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depression is balls :( dnt like it.

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I suffer from a condition known as dysthymia. Means I'm pretty much always mildly depressed at any given time, suicidal thoughts are pretty much always in the back of my mind.
the double down. The double down sucks, it is where on top of the normal dysthymic mindset, you actually get depressed properly and it sucks. I am currently on a double down binge that has lasted the last 2-3 weeks.

I believe it was brought on by struggling school work. the depression worsened itself because by nature of depression, I didn't want to lift a finger to help my situation, which made the situation ever worse.
 
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ProxyAmenRa

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You just have to let go of what ever crap that is holding you down. You know what it is. You need to make the choice that it will no longer form a core component of your identity.
 
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is that an unrelated suggestion or is that what the saying mean?
 
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good advice thats hard to apply. mine is a nature that watches a situation spiral downhil and stands and does nothing to stop it.
 
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I hate how correct you are. I know you're right yet here I am procrastinating on INTPf when I should be in class. also am drinking beer and not working on my report.
 

ProxyAmenRa

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Don't worry. A great many of us have once been in your position.
 
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I wouldn't worry, except that my report is due on monday and I'd be hard pressed to have it finished even if I started working on it right away.
 

Milo

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In the metacognitive, beliefs you have about yourself are true because you believe them.

Try believing that everything is going great. And yes, there's a difference between just saying it in your head and believing it.
 
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fuck fuck fuck. your right again. get to fucking work says me. this advice is wonderful but difficult as all hell to apply.
 

Milo

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The more you practice self-managing your own moods, the better you get at it.

The hard part is realizing you have the ability, the second-hardest is remembering you have it after something happens in the world that takes you by surprise and upsets you. It's the classic see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil monkeys that had it right all along.
 
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seems like a stupid question but in the uncertain unfamiliar territory i find myself in right now (my intp feels). from a black and white do this then this then that point of view, what do I do right now to get my ass back into work. (god I sound moronic right now. like a child asking a stranger what to do, as if that stranger were all knowing and wise. nontheless, I see the musing scenario as potentially helpful)
 

Milo

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If you can remember the way you felt when working on something with determination before, you can try accessing that feeling. If I had to name this feeling, it would be "seriousness."

When you think too far into the future about things such as how long something will take to complete and what someone else might say about your work, you become distracted and overly perfectionistic to the point of it being counterproductive. Just thinking about what you have to do here and now while tuning in to your determined/serious mood should do the trick.

Just, when you have finished, remember that you can change it, or you might become a mad scientist who can't stop learning and working on new things. Think of your brain in an MRI scan, different parts are lighting up when you access this dimension of your mind.
 
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Thats actually really helpful, thanks. ill wait for my mood to raise a little (hopeless case whilst crying and drinking) then I shall try that.

edit: I'm not a feels I promise. First time this intp has cried this year.
 

just george

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Here's an interesting thought.

There is a scientist (I forget his name) who says that the human body is electric, and moving through time. The human body has thoughts that usually precede actions. Therefore, from the perspective of time, the human body is polar, in that thought is one pole, and consequence the other pole.

His theory is that the destiny of the human body, therefore, may be led in the same way we control, say, a ceiling fan - by pointing the polarity where we want it to go.

The way to do that is through the use of affirmations, whereby you write out a list of why everything is going to be okay and read it frequently.

Anyway, it's the best scientific explanation of spiritual teachings that I have ever heard - perfect for INTPs :) (even though I am not an INTP, and still can't understand the deck of cards thread :kodama1: )
 

Minuend

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Dypraxia, depression, asperger. Are these diagnosis from a doctor, or did you come to the conclusions by doing the research on your own?
 
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Dypraxia, depression, asperger. Are these diagnosis from a doctor, or did you come to the conclusions by doing the research on your own?

all doctor diagnosed. dysthymia specifically, not depression. dysthymia is either really bad or really not so bad depending on how u look at it. the depression is not severe at any given time (unless on a double down) but the depression is ALWAYS there. even when everything is going great, you would welcome an easy suicide (easy physically and mentally), im too chicken shit to ever kill myself haha. pain (physical pain) hurts.
 

Latte

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im too chicken shit to ever kill myself haha. pain (physical pain) hurts.



2242102-gamer-gifs-i-know-that-feel-bro.gif
 

redbaron

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Now I know where baby Pikachu's come from.
 
