Flipping between the "J" and "P"

[FireRose]

Many people balieve that INTJs and INTPs are almost virtually the same, whether this is true or not, I do not know, however after taking the Myers Briggs time and time again, I have never come across a single time where I have been split between the J and P...that is until now.

Both the INTJ and the INTP have many (almost too many) things in common. This is why I might have been attracted to my friend (who is an ENFP, the match for an INTJ), and yet my "P" is still dominant over the "J". Orignially I thought my mother was also an INTJ, but she is not, just gifted but I'm not sure if she's in the top five. (Personality type dominance is shown below:
ESFJ: 12%
ESFP: 11%
ESTJ: 10%
ESTP: 10%
ISTJ: 8.5%
ISFJ: 7%
ENFP: 7%
ISTP: 6%
ISFP: 6%
ENTP: 4.5%
ENFJ: 4%
ENTJ: 4%
INTP: 2.5%
INFP: 2% (varying)
INTJ: 1.5%
INFJ: 1%)

In discovering all this I wondered whether there is a way to master alternating between the INTJ and the INTP. Both seem adaquate for engineering which i originally wanted to get in to, but my mother scared me off from it. (Now I am literally back where I started.)

Are any of you able to switch your personality types? Have any of you experienced a change? INXX?

 

[Jennywocky]

You're not really changing types, at best you're just changing tools you use to collect, process, and weigh information. You still have a preferred approach in there.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Many people balieve that INTJs and INTPs are almost virtually the same, whether this is true or not, I do not know

It is not. You can't master switching between two entirely different sets of functions either. You can of course learn from all types since they all have different strengths and weaknesses but that doesn't mean you switch types. MBTI doesn't allow for people to switch types.

If type-switching were to occur it would be the first letter that changed. You could sort of say that an INTJ whose in an outgoing mood has temporarily switched type to ENTJ because said INTJs behavior and even thinking may temporarily be more similar to an ENTJ than INTJ. The problem is you would then be comparing temporary behavior to average behavior over time, if an ENTJ were in an unusually outgoing mood said ENTJ would still be more outgoing than an INTJ in an outgoing mood. MBTI types aren't decided by temporary behavior and thinking, they are decided by behavioral and cognitive tendencies measured over a large timespan.

Switching between INTJ and INTP is out of the question though, even if you adjust the way types are defined so that temporary anomalies in behavior and thinking allow for switching between types that switch is impossible. You cannot simply learn to use an entirely different function stack, functions are but partly dictated by conscious thinking and actions, and that part exists because of underlying subconscious cognitive tendencies. You may change your behavior and thinking on a surface level but that doesn't mean you've changed the way your brain operates at large.

You have to understand functions on a more complex level than their stereotypical descriptions which are repeated everywhere to get this though.

 

[Frankie]

Nobody's type is 100% fixed. Each person has a unique character combination. I recently found that my P/J ratio is about 55:45.

 

[Jennywocky]

Nobody's type is 100% fixed. Each person has a unique character combination. I recently found that my P/J ratio is about 55:45.

If you're just going by the test scores, it's not even necessarily a comprehensive overview. It just means you happened to pick P answers over J answers in 55% of the questions (which might not actually cover 100% of potential J/P circumstances), and the questions themselves were binary whereas in real life they might not be and there could be some gradiation of decision versus a black/white decision made.

Complicate that by all behaviors being accessible by all people in any situation (versus exclusionary), and the reality is that behavior can be complex. We're just talking preferences with MBTI values, not even what one might necessarily choose in a given specific circumstance.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Nobody's type is 100% fixed. Each person has a unique character combination. I recently found that my P/J ratio is about 55:45.

I found out just now you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Frankie]

I found out just now you don't know what you're talking about.

That's very possible.

 

[QuickTwist]

They are not the same but they are similar. Both introverted NTs so there has to be SOME similarities right? I like to think of it like Righty tighty, lefty loosey... though I'm sure Absurdity would whole heartily disagree.

 

[Frankie]

If you're just going by the test scores, it's not even necessarily a comprehensive overview. It just means you happened to pick P answers over J answers in 55% of the questions (which might not actually cover 100% of potential J/P circumstances), and the questions themselves were binary whereas in real life they might not be and there could be some gradiation of decision versus a black/white decision made.

Complicate that by all behaviors being accessible by all people in any situation (versus exclusionary), and the reality is that behavior can be complex. We're just talking preferences with MBTI values, not even what one might necessarily choose in a given specific circumstance.

It was not a test the told me that. I read both profiles and intuitively came up with the ratio. It may be completely wrong, but I don't care so much about the facts.

 

[Jennywocky]

It was not a test the told me that. I read both profiles and intuitively came up with the ratio. It may be completely wrong, but I don't care so much about the facts.

...Oh, okay, so you just made up the percentages. Carry on!

 

[Cherry Cola]

it may be that what you've thought up isn't inaccurate, still it isn't really MBTI because it goes outside the MBTI framework

 

[Frankie]

...Oh, okay, so you just made up the percentages. Carry on!

Pretty much

So, CC, it's impossible to show two traits?

 

[QuickTwist]

Pretty much

So, CC, it's impossible to show two traits?

No its not impossible. The theory says it is, but shit, your not going by the theory anyways and its not like its math. You can have your own take on it and still be totally in line with the guidelines.

 

[Cherry Cola]

meh not in line with the guidelines but it can still be an acurate perception if how you work so long as it accurately describes the way you work, we dont know for sure yet, still most people who think that way are noobs so it doesnt quite bear well

 

[Frankie]

I like the fact that few things are known for sure. It makes me feel safe expressing my opinions from intuition rather than hard facts.

