Here's your chance to spend my money.

[Architect]

I've got a conundrum. My kid has grown out of the simpler games into the sophisticated ones, and I'm enjoying playing with him. I've got a beefed Mac Pro and he has a mini. I need to get him a new computer, but like me he prefers OS X for most things (including games but reports, web, etc) and need Windows for the occasional game.

I'm not sure which direction I should go to set him up, make one of the choices above and if you have a new idea put it here, or other suggestions.

I'm personally partial to giving him the Mac Pro, but the problem is that it eats power like crazy. Really what he needs is a good graphics card, which is why a dedicated homebrew makes sense. However, that will entail about $1,300 which could be spent on a new Mac Pro for myself.

If we went dedicated box though I could do Eyefinity or the like for an awesome surround system.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

I'm partial to the home brew ( for a moment I thought you meant booze). Building your own PC has its rewards. You can also find some really great deals on parts.

 

[Brandon]

I'd go with something you put together. I think it's a much more flexible option for now and further down the road. Aside from the fun of building the computer and researching all your parts options, you will also get more performance and value for your dollar. I really loved my macbook pro but I feel there isn't much comparison when you're talking about which machine to choose for a dedicated gaming rig.

 

[Chad]

I think the home brew is the best way to go. However, this is only my opinion and there are other valuable reason you may wish to go a different direction. It's really all about how much work you want to put into it and what you want to get out of it in the end.

 

[Duxwing]

I've got a conundrum. My kid has grown out of the simpler games into the sophisticated ones, and I'm enjoying playing with him. I've got a beefed Mac Pro and he has a mini. I need to get him a new computer, but like me he prefers OS X for most things (including games but reports, web, etc) and need Windows for the occasional game.

I'm not sure which direction I should go to set him up, make one of the choices above and if you have a new idea put it here, or other suggestions.

I'm personally partial to giving him the Mac Pro, but the problem is that it eats power like crazy. Really what he needs is a good graphics card, which is why a dedicated homebrew makes sense. However, that will entail about $1,300 which could be spent on a new Mac Pro for myself.

If we went dedicated box though I could do Eyefinity or the like for an awesome surround system.

Ooooh! Computers! Fun!

My solution is expensive, but it will solve your problem impeccably, give your son and you a bonding experience, and save money in the long run.

The Goliath:

Physical Construction:
Step 1.) Buy a gigantic server tower with nothing in it.
Step 2.) Install a top-shelf motherboard that emphasizes expandability.
Step 3.) Cram in as many top-shelf GPU's, CPU's, and SSD's as the motherboard will fit.
Step 4.) Install a liquid cooling system of your choice.
Step 5.) Install the biggest PSU that you can find.
Step 6.) Download all your data to the Mainframe's SSD's, and dispose of all your old computers.
Step 7.) Run all necessary I/O cables from your current workstations to The Goliath.
Step 8.) Put the Goliath somewhere far away.

Software Construction:
Step 1.) Get as many licenses for OS X and Windows as you will need
Step 2.) Run all your family's computers as virtual machines within The Goliath.
Step 3.) Make yourself the admin.
Step 4.) Create a dynamic resource-sharing system that will prevent one user from hogging processing power while allowing lone users to use the entire Goliath's power when working alone.
Step 5.) Automate all back-end processes, like software updates.
Step 6.) Install an anti-virus befitting your machine.

Maintenance:
Step 1.) Allocate more money to electric bill.
Step 2.) Replace components when processing speed is too low.
Step 3.) Give it a good dusting once in a while.

Fun:
Step 1.) Leave your Goliath to Fold at Home overnight.
Step 2.) Declare the Goliath your kingdom (you could call it "Architectia") make Mrs. Architect your queen, and your son its prince. Get some crowns, robes, armor, and scepters and take a picture while sitting beside it and looking very regal.
Step 3.) If and when the Singularity arrives, buy yourself (I cringe as I think of 'buying' a sentient being) a strong AI and let it reside in the Goliath. Ask it to take care of your mundane tasks (taxes, bills, etc.) as its rent, and let it otherwise roam free.

-Duxwing

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Ooooh! Computers! Fun!

