Mental Health

[Magus]

How's your mental health INTPf?

I guess it's a personal question but I'm curious. INTPs by our nature are more attracted towards isolated lifestyles and I was wondering if this among other things like being preoccupied with trying to live in a way which is logically consistant and thus feeling alienated by both the bureaucratic and social aspects of society leads to higher instances of mental health problems.

Naturally many mental health disorders are largely genetic in their basis so plausibly might affect all types and lifestyle factors which are relevant, e.g. substance abuse are not monopolised by INTPs.

A little about me. The last few years have made it clear to me that I have some sort of depressive disorder. I've had several 'down' periods at which I dipped as low as planning and rationalising suicide. These periods typically were recurring and lasted 4-7 days and were punctuated by a general low for 4-6 weeks. Reading up on the different depressive disorders, I've come to the realisation that I have periods which might be described as hypomanic, usually peaking for 2-3 day periods clustered over a period of 2-3 weeks. Naturally this has made me curious as to whether I might have cyclothymia or even bipolar II. I never would have thought this possible before as I had in ignorance presumed manic episodes manifest themselves as periods of massive extroversion and eurphoria whereas (while they might take that form) they can take a variety of forms, for instance as frustration and brief periods of high activity or inspiration or 'energy bursts' several of which I've seen as patterns in my own behaviour. I'm planning on seeing a specialist at some point in the future when I can both afford it and be bothered to get a second opinion and perhaps even a diagnosis. Obviously self diagnosis of mental health issues is a bit iffy.

Does anyone else here have a diagnosed or suspected mood/personality disorder/mental health issue or have had in the past? Do you think some of them are naturally more common in INTPs, such as depressive and schizoid disorders? General mental health and the INTP discussion thread I guess.

 

[TimeAsylums]

I'm actually about to find out [via psychiatrist]

but I don't suspect it's good at all [it being mental health]

Suspect list:
(In no particular order)

Intrusive OCD
ADD
ODD
Bi-polar/mania
Oh, and some form of narcissism wouldn't surprise me, but eh

Oh, and ENTP, but I spend long weeks in solitude (isolation) sometimes. [cause I like it]

 

[Magus]

What do you mean? I don't know your situation, but perhaps being aware of yourself would put you in a better position to manage your life, surely this is a good thing?

 

[Cherry Cola]

Although I thankfully don't dip low enough to rationalize suicide I hear you on the mood swings. What you're describing is what I've been experiencing ever since I started an SSRI ( which was almost exactly a year ago, before I did that I had been genuinely depressed for a while).

For me hypomania expresses itself through:

-Me talking faster than usual
-Being physically restless
-Going on internet sprees where I post and read a ton, these last at least 8 hours
-Having difficulties falling asleep and then waking up after 4 hours anyway, luckily the need for sleep is diminished as well but at times I barely get to sleep for days, I then experience some kind of weird combination of hypomania and extreme fatigue, very unpleasant.
-Me being very social, I want to talk to people I need them to listen to my ideas about random stuff.
-Being disorganized and forgetting things (leaving the freezer open and the tap water running for instance).
-Being able to focus all my energy into accomplishing something and then ruthlessly working towards it in a burst, this is the big plus of hypomania
-Irritation and lack of patience, everything needs to happen now and fast.
-Euphoria, although it doesn't happen often, it happens more often than normal when I'm experiencing hypomania.

My sociability going up is just a small part of it, I'd say my social competence goes down anyway so I try not to act it out too much for risk of being annoying. I haven't gotten it diagnosed either, but trying to get some expert input on it, because all in all it's bloody exhausting having these swings. In my case it isn't all that acute, but what you're describing sounds more severe. How do your cycles look?

I'm in the hypomanic state for maybe 3-6 days, then I spend another 3-6 feeling normal, then I spend anywhere between a week to three going downwards slowly. The last day before I go back to being hypomanic is always the worst, anxiety is at its highest. When I start shifting from depressive hypomanic things go fast, I can feel it in my head and body takes about 2 hours all in all.
My mother and my brother were able to see this pattern when I was living with them as well. I got my aim set on cyclothymia, that's what seems to describe what I'm experiencing the best. But alas looking at wikipedia I'm gonna have to wait another year before I even qualify for the diagnosis:

"-For at least 2 years (1 year in children and adolescents), the presence of numerous periods with hypomanic symptoms and numerous periods with depressive symptoms that do not meet criteria for a Major Depressive Episode"

I'm a lucky sod to live in Sweden though, healthcare only costs about 135 dollars a year, after that it's free. Sounds awful having to dip as low as you do yet being unable to seek professional help because of the costs involved. My heart goes out to you!

