The difference between having emotions and being a Feeler

[Architect]

Lenore Thompson (I plugged her book here recently) makes the distinction between having emotions and being a feeler (Fe/Fi) very well. Namely that as humans we all have feelings/emotions. But being a Feeler, say having a dominant/auxiliary Fe or Fi, means that you 'are' your emotional life to a different degree than a inferior Feeling type. Let me give an example (hopefully this post will have enough new material to pass the Cherry test) ...

My wife is an INFJ with an auxiliary Fe, I'm an INTP with an inferior Fe. At the moment she's rather depressed about her lack of friends. I'm in the same circumstances - we both have a couple of close friends, but not a wide circle like an ENFP we know who she is rather envious of. This friend has people dropping by all the time (nobody ever drops by here), her kids are loved by everybody (our INTP kid has - guess what - only a few close friends too) and is generally gregarious. Let's compare our reactions to this situation.

I recognize it for what it is - we're both IN's and are both types famous for not being able to handle a lot of friends. Both INFJ's and INTP's are well known for simply cultivating a few good friendships. I don't like people dropping in, or houseguests, and couldn't manage that many people in my life. As it is between family and work colleagues I have too many frankly. However, deep down, I'm probably bothered by it. Sure in some fantasy world I'd like to be having parties all the time, and if I let myself I'd wallow in self pity, but instead I take the hardcore rationalist approach and recognize the world, and ourselves, for what they are. I also know that if I let myself get wrapped up in it, I'd fall apart.

This is the experienced Fe inferior at work. He has a tempest of emotions, and doesn't exactly suppress them like a Vulcan, but is rather like a Vulcan in that the emotions are there but not given much energy. He's too busy rationalizing and theorizing to pay it much attention. He also knows himself, and with an immature Fe inferior that if he gives it any energy his feelings will boil over and explode. As it is they come out in immature ways, like getting teary at some soppy part of a Star Trek episode. But those moments feel good and "clean out the pistons" in his view.

Now the Feeler auxiliary, who is in a mini-depression over her lack of friends. Of course she has a few good close life long friends, who unfortunately live far away, but she keeps in regular contact with. She mulls over her feelings, talks about them (talking is a particularly important aspect of Fe/Fi, those functions are largely expressed through words), and spends much of her time (at the moment) obsessing about the matter. Until next week, when it'll be some other emotional turmoil she'll be endlessly discussing from morning until evening.

Here you see Fe auxiliary in action in the motivation to experience and "be" her emotions, and especially to talk through them time and again. Combined with a Ni narrow and deep possibility generator and you get a bit of a continual tempest. But she can handle it, whereas that kind of continual emotional turmoil would tear the Fe inferior INTP apart. In fact, not only can she handle it but seems to need it, if not thrive on it exactly. Whereas the INTP views such an emotional life as destructive, she seems to savor it, even if with a good deal of angst and turmoil.

This hopefully explains the difference between having emotions and being a Fe/Fi dominant, and perhaps explains why some INTP's can fall into a deep emotional hole (depressions and such). With an adolescent Fe, if we don't know better and fall into that world, we may not know how to control it and get out of a bad place. Discussion welcome ...

 

[Cherry Cola]

Nice, don't really have anything to add. I cracked up at this bit:

She mulls over her feelings, talks about them (talking is a particularly important aspect of Fe/Fi, those functions are largely expressed through words), and spends much of her time (at the moment) obsessing about the matter. Until next week, when it'll be some other emotional turmoil she'll be endlessly discussing from morning until evening.

Marriage

 

[TheManBeyond]

At the moment she's rather depressed about her lack of friends. I'm in the same circumstances - we both have a couple of close friends

I had the same problem with my ex gf. I sincerily didn't think i needed much more than her company to be happy but in her case it wasn't like that. She's without a doubt an ISFP or as second option INFJ. I feel like i relate more to your wife becuz i'm fucking obsessive with problems, i can be talking and thinking shit and spitting fire all day while my ex was much more explosive and in the moment. But obviously got her tired, she didn't have that endurance.
On the other hand, the friends thing got her really depressed, and i had to play the psycologist.

For me i feel like i'm crazy and people tell me this once a while, so it must be true, it's like there are days in which i'm full of energy and positive vibe and i'm really talkative and making jokes and everyone is laughting and i'm like the engine of the group. That's usually on mondays and thursdays then i gradually enter in the sitting there alone and quiet and even quite grumpy mode. My ex told me that she couldn't stand my mood, it was too weird to handle so much changes.
And it's true, my sociability comes in quick explosive dom Fe episodies where i totally kick everyone asses, i can become really dickhead and make fun of someone, use logic Ti and fuck another one in the ass in public and care a litte but then some phrase attacking in some way my emotions by some people involving other people puts me back into my normal mood.

I'm the baddass motherfucker and the shy sensitive ISFJ-INFP.
One day i feel like i can destroy human race and conquer uranus and next day i feel like i'm forsaken by the world. I can't tell if this is Fe or Fi or just some unhealthy shit.

 

[Architect]

Marriage

Yup. This insight (largely from Lenore) was a big help in our relationship. I came to realize that she needs to talk through her emotions just as I need to talk through (and think through) my theories. But she (Thompson) makes the point that Fe doesn't really exist, in a sense, separate from those vocalizations. So I used to be puzzled (and annoyed frankly) but all the hysterics and histrionics over one thing or another. Now I understand that's how she needs to work through this stuff.