My solution is expensive, but it will solve your problem impeccably, give your son and you a bonding experience, and save money in the long run.

The Goliath:

Physical Construction:
Step 1.) Buy a gigantic server tower with nothing in it.
Step 2.) Install a top-shelf motherboard that emphasizes expandability.
Step 3.) Cram in as many top-shelf GPU's, CPU's, and SSD's as the motherboard will fit.
Step 4.) Install a liquid cooling system of your choice.
Step 5.) Install the biggest PSU that you can find.
Step 6.) Download all your data to the Mainframe's SSD's, and dispose of all your old computers.
Step 7.) Run all necessary I/O cables from your current workstations to The Goliath.
Step 8.) Put the Goliath somewhere far away.

Software Construction:
Step 1.) Get as many licenses for OS X and Windows as you will need
Step 2.) Run all your family's computers as virtual machines within The Goliath.
Step 3.) Make yourself the admin.
Step 4.) Create a dynamic resource-sharing system that will prevent one user from hogging processing power while allowing lone users to use the entire Goliath's power when working alone.
Step 5.) Automate all back-end processes, like software updates.
Step 6.) Install an anti-virus befitting your machine.

Maintenance:
Step 1.) Allocate more money to electric bill.
Step 2.) Replace components when processing speed is too low.
Step 3.) Give it a good dusting once in a while.

Fun:
Step 1.) Leave your Goliath to Fold at Home overnight.
Step 2.) Declare the Goliath your kingdom (you could call it "Architectia") make Mrs. Architect your queen, and your son its prince. Get some crowns, robes, armor, and scepters and take a picture while sitting beside it and looking very regal.
Step 3.) If and when the Singularity arrives, buy yourself (I cringe as I think of 'buying' a sentient being) a strong AI and let it reside in the Goliath. Ask it to take care of your mundane tasks (taxes, bills, etc.) as its rent, and let it otherwise roam free.

-Duxwing

And make sure not to blow it's head off! They just get very mad, very, very mad.. I have a feeling I am getting something mixed up here. I just can't put my finger in it .

 

[Mr Write]

I don't know, but there's a great up-to-date site for building gaming PC's:

Logical Increments

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Console or Homebuilt PC.


Identify his uses. A PC encompasses a console in many ways, so some things to consider in favor of consoles would be:

• Specific exclusive console games
• Online multiplayer / Social networking opportunities
• Specific features (e.g. PS3 had a Blu-ray reader, and free online compared to Xbox)

Of course a PC offers a wide range of functionality, and is able to be modified & upgraded.

 

[Architect]

Ooooh! Computers! Fun!

My solution is expensive, but it will solve your problem impeccably, give your son and you a bonding experience, and save money in the long run.

The Goliath:

Fucking-a that was beautiful.

 

[Coolydudey]

@Architect

Definitely a dedicated windows box- I built my first pc at about 14-15, had been researching it for a year. Very rewarding, and GREAT performance/price.

Something else: get him used to windows or Linux; you want him to be proficient with a versatile operating system when he grows up (Mac OS doesn't count).

 

[Architect]

@Architect

Definitely a dedicated windows box- I built my first pc at about 14-15, had been researching it for a year. Very rewarding, and GREAT performance/price.

Something else: get him used to windows or Linux; you want him to be proficient with a versatile operating system when he grows up (Mac OS doesn't count).

@Coolydudey don't want to get into an OS war but OS X is the only commercial UNIX that counts for anything. I cut my teeth on UNIX and wither when I use Windows for my day job, so I disagree with you on that one. I also have been in Linux since the .45 days. Anyhow he reguarly uses Windows, OS X, iOS and Chrome.

Yeah good advice about the homebrew, that is the best solution. Unfortunately it's also one of the more expensive. If I give him my MacPro then like I say I can save the money for a new one. Since it dual-boots it's no difference.

 

[Hawkeye]

By sticking with Mac, you are blowing money on mediocre spec masked in shiny nonsense - Macs were good in the 90's.

But if you're talking about laptops, anything you get is a waste of money imo.


