INTP Holiday Misery

[Architect]

Share your pain, it doesn't help, but we can commiserate.

On my side; two sets of relatives. I just want a quiet day for Christmas, enjoying the down time working on my projects and maybe going for a hike. Unfortunately, even though we see the respective relatives frequently, we have to get together for some reason unknown to me. But these two sets are in conflict, and I'm trying to avoid getting squeezed between having to see everybody, and so spending my day traveling from one to the other.

And then, instead of engaging in some interesting conversations about art, science, politics or anything you might care to mention, we'll just make small talk and pass the time in pleasant turpitude. I'll end the day being glad it's done and looking forward to the next day where I can erase the memory.

You?

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

And then, instead of engaging in some interesting conversations about art, science, politics or anything you might care to mention, we'll just make small talk and pass the time in pleasant turpitude.

Looking forward to this.
Merry Saturnalia everyone!

 

[Duxwing]

Share your pain, it doesn't help, but we can commiserate.

On my side; two sets of relatives. I just want a quiet day for Christmas, enjoying the down time working on my projects and maybe going for a hike. Unfortunately, even though we see the respective relatives frequently, we have to get together for some reason unknown to me. But these two sets are in conflict, and I'm trying to avoid getting squeezed between having to see everybody, and so spending my day traveling from one to the other.

Ohhh.

And then, instead of engaging in some interesting conversations about art, science, politics or anything you might care to mention, we'll just make small talk and pass the time in pleasant turpitude. I'll end the day being glad it's done and looking forward to the next.

Extended small talk makes me want to scream in rage.

You?

My Christmas is quiet: mom, dad, brother, and presents. We open our gifts, take pictures, and retire to our rooms to enjoy. If you loathe holiday parties, then without drama stop attending them and instead send a nice card and gift to each party location: generally, unless you would demand that another person do what you do, feel not obligated to do it.

-Duxwing

 

[cloudhead]

There's my dads family and my moms family that live at two different ends of the country, so I have to pick one side. Last few years have been with my dad's side which means spending the holidays playing videogames with my cousin, and having a surgeon grandpa, doctor aunt, engineer uncle and INTP dad which is actually quite nice.
This christmas is with my moms side of the family which means two little girl cousins who don't talk to me because one is too shy (I've seen her only a couple of times) and the other I haven't even seen yet, and a religious grandma who believes everything she hears on TV.
And, what I dislike about christmas in general, gifts.
I suck at them, and have little enjoyment in executing the gift excange social protocol.

 

[Cognisant]

My father works on a mining project on the other side of the country so his side of the family is doing the whole thing on Sunday before he flies* back so for once I'm not spending the better half of Xmas in transit, very happy about that.

*: What's the future test use of "fly" as a verb? "Flies" doesn't seem right, google thinks it should be "will fly" but it doesn't flow right, the spellchecker I'm running suggests "fly's" which I didn't even know was valid

 

[Jennywocky]

Aside from possibly seeing friends, the only people I'm likely to spend Christmas with are my mom and my three kids.

Which is fine. I'm tired and would rather sleep.

When you live alone and have little money, Christmas is kind of a wash.

 

[Minuend]

I'm ENFP but this is in the lounge so what/eva

I'm with my family.

The good news is, here's always booze in some variant

I've been fairly depressed and figured I might be able to muster forth some nostalgic positive feelings and try to relax and forget. I haven't been particularly interested in Christmas for 3-4 years. But it seems I have grown mentally in such a way that I have become even more alienated from my family. Even those I used to get along with nicely is starting to drift off. We have little to no similar interests anymore. And it turns out, I still don't care about christmas.

Being unemployed for 4-5 months, having to talk about my life situation sucks. And people tend to think that you prefer using all your savings and have nothing to do. Because all young people are lazy.

I was originally planning on staying with my parents, but my brother invited them and that will mean me too. They will probably be annoyed and possibly nagging because I don't tolerate a lot of foods and wont be eating theirs. I have stopped eating meat as well.

The gift crap. In my family, gifts are tokens of care. If you tell everyone you wont be buying presents, they will buy you gifts, because obviously you have become some sort of insane. I have bought one present and its kinda stressing to do the whole christmas shopping thing.

And there's a gazilion social elements that prevents me from doing this and that. I want to go back to my apartment, but then everyone would think I don't care about their presents, which are practically them.

The socializing is dreadfully boring, and I keep checking my clock for when they will leave so I can return to my computer. My mother is okay to be around as she doesn't require us to talk all the time.

So I guess this have become more of a mental drain and I'm considering going home in the next few days. I'm probably more stressed than I should be because depression.