 

[Jennywocky]

My guess is that you might see more depressive, anxiety, schizoid, and schizotypal disorders. (Obviously Histrionic doesn't seem to be a likely option for INTPs.)

I was officially diagnosed with depressive and anxiety issues a number of years back, after years of trying to fight through it myself. I spent some years on Wellbutrin to provide extra energy and take the edge off, while undergoing prolonged therapy that ended up empowering me and trusting my instincts to the degree where I was able to make changes to my life regardless of how the people around me responded.

I can't claim all my problems are over, but I'm no longer a passive fatalist, I am more proactive and taking a more healthy view of myself than I did.

There are many reasons for potential mood and psychiastric issues, so it's difficult to make a blanket statement. Also they don't necessarily occur in isolation; it's not uncommon to find a few issues arising in sync with each other, to reinforce the problems. Past coping mechanisms used can also interfere and need to be unlearned, as part of the healing process.

 

[Magus]

My hypomania is quite similar to yours, my thought process kind of jumps between things and is a bit haphazard, I don't sleep much (staying up for 3 nights at a time, with only a few hours sleep), and I tend to have a short attention span. Its kind of like a feeling of progress, I have to be on the way towards something, things have to come together, I can't just 'be.' I often get frustrated at things because I make my mind up on a whim and want to just follow that path, last year for instance I changed several subjects at university with only a few hours notice but then was just infuriated at the university bureaucracy because it wouldn't just let me switch (there were all these forms and stuff) so I ended up just dropping them. I wouldn't say I get a Napoleon complex, but I get this excellent self confidence and belief I can 'deal with the details later, I'll just make it work through force of will alone.' So I often have these brief phases, I'll take a nearly all-consuming interest in something before I kind of fizzle out or decide its not worth it (thankfully usually before I've actually done anything to speak of/made any serious commitments). Whatever it is, the plan is to do it in a big way, for example if I was going to start a business, its going to be a big deal, if I'm going to take up chess, I'm going to get an IM ranking, if I'm going to make a film with friends it's going to win Sundance. Thankfully however my ability to be impulsive is largely limited by my lack of money and the fact that peak mania doesn't usually last more than a week. If I actually had cash I'd be much more likely to blow it on things, e.g. outdoor camping equipment because I've decided to take up mountain climbing as a hobby or buy a sailing boat (have thought about both lol). Its kind of embarrassing to talk about, it outright sounds delusional, but the feeling kind of builds up gradually over a period of time without me noticing and before I know it I'm there. Socially I'm not necessarily 'out there' in everyone's faces but I'm not as reserved, I could deal with people well if I'm there because I want to be, but I'd have even less patience socially if I don't want to be there as its stopping me from doing whatever I'm thinking about at the time.

Its interesting to think as to how my mood has led me to where I am today. On one hand, when I get down, if I'm at the point where I'd literally rather die than do whatever I'm doing at the time then its obviously not a case of 'running it off' or 'taking a break,' and I self sabotage because as far as I'm concerned I might not be around for much longer and truly don't care, while when I'm up I might be boosted by a temporary overestimation as to whats possible and so break old commitments and make new ones on a whim which I almost definitely won't stick too.

I have a pretty low awareness of my mood to be honest, its not something I've consciously thought about until now (last week or so), I just kind of live through it and I'm only now noticing patterns. What actually got me thinking about it was my realisation that my down moods doesn't really follow the circumstances of my life that well, if that makes sense. When I'm down isn't necessarily when I should be down. And when I have reasons to be down I might not be. I kind of had the realisation that I could have all the success in the world and I'd still get suicidal. Knowing that my downs aren't normal I looked into that which made me aware for the first time of my ups haha.