You could easily build a fairly decent PC for less than $1,000 (if you're comparing it to a Macbook specs)

 

[Architect]

By sticking with Mac, you are blowing money on mediocre spec masked in shiny nonsense - Macs were good in the 90's.

But if you're talking about laptops, anything you get is a waste of money imo.


You could easily build a fairly decent PC for less than $1,000 (if you're comparing it to a Macbook specs)

Actually it's more complex than that. I'm not a fanboi, I have hardheaded reasons for using Macs.

• As a developer it's the only system under which I can run all three major operating systems - Windows, Linux and Mac. For cross compatability testing that is brilliant and one I use all the time, with Windows and Linux in VMWare. Having three computers would consume thrice as much money, space, and bother as I try to sync between them.
• Support - I can't afford downtime. My Mac Pro blew a sub board. I went down to the Apple store and it was fixed and back to me, for $150, in two days. This is flat out brilliant, and not possible with PC's unless you are a big business (I am not). However I need this level of care, and it's free (no yearly support contract) until I need to use it. And this is a four year old computer!
• Sys admin. My admin time for me and my family went to zero only when I went to OS X. Yes there are other issues with OS X, but setting up and maintaining computers isn't one of them.
• Cost. Yes you heard me. My Macs last longer, and have a tremendously higher resale value when I'm done with them (like 0% for a PC compared to 50% for a three year old Mac). And on new - spec for spec - Macs do well. Especially, surprisingly, on my Mac Pro. You ever spec out a Xeon server? I do for work. The low end Mac Pro actually is quite affordable in comparison.

You give up things of course - not software anymore, but there are fewer hardware options. Shrug ... it works for me.

 

[Coolydudey]

Archie,

Don't worry, it'd be irrational to start an OS war. It's just that I hate the restrictive nature of macs. As a note, I know quite a few INTPs who really think macs are great. They are. Just not for me. It depends on your priorities and way you use the computer.

 

[Cherry Cola]

The Homebrew is expensive initially, but games are cheaper on the PC, and if you're ok with it your son can download stuff illegally and save you even more money, if you're not ok with it then perhaps he can do it without you noticing; thereby, saving money anyway.

Also there's just so much more stuff available on the PC if you count it all, compared to a single console. Furthermore there'll be less of a discrepancy between the PC and the consoles graphics wise when the new generation of consoles reaches the shelves, meaning the current issue of ported games having dumbed down graphics to work on consoles will lessen for a while.

But then again not having the new xbox is gonna suck a bit on launch day.. but nah seriously da homebrew. Only alternative is Goliath imo.

 

[Duxwing]

Fucking-a that was beautiful.

Yay! Will you do it?

-Duxwing

 

[Hawkeye]

Actually it's more complex than that. I'm not a fanboi, I have hardheaded reasons for using Macs.

• As a developer it's the only system under which I can run all three major operating systems - Windows, Linux and Mac. For cross compatability testing that is brilliant and one I use all the time, with Windows and Linux in VMWare. Having three computers would consume thrice as much money, space, and bother as I try to sync between them.
• Support - I can't afford downtime. My Mac Pro blew a sub board. I went down to the Apple store and it was fixed and back to me, for $150, in two days. This is flat out brilliant, and not possible with PC's unless you are a big business (I am not). However I need this level of care, and it's free (no yearly support contract) until I need to use it. And this is a four year old computer!
• Sys admin. My admin time for me and my family went to zero only when I went to OS X. Yes there are other issues with OS X, but setting up and maintaining computers isn't one of them.
• Cost. Yes you heard me. My Macs last longer, and have a tremendously higher resale value when I'm done with them (like 0% for a PC compared to 50% for a three year old Mac). And on new - spec for spec - Macs do well. Especially, surprisingly, on my Mac Pro. You ever spec out a Xeon server? I do for work. The low end Mac Pro actually is quite affordable in comparison.

You give up things of course - not software anymore, but there are fewer hardware options. Shrug ... it works for me.

I suppose it does depend on what you are using it for. If you are using it for business purposes too then what you say makes sense.

Although, comparing Xeon server specs to a Macbook Pro doesn't. You wouldn't want a server spec machine for a general purpose computer; it's just not practical.