 

[Hadoblado]

I generally spend Christmas sleeping on the couch between attempts to convince the family that celebrating Christmas is against their best interest.

 

[Cavallier]

*: What's the future test use of "fly" as a verb? "Flies" doesn't seem right, google thinks it should be "will fly" but it doesn't flow right, the spellchecker I'm running suggests "fly's" which I didn't even know was valid

His side of the family is doing the whole thing on Sunday before he will fly back.

^^^If that is correct I'm giving up on the English language.

Perhaps we should go with: He will fly back after doing the whole thing with his side of the family on Sunday.

 

[TimeAsylums]

y no moar FeSi
jk

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

The only people from my family that are interesting to spend time with are the children and my brother. Kids; usually curious and asking questions, also noticing interesting things once in a while. Brother is gone in a faraway land and we won't be meeting on christmas or anytime soon.

As to the kids, I cannot even properly talk to them, because ideas i feed them are considered dangerous. I once read them the first half of fellowship of the ring and my second brother forbid me from reading fantasy to his children . 7-8 year olds, maybe I was deviated for reading this at age of 6, no clue.

I just feel bad when this lovely girl asks me every year we meet what is next in the story, she seems to remember every detail. Painful indeed.

I would be willing to outperform every christmas tradition if they were only so rational as to record the event.

Then every following year they could gather and watch the perfect show with perfect offerings and other perfections.

Unable to pass knowledge, unable to learn something, I could get some sleep then.

 

[Cavallier]

I once read them the first half of fellowship of the ring and my second brother forbid me from reading fantasy to his children . 7-8 year olds, maybe I was deviated for reading this at age of 6, no clue.

I just feel bad when this lovely girl asks me every year we meet what is next in the story, she seems to remember every detail. Painful indeed.

Read her the second part of the story!

What kind of monster makes a rule like that about their kids anyway? Bastard.

 

[Etheri]

My parents are driving me back to my lonesome appartment on xmas eve, because I get to study for januari finals. I'll be home for one evening (xmas eve) and go to a second family dinner (with grandparents and close relatives).

Both consist of several hours of eating and talking, followed by more talking and desert. And booze. Bubbles into wine into beer into coffee...

Also I'm not giving anyone presents, which I guess makes me an asshole, but I don't ask / need any presents from anyone either. I'll give presents once I earn my own money.

So overall, I guess christmas while at uni is pretty neat. You get the nice perks of good food, but exams are the perfect excuse concerning family dinners. I can deny all the boring ones with the excuse of study, and go to the ones I most enjoy because i'm such a family person, or something.

Before anyone gets jealous, the parts that suck is how even tho I'm only going to two family dinners, every person at these dinners will ask the exact same questions. Half those questions are not only repetitive and boring, but also meaningless. I abolutely hate the first half hour where everyone brags about that year's accomplishments and asks about yours. I'm not accomplishing anything, duh.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Architect ffs its gatherings like these which alcohol are the remedy for :P

 

[Architect]

Architect ffs its gatherings like these which alcohol are the remedy for :P

Yeah, INTP v2.0 doesn't like it when I drink. He says ... "Dad, you're not getting the BEER habit are you?" I think he heard once that drunk people get in car accidents and ever since then he doesn't let me drink the occasional beer. Kids are awesome ... it's fine with me.

The battle of the in-laws continues. Of course all the Sensors have to get their needs met (having the traditional Christmas, and seeing everybody) so blah ...

 

[redbaron]

my second brother forbid me from reading fantasy to his children

Can't forbid you if he's dead.

 

[Pyropyro]

As to the kids, I cannot even properly talk to them, because ideas i feed them are considered dangerous. I once read them the first half of fellowship of the ring and my second brother forbid me from reading fantasy to his children . 7-8 year olds, maybe I was deviated for reading this at age of 6, no clue.

I just feel bad when this lovely girl asks me every year we meet what is next in the story, she seems to remember every detail. Painful indeed.

That's just sad. The younger generation should be equipped with an imaginative mind, perhaps a better model than the ones that's installed in the older generation.

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

how come certain individuals who are capable of having a calm and rational conversation about the logical reasons why the celebration of christmas is at best absurd and at worst a reprehensible acquiescence to everything that is most despicable about our species in june are apparently incapable of recollecting said conversation as soon as chocolates in idealized snowy themed packaging and personalised festive socks start showing up in supermarkets? by december the hysteria re one's pre-agreed non participation in this fiasco usually escalates to increasingly emotional and teary appeals to nonsensical unrelated and irrelevant notions such as tradition (repetition of ancestral errors) and family (chance connection to a group which does not guarantee that any other characteristics are shared).
my theory about this loss of rationality is that certain individuals are highly susceptible to the emotive and hyper sensual trappings of the season and are rendered insensible by the flashing coloured lights, tinsel and sparkly baubles and by the prospect of the acquisition of shiny trinkets with which to feather their nests and impress potential mates.
i also wonder about the stereotypical seasonal suicides due to loneliness and would like to know what percentage of these deaths are actually caused by the dread of mandatory festive socializing with ones relatives.
let us thank the lord on his birthday for blessing us all with yeasts who turn one poison into another that we may intoxicate ourselves into oblivion, please pass the egg-nog so that i may forget.
bah fucking humbug.

