Esoteric Films

[not]

What are some 'good' esoteric films? (good could mean entertaining, thought provoking, well hidden, timely, important...)

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

I suggest the movie Primer. By far one of the most esoteric, complicated and down right confusing movies I have ever seen.

 

[Puffy]

It really depends on what you mean by esoteric: involving occultic themes, inaccessible or for specialised audiences like experimental films? I don't know if you just mean "cerebral" in which case I'd refer you to a lot of the films highlighted in this thread: http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=7089

 

[Brontosaurie]

maybe jodorowsky films, for example el topo and holy mountain

not sure what you mean by esoteric

 

[Puffy]

^ If you mean occultic definitely. Also basically anything by Maya Deren and Kenneth Anger, and a lot of Stan Brakhage too. I would say, Jodorowsky included, that they are all very unconventional film-makers though -- they all eschew popular narrative forms quite heavily and are generally confusing upon initial viewing.

 

[nanook]

"dead ringers" has an esoteric feel to it, since the actor is a clone of rudolf steiner but the protagonist also develops a profound break with common sense reality.

"naked lunch" is kafkaesk like eraser head ... i feel that schizotym is close to esoteric. i could probably think of more schizo movies, cuz i collect them. but i'm an eraser head, so recalling stuff is difficult.

"institute benjamenta" is rather esoteric in a very literal sense, it involves a secret school

 

[Latte]

As Anthile got a bit short of mentioning in the other thread, Tarkovsky is God. Stalker is my personal favorite.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Eyes Wide Shut
was pretty Mulholland Drive-ish. The dialogue or the way characters interact with each other is interesting in that one.

If you do Japanese, Tetsuo: the Iron Man & Electric Dragon 80000v.

They Live is pretty good.

These are getting less obscure, as there is plenty material provided already to gloss through.

I will reinforce, though, that Holy Mountain is excellent.

Bonus:

Spoiler

Salo, or the 120 Days of Sodom

 

[not]

Esoteric in the most general sense of the word, as in, it contains 'hidden meanings' coded into the film that only those who are 'in the know' or 'astute' decode. - But really, I am just looking for above average films to watch.

I just watched Slaughterhouse-Five in the interim time between the original post and this one. I'll check out Primer next.

My personal examples.

Solaris... Excalibur... Matrix... Apocalypse Now...

 

[Puffy]

^ A really great film I don't see mentioned very often is Korine's Julien Donkey-boy...

I'd still recommend the thread I linked to though. I think there are probably more films in that category than could be seen in a life-time.

 

[not]

Enjoyed Primer last night. I'll have to watch it again. So much going on.

 

[wonkavision]

Esoteric in the most general sense of the word, as in, it contains 'hidden meanings' coded into the film that only those who are 'in the know' or 'astute' decode. - But really, I am just looking for above average films to watch.

I just watched Slaughterhouse-Five in the interim time between the original post and this one. I'll check out Primer next.

My personal examples.

Solaris... Excalibur... Matrix... Apocalypse Now...

Yes!

Solaris... Excalibur... Matrix... Apocalypse Now...

GREAT CHOICES


Slaughterhouse-Five is also undoubtably awesome.

Have you seen "Breakfast of Champions"?

For those who don't know, it's another Kurt Vonnegut adaptation, starring Bruce Willis and Nick Nolte, plus a brilliant "Kilgore Trout", played by the excellent Albert Finney.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakfast_of_Champions_(film))

 

[wonkavision]

maybe jodorowsky films, for example el topo and holy mountain

^ If you mean occultic definitely. Also basically anything by Maya Deren and Kenneth Anger, and a lot of Stan Brakhage too. I would say, Jodorowsky included, that they are all very unconventional film-makers though -- they all eschew popular narrative forms quite heavily and are generally confusing upon initial viewing.

Eyes Wide Shut was pretty Mulholland Drive-ish. The dialogue or the way characters interact with each other is interesting in that one.

If you do Japanese, Tetsuo: the Iron Man & Electric Dragon 80000v.

They Live is pretty good.

These are getting less obscure, as there is plenty material provided already to gloss through.

I will reinforce, though, that Holy Mountain is excellent.

YES, yes and YES, to all of the above.

I'm guessing somebody's already mentioned Pink Floyd's "The Wall."

I would also recommend "Room 237," a documentary about various wild conspiracy theories surrounding Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining."