I might see a university counsellor tomorrow, but I don't really know what to make of it. I obviously haven't been professionally diagnosed but so far its been like a little epiphany for me noticing a pattern in my mood. I don't really know what I'm going to do about it though, the idea of medication really puts me off and I don't know what I'm going to do about life generally since I've kind of dropped the ball with everything I had going on before.

 

[DIALECTIC]

How's your mental health INTPf?

I guess it's a personal question but I'm curious. INTPs by our nature are more attracted towards isolated lifestyles and I was wondering if this among other things like being preoccupied with trying to live in a way which is logically consistant and thus feeling alienated by both the bureaucratic and social aspects of society leads to higher instances of mental health problems.

Naturally many mental health disorders are largely genetic in their basis so plausibly might affect all types and lifestyle factors which are relevant, e.g. substance abuse are not monopolised by INTPs.

A little about me. The last few years have made it clear to me that I have some sort of depressive disorder. I've had several 'down' periods at which I dipped as low as planning and rationalising suicide. These periods typically were recurring and lasted 4-7 days and were punctuated by a general low for 4-6 weeks. Reading up on the different depressive disorders, I've come to the realisation that I have periods which might be described as hypomanic, usually peaking for 2-3 day periods clustered over a period of 2-3 weeks. Naturally this has made me curious as to whether I might have cyclothymia or even bipolar II. I never would have thought this possible before as I had in ignorance presumed manic episodes manifest themselves as periods of massive extroversion and eurphoria whereas (while they might take that form) they can take a variety of forms, for instance as frustration and brief periods of high activity or inspiration or 'energy bursts' several of which I've seen as patterns in my own behaviour. I'm planning on seeing a specialist at some point in the future when I can both afford it and be bothered to get a second opinion and perhaps even a diagnosis. Obviously self diagnosis of mental health issues is a bit iffy.

Does anyone else here have a diagnosed or suspected mood/personality disorder/mental health issue or have had in the past? Do you think some of them are naturally more common in INTPs, such as depressive and schizoid disorders? General mental health and the INTP discussion thread I guess.

I was diagnosed with cyclothimia / bipolar type 2 three years ago after coming out from a very long existencial crisis.
I dont take medications for it despite being prescribed mood stabilizer but i do make sure i follow a strict diet, have 6 to 8 hours sleep every night, go to the gym nearly every day, meditate twice a day, stay away from conflicts and negative people, dont drink or take drugs (anymore).

However to be honest i learnt more about myself during the depressive phases...

 

[ZenRaiden]

Long term depression, mood swings, abnormal thinking patterns like OCD or something, memory and cocentration a bit bad ( used to be better), no friends which is btw how I like it ( they always get on my nerv), hard to keep track of my thoughts sometimes, currently have no job or do not want one, I think that is a bad trajectory, but it does not bother me on some level, I want to write a philosophical book yet I have no training in logic or have any idea why (kind of always wanted to It feels like I can change the world or something)[I know that is not normal, but what the hell, one book wont hurt], I have this urge to paint on the wall( I do not, but still would do so if I could), also had a period that sort of resembled hypomaniac. Lately I started believing in God. Dunno where that came from, but I am pretty certain he does exist. Its a principal thing, do not remember how I arrived to this conclusion. I always know God is watching since I was 7 years old, I pretty sure I am surveillanced by entities etc. do not really care, but I know about them since I feel them,
I got bit psychotic this year, which is basically probably just realizing and reflecting on my life, ........ah f**k it....

 

[B.C.P.]

Magus, do you think your bursts of effort are caused by outside expectations or by your own expectations?

I'm an INTP and I struggle with these three things at the moment:

1) Engaging a project with intense effort, missing a day and feeling a building sense of guilt that leads to depression. I have built a belief over time that my inconsistency will always keep me from finishing a project that I start because I will lose my interest in, and abandon, the project before it gets finished.
2) Being in a state of extreme introversion where I don't want to be around anyone. I learn and accumulate ideas and theories. These spans of time, typically 3-4 days long, feel great, but after about a week I want to express the thoughts and experiences I've had. But I think that suddenly using my extraverted functions would be logically inconsistent. I want to speak but I can't. The second part of this is spending time with a group of people I get along with. I become a chatty extravert, but always in the back of my mind I feel guilty, like I'm being someone I'm not. I don't handle the transition between using my introverted and extraverted functions very well.
3) Feeling that I'll never be able to find someone who can deal with someone as quiet and as cold as I am. I feel guilty for being that way at times because, as far as I can tell, my Fe is developed enough that I am aware and afraid of what others feel, and this awareness tells me that I am disappointing them. Too bad my Fe isn't developed enough to overpower my introverted functions to make me more outgoing.