Also, your resale point is invalid as you have no plans to sell old parts, but rather keep them as museum pieces.

 

[Architect]

I suppose it does depend on what you are using it for. If you are using it for business purposes too then what you say makes sense.

Although, comparing Xeon server specs to a Macbook Pro doesn't. You wouldn't want a server spec machine for a general purpose computer; it's just not practical.

At work I use nothing but Xeon's, at home my 4 year old Nehalem Xeon outperforms a Ivy Bridge mobile, on a day-to-day workflow. In pure CPU like transcoding the IB is faster, but in general the Mac Pro wins. I'm not sure why this is but it probably has to do with the CPU stepping and dynamic throttling on the mobile side - the Xeon is always full bore so is there when you want it.

Also few people use Macs for business, their customer base and 80+ billion war chest came from consumers so they must be doing something right.

Also, your resale point is invalid as you have no plans to sell old parts, but rather keep them as museum pieces.

Yeah don't take that too literally, it only applies to hardware not worth selling

 

[Architect]

The Homebrew is expensive initially, but games are cheaper on the PC

And a lot still aren't on Mac, like Skyrim, Assassins Creed. But still I can run those on a dual boot Mac (though admittedly have been unable to get Win 7 to install onto a bootcamp drive on my latest laptop for some reason

Yay! Will you do it?

No.

 

[Etheri]

I'm certainly biased, but i'll voice my opinion anyways.

If you're buying a mac to game, you're paying overpriced.
I'm certain you know more about computers than I do, there's no point in arguing, but running a game through a windows partition is simply a waste of resources. Also, I personally think you should be able to get a decent PC that runs most games (albeit not all of them on highest settings) for 600 to 800$, less if you can get them without legitimate software. (Then you download all that stuff... *)


I'm a student, I'm not paying 13413$ for MS office and groupworks where people use MS office and others use google docs / openoffice is honestly more a hassle than just downloading MS office on TPB or whatever.

In all honesty, if you buy a mac you're paying for the OS. While I get that you might prefer it over windows, as soon as you get ingame it shouldn't make a diffrence. Ofcourse, a PC has more utilities than gaming. Personally, using a windows partition every time i wanted to play LoL or AoE2 aswell as many pirated games would piss me off more than it'd make up through convenience. Once you get used to it, windows 7 really isn't too bad. Just gotta configure it properly and throw out a few of the annoying options.

But again, in all fairness, I've used macs but I've never owned one. I don't think I ever had a PC worth more than 700€.
As to options : Build a PC or get a console with 2 controllers. If you wanna go crazy, get a 3D TV, the dual gaming options are amazing! ;D

Edit : In case of console, ask him which he prefers / which any of his friends have. Most friends I game with use PS3. Since you can't game cross console, it's obviously more fun if they all get the same console. Else he'll be asking you for a PS3 / Xbox / whatever comes up next not because he's bored of what he has, simply because his friends have it.

 

[Duxwing]

No.

Awww. At least you found beauty in what I wrote.

-Duxwing

 

[Meer]

Give him a budget and let him put together his own desktop. Building a PC is a good experience.

 

[Architect]

I'm certainly biased, but i'll voice my opinion anyways.

If you're buying a mac to game, you're paying overpriced.

Thanks - let me explain. It's kind of a complex equation, I wouldn't be buying a Mac to game, but the idea is that by buying a Mac we've got - for us - a more versatile computer that also can be used for gaming. If we got a dedicated rig that's all it would be for - gaming. Consoles are worse, I don't like the idea of a "computer" that can only be used for gaming. Additionally I've got too many computers running around, every new one takes up more space I don't really have.

You know the best thing is just for me to upgrade my mac pro - which I need to do anyhow. That'll cost $2.5k-$3.5k - split it and say $3k. Then my kid gets the old Mac Pro, and we both have new computers. But I didn't have to buy a dedicated PC which saves say $1500, so the "cost" of my new computer is really $3k-$1.5k=$1.5k, or better $1.5k for each of us to get a new computer.

If I spend $1.5k on the rig then he just gets a new windows computer, and his Mac games don't run any faster.