Doesn't get more esoteric than this film.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_237

 

[TimeAsylums]

I doubt it's esoteric, but Student Services is somewhat cringeworthy - while entertaining ideas about human nature in combination with current society.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1570970/ - Mes chères études

 

[r4ch3l]

Tideland

 

[not]

I watched Pi earlier today which was on 'Puffy's' thread list. I saw it when it first came out but now I see so much more in it than before. I noticed that both Primer and Pi reference the number 322. Interesting.

I placed an order for El Topo and Holy Mountain on Blu-ray so I'll wait for those and move on down the list. I have seen Stalker and that should be added to my original list, which was obviously not all inclusive.

I'm intrigued by every single suggestion. Some are easier to get a hold of then others.

Pizzabeek: Seen Eyes Wide Shut, They Live, and Mulholland Drive, so that leaves Tetsuo. Will have to find a copy.

Nanook: Will search for all three of your suggestions.

I've exhausted what is available on Netflix. Am on my way to Movie Stop to see if I can get lucky with one or two of these titles while I wait for Amazon...

 

[not]

Tideland was the film I ended up watching tonight. Mind blown. Strangely relatable.

 

[nanook]

so you put money into movies? maybe i should up my standards for recommendations. but i can't really put a price tag on films, it's too subjective. nevertheless, i can say dead ringers has regular entertainment value, since it has several characters and drama between them. the other two movies are weird and require a different mode of curious receptiveness.

 

[doncarlzone]

This is a rather well known film but have you seen Moon? Should fit your description. Another recent one is Melancholia


I will check out Tideland too, never heard of that one.

 

[not]

Films that deserve to be seen more than once, that deserve attention and respect, I prefer to own them, have them on hand for repeat viewings. I am motivated by my quest for knowledge. I am trying to unlock something with-inside myself.

I have an over all problem with money. It is an archaic system, used for control and domination. But I am also a filmmaker and until the entire system is replaced, it is how I earn my living. It is how I am able to eek out an existence. When one 'takes' films, they think they are hurting the system, they think that they are putting it to the man in the tower, but the man in the tower does not feel the sting, it is the grips, and the grunts that are hurt. It is the people that depend on the industry to feed their families that are robbed and made to suffer. Until money is completely done away with, I do what I can to support the industry that sustains me. I put money towards my education.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Werkmeister Harmonies, Damnation

 

[wonkavision]

Films that deserve to be seen more than once, that deserve attention and respect, I prefer to own them, have them on hand for repeat viewings. I am motivated by my quest for knowledge. I am trying to unlock something with-inside myself.
I have an over all problem with money. It is an archaic system, used for control and domination. But I am also a filmmaker and until the entire system is replaced, it is how I earn my living. It is how I am able to eek out an existence. When one 'takes' films, they think they are hurting the system, they think that they are putting it to the man in the tower, but the man in the tower does not feel the sting, it is the grips, and the grunts that are hurt. It is the people that depend on the industry to feed their families that are robbed and made to suffer. Until money is completely done away with, I do what I can to support the industry that sustains me. I put money towards my education.

Excellent post.

I especially relate to this part:

I am motivated by my quest for knowledge. I am trying to unlock something with-inside myself.

Also, great argument about consumer ethics.


But to stay on topic,

I'd recommend "Beyond the Black Rainbow" and "Synechdoche, New York" for some truly mind-bending, esoteric, fun times.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Spring Breakers

 

[not]

Watched Lars von Trier's Antichrist tonight.

 

[wonkavision]

Watched Lars von Trier's Antichrist tonight.

Oh man, I love that movie (and Von Trier in general).

What'd you think?

 

[r4ch3l]

Watched Lars von Trier's Antichrist tonight.

Check out Dancer in the Dark. Little bit kooky/less edgy but Bjork is brilliant and it's the only movie that ever made me cry (and it felt so gross). I wish she would have continued to act but apparently working with the infamous Lars von Trier scarred her forever and she never made another film again.

 

[not]

Naked Lunch...

 

[Pizzabeak]

Naked Lunch is always great. So many amazing lines, the book & the film. I think someone pointed out that the three friends were all wearing outfits from different eras, Bill's was from the 40s and the other two dudes were wearing stuff from the 50s and 60s respectively, which is apparently remotely interesting.

 

[wonkavision]

Naked Lunch...

YES. One of my all-time favorites.