Another thing is that I lack empathy, but I don't struggle with this, I just recognize it's a peculiarity. The thing is, I don't have empathy for others because for the most part I think that they want empathy over things that are not worth the emotional response they give it. Besides that, I think I can help them more by "being tough" in the hope that they will be able to gather that strength from me.

I don't think any of these things are mental disorders, just behavioral difficulties. I don't know what kinds of tests they do to diagnose mental illnesses like bipolar disorder, hypomania, etc. but I have a feeling that if they aren't physiological, an INTP could easily be diagnosed with a test that is geared to pick up on signs reinforced by an INTP's psyche.

 

[Hadoblado]

- depression
- anxiety
- anger
- massive attention issues

 

[B.C.P.]

Attention issues? Do you mean with receiving attention or giving it?

 

[Cherry Cola]

Maybe he means issues with attention as in attention span; retaining concentration, focusing, etc?

Such issues are a common side effect if you're depressed I hear. I wish you the best Hadoblado, you seem like a smart, nice and fairly handsome guy you'll do good I'm sure.

 

[DelusiveNinja]

Hypomania/Depression
Anxiety - It's not that bad but sometimes I'll think of the possible things that could go wrong with doing everyday things like taking out the trash or driving to the store and after that thought is in my head I will refute doing it and when someone attempts to force me I'll get angry and start arguing.

 

[kvothe27]

-anxiety
-depression
-inattention

I spend and have spent a great deal of my time regulating my anxiety levels via exercise, medication, meditation, supplementation, and therapy. A high level of anxiety often results in depression. This results in problems with motivation, focus, and isolating behaviors. This increases my anxiety level. And so the downward cycle goes . . .

Sometimes I just lose it. There have been times when I would just start laughing maniacally because my other strategies of providing a release for all the tension no longer worked. Then there were the times when medications would make me worse or insane. Another time I couldn't even order my mind in any rational way. Normal ways of categorization were lost and my thoughts became lost in a sea of nonsense. Another time I would have repeating panic attacks -- my heart pounding, feeling like I'm going to have a heart attack, everything closing in, and everyone appearing to be my enemy.

It has been interesting to see who cuts me off as though I'm a bad limb when I implode like that.

 

[Hadoblado]

Yeah BCP, inattention is what I should have said (ty Kvothe for the leg up )

Cheers Cherry, wait what do you mean 'fairly'?

I'm actually working on a few little models of attention and depression, but I really should get around to reviewing the literature. Could save a lot of time.

@Kvothe
While cutting you off is a behaviour that tells you something about them, I wouldn't read too much into it. They have not transcended the notion that your well-being is as important as theirs, but you probably already knew this. Being there for people can be incredibly draining, it's no surprise that people don't drop what they're doing to help you. Particularly if you're cold/stand-offish (inferred from avatar and depression).

 

[Beat Mango]

Diagnosed anxiety disorder. May as well add social anxiety too. Causes significant suffering.

 

[Magus]

Magus, do you think your bursts of effort are caused by outside expectations or by your own expectations?

Um honestly it would be impossible to say. I think possibly a bit of both, all I can seem to pin my finger down on is that it is generally accompanied by some sort of mood swing, so thats why I started looking at bipolar types and mood disorders generally.

1) Engaging a project with intense effort, missing a day and feeling a building sense of guilt that leads to depression. I have built a belief over time that my inconsistency will always keep me from finishing a project that I start because I will lose my interest in, and abandon, the project before it gets finished.
2) Being in a state of extreme introversion where I don't want to be around anyone. I learn and accumulate ideas and theories. These spans of time, typically 3-4 days long, feel great, but after about a week I want to express the thoughts and experiences I've had. But I think that suddenly using my extraverted functions would be logically inconsistent. I want to speak but I can't. The second part of this is spending time with a group of people I get along with. I become a chatty extravert, but always in the back of my mind I feel guilty, like I'm being someone I'm not. I don't handle the transition between using my introverted and extraverted functions very well.