Too many details, hope that's clearer. At any rate I think I figured out that I should really just wait, upgrade my computer and give him the hand me down for the greatest utility for our money.

 

[Duxwing]

Thanks - let me explain. It's kind of a complex equation, I wouldn't be buying a Mac to game, but the idea is that by buying a Mac we've got - for us - a more versatile computer that also can be used for gaming. If we got a dedicated rig that's all it would be for - gaming. Consoles are worse, I don't like the idea of a "computer" that can only be used for gaming. Additionally I've got too many computers running around, every new one takes up more space I don't really have.

You know the best thing is just for me to upgrade my mac pro - which I need to do anyhow. That'll cost $2.5k-$3.5k - split it and say $3k. Then my kid gets the old Mac Pro, and we both have new computers. But I didn't have to buy a dedicated PC which saves say $1500, so the "cost" of my new computer is really $3k-$1.5k=$1.5k, or better $1.5k for each of us to get a new computer.

If I spend $1.5k on the rig then he just gets a new windows computer, and his Mac games don't run any faster.

Too many details, hope that's clearer. At any rate I think I figured out that I should really just wait, upgrade my computer and give him the hand me down for the greatest utility for our money.

How does the Goliath rate on price-to-utility? Although it provides no portability, its very powerful without being very expensive, and it takes up very little space while freeing up all the room that is currently occupied by lesser computers and provides a nice home for any rescued AI, somewhat like an animal shelter.

-Duxwing

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

You can build a decent (mid range) gaming windows box for around $600. I recycled some old parts of mine as well (screen, case, hard drive, ram). Use the best and latest i3 processor ($130) and a ~ $350 graphics card. I built one from my friend as a birthday present and it plays games pretty damn well when comparing it my $2000 beast. Though, only my graphics card is brand new (7970 ghz); and I am having driver issues.

---

i3 3240 $145 (2 physical cores, 4 logical)
MSI 7870 OC $229
Asus P8B75-M LX Motherboard $60
8GB ram $60
Antec 80 bronze rating psu $77
Harddrive 500 GB $50
Cooler Master: Elite 372 case $40

Total: $661

You can stick in cheaper parts and probably hit the $600 mark. Recycling parts is also an option. I am assuming that you already have ram, hard drive, copy of windows, screen, etc.

 

[Rocco]

In case going a bit over-budget is an option...

I would happily build and configure it for you for absolutely free, as long as I get to take credit for all of the records it sets.

 

[Duxwing]

Any progress, Archie?

-Duxwing

 

[Architect]

Any progress, Archie?

Still working on it. INTP in training wants to occupy his summer with Assassins Creed (which looks pretty cool actually) and LOTRO with me.

Now it's looking pretty clear that Apple is going to announce a Mac Pro replacement (probably a new line) in early June at WWDC. If they do then release will be later this year, and I'll probably want to get one. OTOH a dedicated gaming computer has a lot of advantages too.

So the long and short of it is that he can play on the Pro until WWDC when I decide if I'm getting a Pro++. If I do then he continues playing on the Pro and I get a new one eventually. If not then we look into a dedicated rig.

It entirely depends on how much love they (Apple) shows the professional market. If they're going all consumer with token professional machines then I'm heading toward the exit.

 

[Architect]

You can build a decent (mid range) gaming windows box for around $600. I recycled some old parts of mine as well (screen, case, hard drive, ram). Use the best and latest i3 processor ($130) and a ~ $350 graphics card. I built one from my friend as a birthday present and it plays games pretty damn well when comparing it my $2000 beast. Though, only my graphics card is brand new (7970 ghz); and I am having driver issues.

---

i3 3240 $145 (2 physical cores, 4 logical)
MSI 7870 OC $229
Asus P8B75-M LX Motherboard $60
8GB ram $60
Antec 80 bronze rating psu $77
Harddrive 500 GB $50
Cooler Master: Elite 372 case $40

Total: $661

You can stick in cheaper parts and probably hit the $600 mark. Recycling parts is also an option. I am assuming that you already have ram, hard drive, copy of windows, screen, etc.