If you like "Naked Lunch", I recommend Cronenberg's other film "Cosmopolis."

NOT that they're alike as far as STORY/PLOT/NARRATIVE. In that sense, they're nothing like one another.

But as far as the "vibe", the "essence", or the "feel", they share a "kindred spirit." Albeit, in a more subdued way.

 

[not]

@Pizzabeak Interesting observations. - There were several themes in there that seemed to be related to different observations of the occult. The ideas of mind control through the use of psychotropic drugs. The idea of 'initiation' - prove your loyalty by sacrifice. "Time for our William Tell routine." Seems to be a trigger phrase. Lots of references of being subconscious sleeper agents. They mentioned the number 32 a few times, and loved to discuss things with a pyramid metaphor. Both 'sides' of the galactic cold war were interested to learn who was actually at the top of the pyramid.

I vaguely remember seeing this film on cable when I was a teenager and thinking to myself what the 'f' did I just watch. It is quite interesting to revisit films from your past with fresh eyes. I watched last night a favorite film of mine from my childhood, The Last Starfighter, and was surprised at some of the films references. Like the 'Excalibur' test.

I'll have to watch The Naked Lunch again to see if I can glean more from it. It is so dense that I am sure that I have missed quite a bit. (Like I didn't notice that his friends are from different eras, and I don't yet grasp the significance.)

 

[Jennywocky]

Check out Dancer in the Dark. Little bit kooky/less edgy but Bjork is brilliant and it's the only movie that ever made me cry (and it felt so gross). I wish she would have continued to act but apparently working with the infamous Lars von Trier scarred her forever and she never made another film again.

What did you guys think of "Breaking the Waves?"

 

[wonkavision]

What did you guys think of "Breaking the Waves?"

I haven't seen "Breaking the Waves" yet, but I love Lars Von Trier.

For some reason, that particular film just doesn't attract me.

But I'm pretty sure that I will enjoy it if I ever get around to seeing it.

My wife liked it, and we have really similar tastes. (She's INFP)

 

[wonkavision]

Speaking of similar tastes,

It's striking how similar my taste is to all of yours.

What do you guys think of Kafka? Or of the films based on his works?

 

[Pizzabeak]

Are any von Trier fans considering checking out Nymphomaniac?

I always thought the basic outline of Naked Lunch concerned the character Bill Burroughs and his writing process of the novel Naked Lunch. I'm sure there's other stuff in there too but I'd have to revisit it with concentration, probably watch the special features too.

 

[not]

I haven't read the book The Naked Lunch so I have no comparison, though I have read some of Burrough's poetry rantings. I find rewatching films from my past interesting, especially after unlocking some of the basic mysteries. You start to see the patterns. I haven't read any analysis or reviews of The Naked Lunch that discuss the observations that I have been able to make. Possibly I see what I want to see, possibly there is more to the film than meets the eye.

What is exciting to me is not each film individually, but how each film holds a small piece of a larger puzzle that is coming into the light by watching them collectively.

 

[Jennywocky]

Are any von Trier fans considering checking out Nymphomaniac?

I always thought the basic outline of Naked Lunch concerned the character Bill Burroughs and his writing process of the novel Naked Lunch. I'm sure there's other stuff in there too but I'd have to revisit it with concentration, probably watch the special features too.

When is Nympho coming out? I'll watch whatever he puts out.

 

[not]

I have a lot of catching up to do. I still haven't seen half the films discussed above. I have deviated a tad from the thread over budgetary concerns. - I watched Cloud Atlas, The Machinist, The Last Starfighter, and Time Bandits while I sort out getting copies of some of the films brought up.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I think I'm kinda drunk but

There's this one film called Until the End of the World

Is pretty great
I think it's about this dude that invents this special camera so the government chases after him all over the world
Of course there's a girl involved, so they travel together a bit

But it's kinda futuristic/cyberpunk

The theatrical release was a couple hours long but the directors intent was for it to. He five hours long, so there is a 5 hour directors cut version out there that you should seek

A downloadight be he best option

Look into it!

 

[Pizzabeak]

I haven't read the book The Naked Lunch so I have no comparison, though I have read some of Burrough's poetry rantings. I find rewatching films from my past interesting, especially after unlocking some of the basic mysteries. You start to see the patterns. I haven't read any analysis or reviews of The Naked Lunch that discuss the observations that I have been able to make. Possibly I see what I want to see, possibly there is more to the film than meets the eye.