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I have dangerous researched knowledge of how to kill oneself painlessly though. death can be physically pain free quite easily. problem is wanting to die and killing oneself are 2 very different things. actually killing yourself takes guts aside from the physical pain, u have to really commit to being sure you want to die and forfeit your entire future.
 
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Now I know where baby Pikachu's come from.

you suck at funny

edit: apon reading that it sounded like quite a jaded comment, it meant to be a humerous sarcasm fueled dismissal of your joke.
 

Latte

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Now I know where baby Pikachu's come from.

From the touching moments where suffering and apathy restrained despair meets suffering and apathy restrained despair, a spark is born to yellow form.

I have dangerous researched knowledge of how to kill oneself painlessly though. death can be physically pain free quite easily. problem is wanting to die and killing oneself are 2 very different things. actually killing yourself takes guts aside from the physical pain, u have to really commit to being sure you want to die and forfeit your entire future.

Yeah, there's a lot to consider besides it just being over. I personally came out of my "it is tempting to die" valley not being concerned about of forfeiting my future, but it's not everything. Also, other people will have to clean up one's mess unless one arranges everything to not leave a mess (physical one, at least. Like apartment, sorting out belongings). I think I'd be dead now if it wasn't for such concerns, and the grim vistas produced through imagining how it would be for those left behind.

It's a bit different for everyone.

But hey! As we're both sticking around, at least for now, let's enjoy ourselves at times, however muted it may be by whatever may mute it :3
 

Minuend

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Are you seeing a psychologist? Seeing your combination of difficulties, your best option might be to seek advice form someone who specializes in you, meaning having more accurate knowledge and perspective on your situation.
 
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my experience with psycologists has been meek. in short, I've never intellectually respected a psycologist enough to take his word over mine. I suspect i require an NT psycologist maybe.
 

kvothe27

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Have you taken any medications for you mental health problems?
 
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Have you taken any medications for you mental health problems?

I went on a course of prozac once, three weeks in I popped 23 of them in attempt to kill myself. doc hasnt given me them since, nor would i want them, I dont beleve medication is the solution to the problem, i think antidepressants exaserbate depression.
 

Milo

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I've talked to a psychiatrist and a psychologist after having a spout of cyanide poisoning. By the time I got to the hospital the temporary psychosis I had past--though I had memories of what I experienced and began to question if it was real or not.

Anyways. After regaining sanity, I went back to my normal everyday self (not depressed) and they still thought I was crazy and held me there for two weeks because I would openly talk about interesting topics with them engaging in a social context instead of a serious "professional context." They all petitioned to have me go on a 6 month treatment plan when I was completely normal.

But, thanks to my lawyer I got to go to another psychologist for a second opinion of whom I had to pretend to be a close minded individual to to prove my sanity, I was able to escape becoming a human vegetable (the drug they were going to put me on had side-effects of parkinson's and other things related to dopamine blockage).

So from my experience, psychologists and psychiatrists are extremely close minded and want others to fit into their own box. I have a feeling many of them suffer from confirmation bias.

So just watch out for what the "experts" say to you.
 

Hadoblado

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Sounds like a sensible bunch. Mine keeps peddling pseudoscience on me :storks:
 

Milo

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Sounds like a sensible bunch. Mine keeps peddling pseudoscience on me :storks:

You'd rather be put into a prison-like holding place for 6 months only eating and sleeping while taking meds that stop you from thinking?
 

ummidk

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I've talked to a psychiatrist and a psychologist after having a spout of cyanide poisoning. By the time I got to the hospital the temporary psychosis I had past--though I had memories of what I experienced and began to question if it was real or not.

Anyways. After regaining sanity, I went back to my normal everyday self (not depressed) and they still thought I was crazy and held me there for two weeks because I would openly talk about interesting topics with them engaging in a social context instead of a serious "professional context." They all petitioned to have me go on a 6 month treatment plan when I was completely normal.

But, thanks to my lawyer I got to go to another psychologist for a second opinion of whom I had to pretend to be a close minded individual to to prove my sanity, I was able to escape becoming a human vegetable (the drug they were going to put me on had side-effects of parkinson's and other things related to dopamine blockage).

So from my experience, psychologists and psychiatrists are extremely close minded and want others to fit into their own box. I have a feeling many of them suffer from confirmation bias.

So just watch out for what the "experts" say to you.


Lol....this is why I don't want to go to a psychiatrist...they peddle so many drugs. I'm not some huge anti-drug advocate by any means but I'd think becoming reliant on a drug would leave me worse off than I started.
 

