function I try to avoid. Not only am I still responsible for my actions during this time, but the action in and of itself is illegal. These are my personal views and you are free to act how you want, but I will try to avoid usage.

May I ask how old you are?

Only because I find this view to be very common and probably healthy amongst high-schoolers and even early college years, but if you're in your late 20s or beyond and you've never tried alcohol at all that strikes me as a bit odd (at least for an american/western european)

You see, the ability to appreciate a glass of wine with dinner, or to relate to the many metaphors and references to alcohol and buzzed-ness in our culture is something you miss out on if you take a tea-totaler approach.

You are putting yourself in the minority and seriously ignoring a lot of potential cultural knowledge gained.

It is obviously okay to drink a bit of alcohol once in a while. (not binge drink)

I dunno, I guess my views are clear. I couldn't resist the curiosity if I were you.

Not that getting drunk is all that great. It kind of sucks actually.

 

[DetachedRetina]

It's like a less drastic case of living a life of celibacy.

If you were a monk and subscribed to asceticism you would miss out on relating to all the love poems, literature, etc. Further you wouldn't be married or have children which I see as a part of the human experience and a great opportunity for growth and learning. I see never drinking as a very mild form of this.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

May I ask how old you are?

Only because I find this view to be very common and probably healthy amongst high-schoolers and even early college years, but if you're in your late 20s or beyond and you've never tried alcohol at all that strikes me as a bit odd (at least for an american/western european)

You see, the ability to appreciate a glass of wine with dinner, or to relate to the many metaphors and references to alcohol and buzzed-ness in our culture is something you miss out on if you take a tea-totaler approach.

You are putting yourself in the minority and seriously ignoring a lot of potential cultural knowledge gained.

It is obviously okay to drink a bit of alcohol once in a while. (not binge drink)

I dunno, I guess my views are clear. I couldn't resist the curiosity if I were you.

Not that getting drunk is all that great. It kind of sucks actually.

lol he's trying to get you drunk @ Dr Freeman
Seriously though, this post is in bad taste. What's with the pushy persuasion?

 

[DetachedRetina]

bad taste?

I'm not trying to get Dr Freeman drunk. I'm advocating experience as a means to growth. In MODERATION

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Yea, bad taste. What's with the pushy persuasion and judging him for not being a drinker?

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I am 18, but I have no intention of drinking at any point in my life. (for both the stated reasons and religion)

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Also, The part about myself that I like most is my intelligence, and it seems less than intelligent to do anything to jeopardize that.

 

[DetachedRetina]

Okay, good point.

@Dr Freeman I'm not trying to persuade you to get drunk or judge you for not drinking. None of this is directly pointed at you, and I'm trying to make an impersonal argument for the case of trying drugs in moderation.

I'm trying to liken trying out drinking alcohol to trying out pretty much anything. I think it is a common human experience around which a lot of human culture has developed. It is like reading Shakespeare. I believe it helps put other literature into perspective.

Anyways, I'm generally an advocate of seeing things from other perspectives, so maybe I should put more effort into trying to understand staunch sobriety. I am not trying to insult or judge or persuade/control. I'm putting forward my opinion.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I recongnize the value of seeing things from a different perspective, but should not happen at the expense of somthing as important as cognative function or religion. Experiencing somthing for primarily because "everyone's doing it" is an appeal to the masses and is not a valid reason to do somthing. I personally do not feel the need to relate to the masses.

 

[DetachedRetina]

I can respect religion as a valid reason for not drinking.

I do not agree about losing cognitive function. You will not lose any appreciable amount of intellect from having two glasses of wine and that being the end of it.

You may not care to relate to the masses, but I posit that we all have something to learn from them.