These both describe me very well. As you say later, they might be indicative merely of INTP "symptoms" albeit in an extreme display, or a mood/personality disorder and various other mental health issues and its hard to tell which. The limits of language I guess.

 

[Reluctantly]

I was diagnosed with bipolar and considered borderline when I was younger. I think I wanted a lot more freedom to be happy, explore, and have fun and that was my way to fight against how micromanaged life can be when dictated by the demands of culture/work. I also wanted to have healthy relationships with people (which seems like a commodity).

Then I stopped caring because it's crazy to begin with. I'm probably a schizoid now. I kind of like it though, so I'm not sure it's a mental illness. I also tend to be a circumstancial psychopath now, but maybe everyone is.

I suppose you're young then, if you are following the basic pattern of my youth.

 

[JimJambones]

I seem to be rather mentally healthy. These is not to imply that I am not physically healthy, although I could afford to be more fit, but at least I'm at a healthy weight and I'm not impaired or anything. Well I do need to have surgery soon, but it is certainly not anything to be worried about! But mentally, I seem rather fine. I have my issues, sure, but if anything I suffer from becoming irritable under stress. Excessive irritability can cause me to regrettably lash out in anger sometimes, which I am working on. Most of this I attribute to a lack of adequate sleep and a stressful working environment.

 

[crippli]

On the central(the other INTP place) they banned me cause I upset people + mental health issues etc. But the thing is that it usually turns out that I am right, what I notice is not imagined. I've never seriously doubted my own sanity, not over a long period. In fact my last psych told my I was very rational and sane. That felt good. I also tell people who accuse me of mental illness that they should see a professional, because I have it from authority that it is not me that is mentally ill.

 

[kaelum]

Haha, this is my second post, so I suppose this is a weird place to introduce oneself---well *shrugs*

I don't think my sanity has ever been questioned. The worst criticism I'd get would be that I'm weird, which I agree with. Hmm, I'm also a loner, but I still like people's company (once in awhile) so I can't call myself a schizoid, but if I had to label myself, I'd say I'm a person with avoidant tendencies ("avoidant" is a cluster C personality disorder). And I've had two periods of my life where I probably could have been diagnosed with depressed episodes.

Psychology really interests me, which is probably why I posted here.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't fully read the OP. Nope, I'm not diagnosed with anything, no family history or drugs.

 

[WALKYRIA]

INTP's, please don't believe that u're the only type gifted with mental insanity.
I have found that the more I try to enter the social/societal mascarade- this mind numbing game- I have seen my mental sanity vanish. My conclusion is that the more you want to be part of that game, the more you'll lose control on your mental state. That is why everybody that is part of the society(goes to work, has a boss, has responsibilities, stress,...etc), money wise, social status wise, ... is at risk to become mentally ill(because of the society he is in !).
My guess is that besides the genetic factors for mental illnesses, environmental factors(induced by society !) play an even more preponderant role in mental illnesses since we entered the stress era.( People in Africa or in certain parts of Asia certainly know what's war or poverty, but ignore what is stress or depression. )

U might note that INTP's are more at risk for mental disorders because of their lack of coping skills, lack of flexibility towards certain situation and low threshold/ resistance to stress.

Mental illness has just become banal in the west. Every normal person has a shrink. Even the shrink sees another shrink.

The first conclusion is that the nature of our modern society and it's by products(modernization, fast pace technological progress, loss of empathy, loss of humanity, competitiveness in all areas ) is slowly but surely killing us, thus driving us all crazy,...etc

My second conclusion is that the society is naturally selecting/favoring the wrong people( STJ's mainly and then eventually NTJ), thus the strong goal oriented / commited people.

My third conclusion is that, although such a society grows in a fast pace, it won't take long before it collapses.

My fourth conclusion is that if you don't want to be affected by mental illness induced by our society, than you must not completely participate in the society game ... become independent financially, get what you can get from society, and live along.

 

[rushgirl2112]

Varying degrees of depression starting when I was a child, formally diagnosed as a teen when it was fairly severe, postpartum depression after I had my second child, and diagnosed with Bipolar II shortly thereafter in my mid-30s. Anxiety which may or may not be related to the bipolar.