Jennywocky

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I found Wellbutrin helpful for awhile, to provide enough energy for me to therapeutically work through my issues. On the other hand, my short experience with Effexor was horrific and left me kind of generally leery of ADs.

So I don't agree with those who consider pills a "silver bullet" that will fix their problems without any effort on the patient's part, but neither do I agree with those who are just anti-pills and say they don't help at all. Medication needs to be approached intelligently and cautiously, with the end goal being able to empower patients to face life with as little or no dose as possible.
 

Cherry Cola

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my experience with psycologists has been meek. in short, I've never intellectually respected a psycologist enough to take his word over mine. I suspect i require an NT psycologist maybe.

While my experience has been the same I don't think NT's make better psychologists. It's a feeler field more than a thinking one on average. I think S types are ill fit for it though, and unfortunately there are many S types, as well as people without a genuine interest in understanding human beings who go into the field because they want to "help people".

Furthermore psychology is a young science, everything being a blur puts a lot of weight on the individual practitioners which leads to even more fail.

That being said I think INFP's and INFJ's probably make the best psychologists, they have it in them naturally; dealing with people on a 1 to 1 basis.
 

Cavallier

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I read through this thread and maybe I'm jaded but all I'm hearing are wails of, "I refuse! I refuse! I refuse!".

:confused:
 

ummidk

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While my experience has been the same I don't think NT's make better psychologists. It's a feeler field more than a thinking one on average. I think S types are ill fit for it though, and unfortunately there are many S types, as well as people without a genuine interest in understanding human beings who go into the field because they want to "help people".

Furthermore psychology is a young science, everything being a blur puts a lot of weight on the individual practitioners which leads to even more fail.

That being said I think INFP's and INFJ's probably make the best psychologists, they have it in them naturally; dealing with people on a 1 to 1 basis.

While I agree that the sterotypes( I say sterotypes because I don't put much effort into studying MBTI or any of its variants) of INFJ's and INFP's would GENERALLY make the best psychologists. I think theres people who would benefit more from an NT psychologist, and probably the other types as well.
 

pluviophile

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Maybe you could try a therapist or counsellor instead of a psychologist or psychiatrist. I have one who is pretty awesome. I've found it can really help to talk about stuff to an unbiased source who you know won't say anything to anyone else due to confidentiality agreements. I was extremely leery of all the talking and trusting at first, but it's come to be something I look forward to every week.

I also know from experience that Zoloft is very good. I had several bad patches a few years ago, and Zoloft really helped me pull my shit together. The had me on some other stuff first, which was awful and made me zombie-like. All because one medicine didn't work for you doesn't mean others won't. JennyWocky is absolutely right about approaching it intelligently and with the right mindset.
 

Pizzabeak

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I was interested in seeing what death was like but the fear of pain isn't what stopped me... I wanted to come back and report the experience, but that apparently isn't possible so not committing suicide or dying rather seemed to be the best choice. Disregarding some relatively normal teen angst & confusion, I think, again seeing what death is like would be cool if it was possible to come back if it turns out you didn't like it.
Not sure how that idea comes off nowadays, as death seems similar to some slumber. Maybe except no dreams and whatnot, but just a complete cease to experience thing - maybe. I guess it is somewhat possible for it to be some continuous dream like state, just cause. But again, maybe pills or some injection would be the easiest way, but if one could slit the throat to experience death for 30 minutes or so then just decide to jump back in the body as if nothing happened, then write it down in a journal, well I'm not sure if I'd do that but at least someone would know what happens "after death" and could tell us all. Not sure why... Just cause I guess.
Apparently dying could be kinda weird... Imagine if you or a loved one were in some near death experience... Probably be kind of frightening.
 

Hadoblado

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You'd rather be put into a prison-like holding place for 6 months only eating and sleeping while taking meds that stop you from thinking?

It was a joke, we have different problems. Yours want to adhere to the book to the detriment of the patient, mine want to feed me rainbows and memory water.
 

Milo

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It was a joke, we have different problems. Yours want to adhere to the book to the detriment of the patient, mine want to feed me rainbows and memory water.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah. I was gonna say... :confused:

Ha!
 

Minuend

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Yes, there are bad or incompatible psychiatrists out there. But for every bad anecdote, there is also one good. Unless someone have some hard statistics they want to drag out from their inner pocket.

Anti deps. Often these have a side effect where suicidal thoughts will heighten the first weeks and it will then start working. The best thing is probably to google antidep and do some research. I read up on it quite a lot 3 years ago, but that information is somewhat forgotten and the rest might be outdated.