That's an option, of course I've been cheaping out on his computer so far which is why I'm having to upgrade again. I think I'd rather just get something with legs.

 

[Duxwing]

Still working on it. INTP in training wants to occupy his summer with Assassins Creed (which looks pretty cool actually) and LOTRO with me.

I can just imagine a nostalgic country song about something like this...

Me and pa, we were real tight
Playing Lord of the Rings late into the night
And I'll never forget that glow of the screen
On the Apple he bought when I was seventeen!

*old-timey piano and guitar* Naaa naaaaa naaaaa...

Now it's looking pretty clear that Apple is going to announce a Mac Pro replacement (probably a new line) in early June at WWDC. If they do then release will be later this year, and I'll probably want to get one. OTOH a dedicated gaming computer has a lot of advantages too.

Build the Goliath, Archie. Build the Goliath.

So the long and short of it is that he can play on the Pro until WWDC when I decide if I'm getting a Pro++. If I do then he continues playing on the Pro and I get a new one eventually. If not then we look into a dedicated rig.

It entirely depends on how much love they (Apple) shows the professional market. If they're going all consumer with token professional machines then I'm heading toward the exit.

See previous advice.

-Duxwing

 

[Architect]

I can just imagine a nostalgic country song about something like this...

Me and pa, we were real tight
Playing Lord of the Rings late into the night
And I'll never forget that glow of the screen
On the Apple he bought when I was seventeen!

*old-timey piano and guitar* Naaa naaaaa naaaaa...

I know, it's pathetic, I keep telling him how easy he's got it. And my examples? Walking through the snow? No ... when I was a kid I didn't even HAVE a computer, and I had to timeshare in COLLEGE.

The horror.

Build the Goliath, Archie. Build the Goliath.

I'm crazy, not stupid.

 

[Duxwing]

I know, it's pathetic, I keep telling him how easy he's got it. And my examples? Walking through the snow? No ... when I was a kid I didn't even HAVE a computer, and I had to timeshare in COLLEGE.

The horror.

Oh, I didn't mean it that way at all. I was trying to make a joke about how your bonding experience with your son contrasts the tendency of the father and son stereotype in the US to contain references to pick-up trucks, fishing, and baseball. The "traditional" country song would go like this:

Me and my pa, we were real tight
Hitting home runs late into the night
And I'll never forget the rumble and roar
Of his '67 Chevy: all four doors!

*old-timey piano and guitar* Naaaa naaaaaa na, naaaaa naaaaaa na.

But why do you try to remind him that your youth was harder than his is?

I'm crazy, not stupid.

Hehehe!

-Duxwing

 

[Architect]

Oh, I didn't mean it that way at all. I was trying to make a joke about how your bonding experience with your son contrasts the tendency of the father and son stereotype in the US to contain references to pick-up trucks, fishing, and baseball. The "traditional" country song would go like this:

Me and my pa, we were real tight
Hitting home runs late into the night
And I'll never forget the rumble and roar
Of his '67 Chevy: all four doors!

*old-timey piano and guitar* Naaaa naaaaaa na, naaaaa naaaaaa na.

But why do you try to remind him that your youth was harder than his is?

Yeah I know, I was working the same vein. Instead of saying "I walked through the snow" I say "I only had 512k RAM".

Actually I do talk about how things used to be in computers. My generation happened to be one of the ones to see enormous change in computing. My kid takes it for granted.

 

[Duxwing]

Yeah I know, I was working the same vein. Instead of saying "I walked through the snow" I say "I only had 512k RAM".

What vein are we working in? I'm contrasting your relationship with your son to the that of the stereotype, while you're contrasting your youth with his. Are we working in the super-vein "Father and Son"?

Actually I do talk about how things used to be in computers. My generation happened to be one of the ones to see enormous change in computing. My kid takes it for granted.

Just like you took the Industrial Revolution for granted...?

-Duxwing

 

[Architect]

What vein are we working in? I'm contrasting your relationship with your son to the that of the stereotype, while you're contrasting your youth with his. Are we working in the super-vein "Father and Son"?

I think we're in violent agreement

 

[Duxwing]

I think we're in violent agreement

Ah, OK.

-Duxwing