Bipolar has a strong genetic component - my grandmother had it, my father and his sister (two out of four kids) had it, at least one cousin has it, I have it, and both my other sisters have depression and other issues. So I was likely to get it regardless of personality type.

However, I can say with certainty that my personality has contributed to my mood problems. Especially being a female INTP going against gender stereotypes. My parents are religious and traditional, of the don't-question-things variety, and an INTP is obviously going to be unhappy in that kind of stifling environment. I've spent an awful lot of my life thinking there was something wrong with me for not being soft, gentle, and patient like women were supposed to be.

I was a huge outcast in school too. I didn't think like others, I didn't just accept what I was told, and - dang, this is going to sound egotistical - I was too smart for my own good. So I was bullied, and that definitely led to major depression and suicidal thoughts. That trauma has pretty much affected me permanently.

So I'm guessing a combination of genetics, personality, and environment.

My INFJ husband, a brilliant man who has schizophrenia and a history of substance abuse, had hauntingly similar experiences. I have a theory that all INxx's may be more prone to mental problems caused by feelings of not belonging, not being in touch with the rest of the world, etc.

 

[NoID10ts]

After several months of intense suicidal thoughts and self-injury, I've recently started seeing a psychiatrist. I thought it might be Bipolar II, I have short lived highs, but the doctor suggested it might be dysthymia. That seems right. Depression has never completely crippled me, but I don't ever remember a time when I wasn't depressed. That's a tell-tale sign of dysthymia. My whole life, I've felt pursued by darkness. I'm almost 40 and just now realizing that I have no idea what it means to feel normal. I've done the med thing before, but I'm trying it again.

I've noticed that a disproportionate number of people on this forum seem to have various mood and personality disorders. I wonder how that affects MBTI reads and whether those reads are accurate with these disorders in play. My psychiatrist doesn't seem to put much stock in MBTI. When I mentioned it, she wanted to know what that was and when I clarified, she just said, "oh right, the letters." My previous counselor acted like it was the key to everything.

 

[Minuend]

On, off depression for an estimate of 15 years.

Difficulty concentrating to the degree that I've attempted 4 different degrees at uni and ended up failing within the first year. Though, the first attempt I managed two years with terrible grades.

I have constant brainfog and apparently some difficulty with working memory. This difficulty escalates unreasonably with the tiniest amount of stress.

Used to have generalized anxiety, where I felt anxiety all the time. It went away after meds and haven't really come back except for a few episodes that might have been because of med abstinence.

Lately I have had drastic mood swings, where one minute I can feel somewhat hopeful about my future and then fall into despair. It might be something lingering from meds as well. Serotonin levels fluctuating.

Currently unemployed, which is kinda dragging me down. Not particularly motivated to work in retail or any of the mindless things you can do without a degree. Though, I know it's possible to find enjoyment, it's just a matter of perspective. I just don't want to work where I have to talk to customers. I'm tired.

 

[Polaris]

Depression and anxiety since I was very little. I can remember sitting by the window for hours at a very young age feeling paralyzed; the sun was shining, everything was beautiful --- and utterly meaningless. It was an astounding realisation.

I tried therapy, no good. One therapist said I was "impenetrable". I didn't even understand what she meant. I think I understand now. I tried medications of various kinds, I'm on a different one now which is messing with me a little bit. I have lost focus and motivation. I wake up at 3 AM every morning with this horrible feeling; everything is alien.

Also, anger. Angry at everything.

I think I may try to get off the medications to see if it makes a difference.

I am my own life-long experiment.

 

[Jennywocky]

Does anyone else here have a diagnosed or suspected mood/personality disorder/mental health issue or have had in the past? Do you think some of them are naturally more common in INTPs, such as depressive and schizoid disorders? General mental health and the INTP discussion thread I guess.

I was diagnosed and treated for both anxiety and depression for a number of years, although I never officially went to a doctor or therapist about it until my 30's; I hadn't seen the point.