The brain maintain neural networks. If you are depressed, that network will be strengthened and more difficult to break out of. Meds can help changing that a little and help the brain prefer a bit less depressed pathway, so to speak.

When you practice multiplication of double digits in your head; If you do it often, you'll get better at it because the brain gets more efficient in those areas of the brain.
 

Hadoblado

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There's a lot of paranoia about antideps, but I've never experienced anything worse or more beneficial than moderate head-spins. I'm about to start badgering my doc for a different neurotinkering approach.
 

Latte

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Problems with anti-deps usually occur when one's neurological parameters are in significant ways untypical of the segment that got positive long term results in the initial trials that didn't leave the person with a lifelong dependence or a secondary problem. The brain is complex and the resulting adjustments of one mind / cognitive system will not be exactly like that of another.

Personally, I used a rather heavy anti-depressive (effexor) in my early years which I don't know whether produced side effects or not. I was already neuro-atypical in a visual-thinker high functioning autism manner*.
I developed social anxiety and a neurological disorder later (the latter likely largely unrelated). I think the development of anxiety resulted from a combination of its effects and elsethings, as in hindsight, I used to and would have had another emotional release/pathway available for the situation, though not a very pleasant one at the time. When using the substance, I reacted to it in a more subtle and less conscious way that that resulted in a slow build up towards general social anxiety.
Of course, I would have had another problem rather than anxiety to deal with if I had not utilized it. Something which would have been more apparent and at the moment more vivid to me than the creeping development of social anxiety, but ultimately I think I would have gotten over that problem faster and more easily with the proper interpersonal stimulation to spur me to process that state into something else.

Instead, I fell into what was more like a dead end slowly and stealthily enroaching without me or anyone else noticing or understanding. Effexor ended up as a crutch that made my leg not heal in the proper way for recovering towards my maximal potential, even though it alleviated the most obvious problems at the time.

Of course, in hindsight, I can paint a rosey picture of how things could have gone if the better of the likely courses of reality where to manifest themselves, but that might not have happened and for all I know I could have become worse off due to poor handling or poor stimuli leading to negative fallout from the higher freedom of cognitive potential that not utilizing the substance allowed.

Realistically, for some people, healing at the time is not possible within their current environment, and a crutch and the potential secondary problems can be less bad than the ones one reacts to at the time, and sometimes as mentioned in posts above, a period of using a crutch and having secondary problems can allow oneself to adjust in one's life and mind to a position to better handle the initial problems before or when/if one does decide to end using the cognitive parameter limiting substance. This is assuming the functions it inhibits can/will be restored once one stops utilizing it, which is not certain.

Today, I have problems with not being able to feel sad. I have very high difficulty feeling sad. And the issues I can work out or get temporarily relief from or process in some way through sadness now only adds stress to me, crushing me impersonally and emotionlessly lest I be wary and vigilant.

The rare times I am able to feel sad, i finally feel all the pent up stress dissolving into the vista of what gives me discontent, and am reminded of what relaxation can be like.

* I distinguish between this and aspergers, even though the distinction has been mostly abandoned in the more recent diagnosis lists.
 

Hadoblado

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Effexor was the one I used too. Didn't really do much for me, even on the highest dose :confused:

It did give me some sort of fit one time after a celebratory puff of a joint, but that's about it. If anything I guess you could say it scared me away from drugs :rolleyes:
 

Jennywocky

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Effexor was the one I used too. Didn't really do much for me, even on the highest dose :confused:

It did give me some sort of fit one time after a celebratory puff of a joint, but that's about it. If anything I guess you could say it scared me away from drugs :rolleyes:

Effexor didn't do much for me in treatment, and after four months or so I just didn't "feel right" if you get my gist -- I couldn't articulate a particular thing that was wrong, but I just kind of felt like "I need to get off this drug," it unnerved or irritated me somehow.

That was the part that sucked. First attempt to quit cold turkey lasted about a week -- I was constantly dizzy and couldn't think straight, it was like my head was stuffed with cotton. For a thinker type, this was pretty horrific. I abandoned my attempt to quit.

About two months later, after weaning myself to the lowest dose possible before stopping, I tried again. I STILL had the same side effects and this time stuck it out, dealing with about 4-6 weeks of dizziness and cotton-headedness in a tech work environment before everything settled out.

Never touching that stuff again.
 
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