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are INTPs long-winded?

bvanevery

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I certainly am. In text. 70 WPM, not afraid to use it to the hilt. Often produce vast tracts of personal thought, that various people on the internet would quickly ascribe to TL;DR territory.

I'm better in person. It has harmed me on dates in the past, so I've learned to watch out for any tendency of mine to ramble on or "information dump" on someone. You could say I've picked up some "social graces" survival skills over the years, because continuous ostracization for bad communication habits doesn't have fun endgames. Not that trying to make accomodation has done me all that much better. My actual social life tends towards face-to-face debate groups.

Long-winded examinations are certainly much more tolerated on INTPf than other places, although they're hardly unknown elsewhere. Long-windedness was certainly well known on historical Usenet newsgroups. That was all very much pre web 2.0, pre Twitter, pre cell phone texting. Pre populist internet for that matter. We remember the invasion of "AOL plebes", fighting over Nettiquete, etc. Usenet was historically closer to a monoculture.

Are INTPs long winded in general, or is it just me? Have you ever met a pithy INTP?

I tend to associate pithiness with 'S'.

I am fully capable of being succinct. I understand the purpose of business communication, or of disengaging from someone because they're wasting your time with long distractions. But my default mode is to examine at great length.
 

Tannhauser

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Writing lengthily has always been a problem for me. I don't think I ever reached the minimum-number-of-pages requirement in writing assignments at school. And after having studied math and computation I think I have acquired an even stronger predilection of precision and brevity of expression.

(and yeah, it's even worse in spoken conversation)
 

cheese

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I find it very difficult to curtail my length as well (ladies).

*just came back to edit in more words:
More than half my posts end up saved somewhere rather than posted because they're too long.
 

bvanevery

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And after having studied math and computation I think I have acquired an even stronger predilection of precision and brevity of expression.

Oddly enough I'm exactly the opposite in math and programming. I'm trying to design a programming language that fully embraces the pithy. I can't stand the amount of verbiage that mainstream industrial programming languages use. I can't stand it so much, that my so-called career is currently at a standstill, until I overcome this "how programming should be" problem. I can't get excited about labyrinthine expression with all the elegance and simplicity of the US tax code. Why not just become an accountant and kill myself now?

It's my writing side by which I flower to verbosity.

On my martial arts side I'd rather just kill someone. Not waste time. Wonder if that's related.

Taste in computer games: want to either do long, ponderous Turn Based Strategy games, where I think about every fucking move. Or else do First Person Shooters, where I think about nothing and just react. Can't stand Real Time Strategy games, where I'm expected to do a lot of complex and potentially weighty tasks, as fast as possible. My mind wants to think, my body wants to react (hand eye coordination). I DO NOT WANT to have to use my MIND to REACT.

Even though I'm probably actually capable of it, if I was put into a crisis where I strictly had to. I certainly don't seek it out. It's really stressful.
 

WhatWasThat

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I would say I tend to be either long-winded or no-winded, with not much middle ground in between. Texting and Twitter serve a purpose but they aren't really the place to have a well thought out and nuanced discussion/debate. When it comes to internet discussions I tend to prefer forums.

I can relate to being "better" in person about it. I'm sure I still bore some people with details they don't care about it but I try to pick up on their boredom. After all I wish they could pick up on my boredom when it comes to small talk. :p Obviously the ideal situation is just to have someone who cares as much about a topic as you do and you can just endlessly discuss it. I think that is part of the appeal of internet forums too. If you care enough about something to both sign up for a specific forum, and read/respond to a specific thread on that forum then you are probably fairly interested in that subject. You are basically filtering out a lot of the people who would be bored.

TLDR: Yep
 

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If something cannot be said succinctly I generally begin to doubt it is worth reading or saying myself. Length without content is torture and is indicative of a lack of thorough understanding, which doubles down on the feeling of pointlessness in the 'conversation.' There's a crucial difference between open, productive discourse and a lecture/attempted brainwashing. I understand that many people think aloud or formulate ideas as they write, but then again that's just more indication that the final idea is unrefined and often mere repetitious rambling that shouldn't be taken seriously. If you want to people to put in the effort to understand your ideas, you need to put in the effort to be cogent. Or you can whinge, I guess, just be sure to take deep breaths now and then.

Length that has precise content and coherent depth, or is evocative or humorous is valuable though.
 

bvanevery

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If something cannot be said succinctly I generally begin to doubt it is worth reading or saying myself.

And are you INTP? I've learend on this forum, I do have to ask. If "yes", how strongly expressed are you in various categories? Are you on the cusp of any of them?
 

redbaron

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Yes.
 