Before then, I just toughed it out via force of will and my spiritual views at the time. My views did change drastically over the years, but I still do have an intrinsic "bittersweet" view of the world, leaving it an amalgam of joy and pain, love and sorrow, so I don't think I'll be free of it. I accept the dark with the light; the problem was more the meaninglessness and uselessness, with hinders productivity and engaging life. That part I had wanted to fix, and to some degree I have even though I can still be rather aimless. (That part was resolved by fixing situational factors that were trapping and squelching me.)

Listening to my INTP kid as he continues with his first year of college (and in fact listening to him earlier in life) is like listening to a broken record. It's funny how we both end up with the same kind of view / frustrations with the world, without coordinating our thoughts first. "Meaninglessness" is definitely one of those concepts, and he's struggling with the idea of trying to pick a major and set a fulfilling life direction and ending up doing something he hates or is unfulfilled by for the rest of his years just to "spend the time" and support himself; life "should be more," you can hear it in his voice. He wants to find meaning, but nothing satisfies him on a deep level, and he sees that inherent meaning likely doesn't exist.

(It took me a long time to accept that meaning can be constructed, but the mere construction of it of course still means it is not intrinsic, and that was "as good as it gets." Is constructed meaning false or worthless? I guess that's the question here.)

All that being said, in a thread entitled "mental health," I think despite the fact many here grapple with darkness and meaninglessness regularly, which can seem to create certain weaknesses, at the same time there is an embrace and understanding of reality rather than being trapped in a web of well-meant deceit. Mental illness seems to me to be a misperception of reality, and clarity comes through seeing and embracing reality as it is. So someone to me can "look" much better on the surface and stable but actually be more off-kilter and confused than someone who grapples with shadow.

After several months of intense suicidal thoughts and self-injury, I've recently started seeing a psychiatrist. I thought it might be Bipolar II, I have short lived highs, but the doctor suggested it might be dysthymia. That seems right. Depression has never completely crippled me, but I don't ever remember a time when I wasn't depressed. That's a tell-tale sign of dysthymia. My whole life, I've felt pursued by darkness. I'm almost 40 and just now realizing that I have no idea what it means to feel normal. I've done the med thing before, but I'm trying it again.

I'm sorry to hear that. Then again, I can identify with it. I've wrestled with a few things (although I had severe bouts of depression that were also situational), and I don't know if I'll ever know what "normal" is... if having a sense of "normal" matters. And depression colors everything, saps strength, removes motivation, etc., even while it might also contribute particular life insights.

Meds can be such a crapshoot, among individuals and particulars of one's case. I hope you find some relief.

I've noticed that a disproportionate number of people on this forum seem to have various mood and personality disorders. I wonder how that affects MBTI reads and whether those reads are accurate with these disorders in play. My psychiatrist doesn't seem to put much stock in MBTI. When I mentioned it, she wanted to know what that was and when I clarified, she just said, "oh right, the letters." My previous counselor acted like it was the key to everything.

Especially with people who don't fit into clean categories, I typically now just see particular type systems as lenses through which to view people for the purpose of pragmatic insight. One system might shed some useful light for one individual in a given situation, but another lens might be more useful elsewhere. Part of it as you've suggested is the multiplicity of influence on an individual's thinking and behavior. Multiple factors can be impacted by one trait, and multiple traits can also contribute to a single particular factor. Since there is no one-to-one ratio and everything contributes to what amounts to shifting scales (where the scales are defined by the particular framework being used and change from framework to framework), well...

Depression's one thing that can stem from multiple influences, which makes it difficult to treat especially with a singular response, a number of things might need to be changed.

Depression and anxiety since I was very little. I can remember sitting by the window for hours at a very young age feeling paralyzed; the sun was shining, everything was beautiful --- and utterly meaningless. It was an astounding realisation.

I think the juxtaposition of darkness and light makes it even more profound a realization. I have had the same experience, even as an adult, where I can recognize that the world itself is aesthetically beautiful around me but inside I am ash.

...I am my own life-long experiment.

yes.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Besides being possibly eligible for ADHD-PI, I don't think think my mental health is anything critical.

The schizoid descriptions resonate such as social non-participation, indifference, avoidance/shyness etc but it's partly a personal choice of lifestyle, and I consider it an aspect of my personality. So I'm not too quick to call it a problem, not that I wouldn't like to get rid of the negatives.