Me? I have emotional turmoil too, but I don't have much of an ear for it. I can sense it down there but am too busy. Instead I'm focused on ideas and such. Such is the INTP-INFJ relationship ...

 

[Jennywocky]

^^ I have a pretty good Fe sense now, but my childhood was spent cultivating it (bad family situation, conservative faith environment, two of the other three people in the family and half my relatives being Fe aux), and then I had to actively absorb it in my marriage with an ISFJ. SO MUCH Fe. ARRRGGG. But I'm highly adaptable, so that's how I approached it.

The thing is that I don't like the emotional aspects of it, and my natural approach is to view it as a complex system -- that's how I consciously think of it and process situations, it's like a huge machine in my head and I can see all the ways that various interactions will play out and what will violate the norms versus contribute to them, etc. It's not really "instinctive" for me, instead I use my instinctive "systems orientation" to process it as a big pathing machine and thus choose accordingly based on the outcome I desire or at least can tolerate. It's hard for me to understand people who operate within it instinctively, as for me it's just a perspective that I can take or leave.

I don't need to talk through my emotions to figure them out. Usually any engagements I have with people to talk (about my ideas or feelings) involve me either wanting to provide some useful insight to them OR making a connection because I feel intrinsically lonely at some level and get tired of hearing my own voice -- it can be like living in a solipsist hell. Hearing something outside myself gives me a sense that the world exists outside me rather than just being completely arbitrary within my own mind, preventing me from going mad.

Getting back to the "lonely" thing -- it's been consternating in recent years. For probably the first thirty years of my life, I was happy to be "alone" but just wanted to know there were people out there who understood me. At my current stage, I actually am looking for more personal affirmation and want to invest in someone(s) special; it's like my needs changed with age and time. So I can still spend a week without talking to anyone outside of work and be happy in some ways, yet feel deeply alone and not in a good way at the same time. I'm not sure how to describe it.

I also identify with your comments here: "deep down, I'm probably bothered by it. Sure in some fantasy world I'd like to be having parties all the time, and if I let myself I'd wallow in self pity, but instead I take the hardcore rationalist approach and recognize the world, and ourselves, for what they are. I also know that if I let myself get wrapped up in it, I'd fall apart." That's what rather holds me together, the cold hard reality of it. Loneliness is actually part of the fabric of the universe to me and unavoidable, there will always be a gulf and the impracticalities of life put up walls and limit interactions. It's a cold embrace, but at least an embrace of sorts.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I have aux Fe. When I have emotions swirling inside I indulge in it through music or with friends. It connects me with the depth of being alive. I know I won't fall apart but instead use it as fuel and come out of it even stronger. I get philosophical and it gets transformed in poetry and other creative outlets. It also feeds my Ni and helps me connect and feeds the big picture of human systems. I think in many ways it helps bring me to Ni insights.

The one thing I don't like about it is I sometimes get dramatic but I guess thats the other side of the creative process.

 

[Architect]

The thing is that I don't like the emotional aspects of it, and my natural approach is to view it as a complex system -- that's how I consciously think of it and process situations, it's like a huge machine in my head and I can see all the ways that various interactions will play out and what will violate the norms versus contribute to them, etc. It's not really "instinctive" for me, instead I use my instinctive "systems orientation" to process it as a big pathing machine and thus choose accordingly based on the outcome I desire or at least can tolerate.

Well that's interesting. My approach (not intentional, just what it is) is to mostly ignore the emotions for the most part. When I was younger they'd explode on occasion, "anal-explosive" was a vogue psychological term at the time that my sister used on me. I think this is the traditional INTP approach and it lines up with the idea of it being in the inferior. As you say it must have been the work you did so that now you see them as being a system.

I'm also often unaware of my emotions, they make their way out through hunches. For example, I'll get a feeling about something (e.g. why I want or don't want to go somewhere) and it can take some time to figure out why it is I feel that way.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm also often unaware of my emotions, they make their way out through hunches. For example, I'll get a feeling about something (e.g. why I want or don't want to go somewhere) and it can take some time to figure out why it is I feel that way.

I think there are different types of emotions. I find a distinction in my "artistic emotions" versus my "real-life / practical emotions."

The former are kind of transcendent stirrings mixed with physical stimulation (basically, when I write prose or play music, I instinctively can sense the big picture patterns and their impact on the psyche and body and thus build patterns that generate particular emotional responses). Those things have always been pretty easy for me to perceive and manipulate -- kind of a real-life spellcaster.

The latter, though... I struggled so badly, in part because I tended to ignore my own emotions in other areas of life and/or discount them as important. So I wasn't really sure for a long time why I was angry or upset about something aside from some huge/gross description. The nuance and particulars took a lot of time to sort out, and I usually didn't bother unless I was forced into it by circumstance. I have the "hunch" thing too -- I realize I am strongly against something, but for a long time I wouldn't know why... so I would discount it, then be unhappy later. I have a pretty good idea of my main reasons for disliking something now, when I experience that; but the nuances tend to be generated through Ne brainstorming based on my life experience and then I pick "best fit" as most likely explanation.

I see the Fe stuff as impacting emotions but more as the social rules and relationships that can generate particular emotions depending on context. Some people fall within the bounds of those rules, others might not respond similarly but end up needing to understand those rules anyway to exist within the system.

 

[Reluctantly]

This really doesn't seem to elucidate how emotions are different from being a feeler. I got from your OP that feelers engross themselves in their feelings, talk about them, mull them over, etc. But how does that give them intelligence? What is their purpose in doing so? Because otherwise, I get the impression of a visceral person, yet nothing else.