EggCustard

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I don't think I'm long winded. I often scroll past long posts. If that makes me an "S" so be it. I really can't stand long walls of words.
 

cheese

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I don't think I'm long winded. I often scroll past long posts. If that makes me an "S" so be it. I really can't stand long walls of words.

This gave me a bit of insight. I like long walls because I like reading. I read and type fast, so text-walls are both produced and digested easily. If they weren't I probably wouldn't do it as much because I'm fairly lazy, but it'd still happen a bit. I think there're probably two general camps when it comes to this (those who enjoy reading/writing for its own sake, and those who do it primarily to communicate).

Communicating clearly and efficiently does matter to me though. Paragraph breaks and lucid writing are essential. If I post something long, I've generally edited it for hours.
 

The Gopher

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I don't read long walls however I sometimes create them and yes... you guessed it. The speed it takes me to type them is the speed they are created at. I don't put much thought in.
 

Architect

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Usually.
 

bvanevery

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I read and type fast,

I read debates, web pages, and technical manuals fast. I find those pretty damn easy to parse all the information. Regular books though, I read slowly, whether fiction or non-fiction. But I can definitely digest giant arguments, because they are arguments.

I've always written fast, whether typing or pen and paper. I am more output oriented than input oriented.
 

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And are you INTP? I've learend on this forum, I do have to ask. If "yes", how strongly expressed are you in various categories? Are you on the cusp of any of them?

Yes, I am INTP. As for categories, are you talking about cognitive functions or i/e, n/s, t/f, and p/j? If the latter, I am strongly expressed in all categories, generally scoring 80% or higher. I usually would get a perfect preference for iNtuition and 95% for Thinking. It's been a long time since I've taken any of those tests. They're flawed and my interest in mbti has waned almost completely. You're better off analyzing cognitive functions than the n/s dichotomy.
 

bvanevery

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Yes, I am INTP. As for categories, are you talking about cognitive functions or i/e, n/s, t/f, and p/j? If the latter, I am strongly expressed in all categories, generally scoring 80% or higher.

The latter. Myself, I'm over-the-top N, strong T, strong P. Nearer the cusp of I, but definitely I, i.e. don't like having to exert myself to get to know strangers, don't enjoy parties where I don't know anyone, need to get away and recharge, need lots of alone time. I become pretty extroverted when I can actually talk about things of interest to me, things that feed my N view of the world.
 

baccheion

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I'm not generally long-winded, especially when I'm speaking. In writing, it's possible for me to go on and on, but generally I just say what I'm saying. It's easier for me to just write things out, then edit, so I don't limit myself too much, and it makes it so that I end up preferring to write rather than talk (that and being an introvert).
 

bvanevery

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I hypothesize that long windedness --> short pithiness varies with increasing degree of Introversion. And that the other variables aren't relevant.
 
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The quantity of words is more or less irrelevant.

It's the quality of it that matters and keeps a reader engaged.

The quality, as one perceives it, can be intuited or sensed rather quickly.

Better to say what one needs to using the least amount of words.

Narrow the possibilities of meaning down of what one wants to expresses.

People generally repress this manner of communication and say more than what they need to.

Anxious, ambiguous expressions.

An overuse of words, doesn't only confuse the reader, but also, the writer.

Shows a lack of processing, of simplifying.
 

air.ee.yell

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I find myself in the same boat as you except I'm teetering on the edge. I write lengthy messages and speak very little. But that's because I'm constantly aware of someone's boredom. For example, I can have this great and humorous concept of a lengthy story or joke. But as soon as I attempt to voice it, it comes out over simplified and there's no build up. Either that, or my build up is so lengthy that I forget about the punchline or the point and it doesn't excite my audience in the way I was excited because I'd created this seemingly awesome build up and then it goes flat. But with writing, I'm able to edit and reread and revise. So putting that into consideration, I also have a tendency to write out my thoughts in length but also get my point across.

My TL;DR is that I tend to be better at this in text or in writing than I am in person. I tend to have a lengthy text that makes sense and most times a lengthy speech that doesn't.
 

Midvar

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Either I am short and abrupt in my answers or give the usual long-winded speeches.
 

Happy

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The key is to keep them uninterested. Then you can just keep ranting to your heart's content :king-twitter:
 

redbaron

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Well it all started when I was 5. When I was 5 my uncle Steve used to say, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which at the time got me thinking about what I should be special at. I remembered at school this one girl Lucy...hang on, Lucy was in my grade 2 class, and I was 6, so it must have started when I was 6.