What is exciting to me is not each film individually, but how each film holds a small piece of a larger puzzle that is coming into the light by watching them collectively.

They're different anyway

Besides the talking asshole scene

If anything, reading the lit will provide some context but it isn't required or. Anything, although it is funny as hell sometimes. Well just so ya know I sorta agree with the buying DVD thing when it was convenient, but it might not be so much nowadays. But... Kakakakkakakaakkaakka
Dammit

Yess
It can be applicable for stuff

Anyway this esfj dude I watch films with sometimes manages to point out the most interesting shit that I never catch despite how any times I see the flick

Really opens up a whole new dimension

 

[not]

I watched Donnie Darko again tonight. Now there are 2,443,332 seconds before the world ends.

 

[Reluctantly]

wow, cool; there's a lot of good shit I haven't seen then.

I might have already mentioned these on the forum, but for the thread
The Quiet Earth
Suicide Club
The Cube

edit:
The Fly
Martyrs

Been meaning to see this one for awhile, but never got around to it, so maybe someone else can vouch for it
Vertigo

 

[Reluctantly]

But really, I am just looking for above average films to watch.

Oh okay. Well,

Ran (1985)

 

[Absurdity]

Watched Ridley Scott's Prometheus the other night and thought it was awesome.

 

[Puffy]

Been meaning to see this one for awhile, but never got around to it, so maybe someone else can vouch for it
Vertigo

Possibly my absolute favourite film. Would definitely vouch for it, but I like all the other films in your list as well.

 

[not]

I'm trying to find inspiration for my next script. I want to make the lead character INTP... - Rewatched the entire Matrix series, and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Maybe I should just start free form writing stream of consciousness...

 

[Jennywocky]

With writing, it's best if you can just shut the internal editor up for the first draft. The tendency for me is to edit as I go, but it just derails any progress. Editing is for Draft #2.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Watched Ridley Scott's Prometheus the other night and thought it was awesome.

Dug it too. Apparently a bunch of stuff is stupid, religious and makes no sense.

I didn't care too much, it was a film that drew you in and really could get your pulse pumping all the while being a visual achievement in it's own regard.

 

[nanook]

i may be obnoxious but i never get tired of advertising my bardologic list at imdb

 

[Jennywocky]

Dug it too. Apparently a bunch of stuff is stupid, religious and makes no sense.

I didn't care too much, it was a film that drew you in and really could get your pulse pumping all the while being a visual achievement in it's own regard.

I'm a big fan of Alien and was really disappointed in Prometheus -- if you examine the production of the film, it was basically gutted by excessive editing. Behavior didn't make sense / seemed stupid, lines of dialogue lost their power or seemed to just hang, etc. The film was rightly criticized extensively on the 'net from all the rational snafus in the film (which, um, otherwise actually was extremely beautiful in the visual sense).

I purchased the Bluray with 20 minutes of additional footage that had been cut from the film; it wasn't integrated into a "new cut," I had to watch the scenes separately, but it all did help to flesh things out a bit, and some of the issues no longer became an issue. Honing a scifi philosophical movie back to create more suspense and action isn't always the best idea, it can kill the dramatic narrative.

I have to say the main TRAILER for Prometheus was one of the best trailers I've even; I wish I could have just seen the trailer instead of the movie sometimes.

 

[not]

Prometheus... It was my most anticipated film since waiting for Matrix Reloaded, and my experience of watching it was similar to my experience of watching Reloaded... Cool, but not quite living up to my hopes and expectations. I so wanted to love Prometheus. I too watched every single cut scene to try to make sense of everything. The film did not work on a theatrical level, but even still, the philosophy of the film was still powerful, albeit nebulous.

@nanook will check out your list. But since we're going to be shamefully plugging stuff, you guys should watch this film: Don't Stop Believin' : Everyman's Journey. My friend made this film. It's a documentary about this poor humbled street singer in the Philippines who had one big fan that would tape his performances and put them on youtube. He's seen by the band Journey singing some of their songs. Journey is looking to go on tour and they are inspired by this near homeless man in a third world country and invite him to audition. It's quite a ride. Check out this youtube clip spontaneously recorded by a guy who caught the film on a plane. The film is not esoteric, but it does contain some powerful philosophical nuggets. It's now on netflix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VH3Qn7rmAU