 

[Architect]

INTP's dominant Ti is a judging process, so it can lead INTP's to believe they are INTJ's. The important thing is whether you are an outward perceiver (INTP) or outward judger (INTJ), and inward judger (INTP) or inward perceiver (INTJ).

 

[QuickTwist]

So architect, If I'm hearing you correctly, your basically saying you can't have it both ways. Is that correct?

 

[Architect]

So architect, If I'm hearing you correctly, your basically saying you can't have it both ways. Is that correct?

You have to disambiguate between learned behaviors and overarching motivations. For example, from life circumstances I learned to keep a clean house*, which would indicate a judging preference. However I don't direct people, just want everybody do do their thing and leave me alone, and don't judge people or situations which indicates perceiving. From this you can see I'm an outward perceiver with some learned judging behaviors.

Likewise for other reasons you might meet an INTJ who is messy, or relaxed about other people, or other perceiving behaviors. This is what makes typing difficult, you have to see the underlying motivation from the behaviors, and the two contradict at times.

* I keep a clean house because I grew up in a overcrowded messy household, was personally a slob for too many years, paid a lot for this house and refuse to let it get trashed from being messy, and finally its where I do much of my work and I can't think in a mess (too many years working in clean work environments). So, a habit I learned because I've seen the benefits of being neat, but it doesn't mean I'm an outward judger.

 

[QuickTwist]

I noticed I act much more like a Te Dom in an interverted way where I am much more organized in the work place, but at home... not so much, I guess its a matter of adaption.

 

[Brontosaurie]

i can't picture an NT putting so much merit into some crude self-evaluation test as to find it significant that once when taking it, the result in one variable happens to turn out ambiguous. you're probably way off base in even thinking of yourself as either of those two types, which makes your little dilemma redundant.

 

[Pizzabeak]

What all this means is to look at the functions.

Intp being Ti and Intj being Ni
Ne Te
Si Fi
Fe Se


So you can see stereotypically and practically how they are similar but also way different at the same time. They're almost like inverts of each other.
So when you look at say Infp as well, it is - Fi, Ne, Si, Te - similar to Intp but pretty different. This is partly what they mean in regards to motivation.

So if you were to "switch types" you would also switch these functions. Sounds pretty interesting. This is one reason why you would see Intjs described as scientists, because their Se apparently gives them drive to produce some solid work (paired with the Te). Replace the Te-Fi with Fe-Ti and you get Infj, who are known for being more people oriented.

This is how the functions are connected. Look at another example, ENFP & ENFJ.
P is - Ne Fi Te Si
J is - Fe Ni Se Ti

whereas, say ISTJ (the exact opposite of "ENFP") is the exact 'reverse' - SiTeFiNe - so then you can see how ISTJ and INTJ are similar but different.

So in regards having Se in the inferior can probably result in binge eating to treat depression, but it can also result in exceptionally healthy or unhealthy eating habits as well as somewhat odd eating routines...

 

[TheZero]

Would it be possible to change type entirely, and forever, though emotional trauma? And if so, do you think it could be utilised in a controlled manor? I've liked the idea of pushing myself over the J line for a while now.

 

[Sockrates]

My S/N and P/J are relatively similar, S/N at 45-55 and P/J 40/60. I prefer structure over ambiguity, although I am able to adapt to any situation when needed. I like to look at numbers and then determine what they actually mean, or could mean if calculated and processed properly. Take your pick.

Being balanced is the goal, not being completely one or the other.

 

[Architect]

Would it be possible to change type entirely, and forever, though emotional trauma?

No! For the millionth time NO, your Type doesn't change!

Emotional trauma (or just life) definitely changes your behavior and perceptions however. You might start acting nominally like another type, but you aren't that type. People can tell too. My ISTP brother has several modes and I can tell when he's being authentic to himself, and not (usually when in Fe feeling mode - it's an inferior thing and not him, trying to act like a Mensch).

Same with me, I've told the story how I was a lead Architect leader once. All touchy feely too, went to classes on how to do it, learned it good. I had a candid conversation with a colleague recently who let me know it was obvious I was acting outside of my ken. In other words I sucked compared to the ones to whom it came naturally.

We can easily fool ourselves, others are more objective.

 

[Brontosaurie]

We can easily fool ourselves, others are more objective.

hence why you should accept others' reading of you as some form of IxTJ

 

[OrLevitate]

No! For the millionth time NO, your Type doesn't change!

Emotional trauma (or just life) definitely changes your behavior and perceptions however. You might start acting nominally like another type, but you aren't that type. People can tell too. My ISTP brother has several modes and I can tell when he's being authentic to himself, and not (usually when in Fe feeling mode - it's an inferior thing and not him, trying to act like a Mensch).

Same with me, I've told the story how I was a lead Architect leader once. All touchy feely too, went to classes on how to do it, learned it good. I had a candid conversation with a colleague recently who let me know it was obvious I was acting outside of my ken. In other words I sucked compared to the ones to whom it came naturally.

We can easily fool ourselves, others are more objective.

there's obviously something stopping you from doing some study on Jung's work.

You could realize that his system isn't final and that the complexity of every unique human experience does not actually fit into his system, and that it's actually a very heuristic aid. Or you could go through it, studying it enough to notice that it's lacking.

I imagine what's stopping you from either of these eventualities is your hardcore love for perceiving yourself as INTP. It solves a lot of self perception problems for you or something. But you're not at all an authority on the theory and you keep trying to come off as one.

You can start with these I guess to help you become enlightened wizard: Jung thought type is static. Reconcile "Emotional trauma (or just life) definitely changes your behavior and perceptions however. You might start acting nominally like another type, but you aren't that type." with a definition of 'type'. What is internalization, is it only about morals? How does the process occur? Can you be described as purely perspectival?