Okay so it all started when I was 6, I'm glad we got that sorted out. Now when I was 6 my uncle Steve used to say, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which at the time got me thinking about what I should be special at. I remembered at school this one girl Lucy just knew she was going to become a teacher and I thought, "she's so determined I bet she'll be a great teacher" but you see I didn't have anything I was really determined to become. So 6 year old me was sort of confused by my uncle Steve you see because he said, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron". But don't special people know what they want to be special at? At least that's what my uncle Steve would say, that's when I was 6.

So Lucy really wanted to be a teacher and she was pretty determined and my uncle Steve woulf often say to me, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which got me thinking about how special Lucy would probably be. Actually I think I was in grade 1 with Lucy, not 2. So I would have been 5 after all!

Okay so it all started when I was 5 after all. When I was 5 my uncle Steve would often say to me, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which at the time got me thinking about what I should be special at...
 

Jennywocky

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I tend to either summarize everything into a few key ideas, or I explain in great detail. it depends on whether it's a nuanced argument / needs the detail to build the case.

Worst feeling is when I think something was funny, but I have to explain the context in detail for people to see the humor... and as I ramble on, I see the look of horror and ennui build in the corners of their eyes...

Well it all started when I was 5. When I was 5 my uncle Steve used to say, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which at the time got me thinking about what I should be special at. I remembered at school this one girl Lucy...hang on, Lucy was in my grade 2 class, and I was 6, so it must have started when I was 6.

Okay so it all started when I was 6, I'm glad we got that sorted out. Now when I was 6 my uncle Steve used to say, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which at the time got me thinking about what I should be special at. I remembered at school this one girl Lucy just knew she was going to become a teacher and I thought, "she's so determined I bet she'll be a great teacher" but you see I didn't have anything I was really determined to become. So 6 year old me was sort of confused by my uncle Steve you see because he said, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron". But don't special people know what they want to be special at? At least that's what my uncle Steve would say, that's when I was 6.

So Lucy really wanted to be a teacher and she was pretty determined and my uncle Steve woulf often say to me, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which got me thinking about how special Lucy would probably be. Actually I think I was in grade 1 with Lucy, not 2. So I would have been 5 after all!

Okay so it all started when I was 5 after all. When I was 5 my uncle Steve would often say to me, "you're gonna be something special one day little redbaron" which at the time got me thinking about what I should be special at...

b88b94bd638eb016513cf7407c5e0bfb.jpg
 

CloudHidden

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Ok I was proud of that one ^ but I couldn't leave it at that.
I too think I get too long-winded because 1- I pretty much always have more interest in the details of a technical or abstract topic than does the listener and 2 - I feel like I have to explain every aspect of every detail, and qualify every statement. Run-on sentences and parenthetical statements are unavoidable.
I also relate to the comment about being aware of my audience's boredom, but instead of learning to be more concise my big brain apparently decided at an early age that the solution to this is just to talk really fast. Bad habit. I know it annoys people. Sometimes this makes me feel crappy. But then I remember that I'm super smart and they just need to realize the shit I'm saying is totally interesting, or I wouldn't be saying it, and if they don't then who cares what they think they're probably either shallow or stupid, or maybe we just don't have the same interests and they aren't nice enough to feign interest, which means they are an asshole.
Actually others should consider INTP friends as good testers of these qualities in other people. Shallow, rude and brainless people will not appreciate us, and anyone who does appreciate us, it can be said on that basis alone, has at least one good quality.
 

QuickTwist

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Ni user here. I try to say as much in as little as possible. This should be fairly obvious to most of you though.
 

gilliatt

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I think INTP's are real good people.
 

birdsnestfern

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Yes, I was too wordy. I got a regular scolding from one supervisor about how long my emails were at work, lol. I excelled in everything else, and over years I started to find ways to use fewer words in written format. In casual talking, not really, I don't think at the speed of speech, I do think at the speed of writing.

However, this works well on written tests and final exams. If the teacher asks everyone for essay format answers, I could scribble out three or four pages within five minutes while everyone else had barely a sentence down and get an A paper too. The extroverts can talk up a storm but can't write much at all.
 

LOGICZOMBIE

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I am fully capable of being succinct. I understand the purpose of business communication, or of disengaging from someone because they're wasting your time with long distractions. But my default mode is to examine at great length.

if someone shows interest, i'll go on for days

but generally i keep things brief


like, under two minutes

 

Old Things

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I can be extremely long-winded if I am talking about something I know something about, which isn't much, tbh.

My brother and I have this joke that I "talk around the lake" which goes back to when he and I would walk around a pond and it would take me about that long to get to the point I was making. I generally (in person) do not want to leave out any details I think could be key to understanding the topic, so I cover everything. But seldomly do people actually need that kind of detail.
 

sushi

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probably no, because i dislike that kind of people.
 
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