 

[Base groove]

The more people who are present, the more pleasant it will be
If you want me to be pleasant, best to let me be
If my presence is all you require, while others presents are given
Then you won't ask any more of me, and we'll all have a nice fuking time

 

[pernoctator]

His side of the family is doing the whole thing on Sunday before he will fly back.

^^^If that is correct I'm giving up on the English language.

Perhaps we should go with: He will fly back after doing the whole thing with his side of the family on Sunday.

In terms of grammar, the only real rule is that you can't use "flew" or "flown". Because future tense doesn't actually exist. "will" is a verb (present tense); "will fly" technically means "intends to fly". "going to fly" could be described as something like "moving forward with flying as the outcome".

So it's always present tense. It's just a matter of choosing which style based on common usage. Generally the verb is used directly (without "will") when something is planned specifically, either immediately after making the statement ("I'm taking a nap") or at a given time ("tonight, we dine in hell"). But either way is fine.

Although, I think "doing the thing before he will fly" is wrong because "before" is now referring to "will" instead of "fly", meaning he doesn't even begin intending to fly unless they do the thing first (in the same sense as "unlocking the door before it will open") whereas "before he flies" allows for the flight to be planned all along.

 

[Cavallier]

My parents are driving me back to my lonesome appartment on xmas eve, because I get to study for januari finals. I'll be home for one evening (xmas eve) and go to a second family dinner (with grandparents and close relatives).

Both consist of several hours of eating and talking, followed by more talking and desert. And booze. Bubbles into wine into beer into coffee...

Also I'm not giving anyone presents, which I guess makes me an asshole, but I don't ask / need any presents from anyone either. I'll give presents once I earn my own money.

So overall, I guess christmas while at uni is pretty neat. You get the nice perks of good food, but exams are the perfect excuse concerning family dinners. I can deny all the boring ones with the excuse of study, and go to the ones I most enjoy because i'm such a family person, or something.

Before anyone gets jealous, the parts that suck is how even tho I'm only going to two family dinners, every person at these dinners will ask the exact same questions. Half those questions are not only repetitive and boring, but also meaningless. I abolutely hate the first half hour where everyone brags about that year's accomplishments and asks about yours. I'm not accomplishing anything, duh.

I wish I still had the "can't because I have to study" excuse. Now that's something worth being nostalgic about.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

So overall, I guess christmas while at uni is pretty neat. You get the nice perks of good food, but exams are the perfect excuse concerning family dinners. I can deny all the boring ones with the excuse of study, and go to the ones I most enjoy because i'm such a family person, or something.

Before anyone gets jealous, the parts that suck is how even tho I'm only going to two family dinners, every person at these dinners will ask the exact same questions. Half those questions are not only repetitive and boring, but also meaningless. I abolutely hate the first half hour where everyone brags about that year's accomplishments and asks about yours. I'm not accomplishing anything, duh.

True, great excuse, puts you in a realm of "do not touch, he has to use books".

The more people the less valuable conversations are, If everyone is listening then you don't even try to keep truthful and analytic responses, or you will look like a sociopath.

Accomplishments part, I once questioned the purpose of accomplishments and was presented a stream of great examples:Cars, Jobs, Children accomplishments, Relations with others. What about yourself, nothing, just keep up with others.

Part 2:

how come certain individuals who are capable of having a calm and rational conversation about the logical reasons why the celebration of christmas is at best absurd and at worst a reprehensible acquiescence to everything that is most despicable about our species in june are apparently incapable of recollecting said conversation as soon as chocolates in idealized snowy themed packaging and personalised festive socks start showing up in supermarkets?

Hype , or just hypocrisy, the same thing in this case.

by december the hysteria re one's pre-agreed non participation in this fiasco usually escalates to increasingly emotional and teary appeals to nonsensical unrelated and irrelevant notions such as tradition (repetition of ancestral errors) and family (chance connection to a group which does not guarantee that any other characteristics are shared).
my theory about this loss of rationality is that certain individuals are highly susceptible to the emotive and hyper sensual trappings of the season and are rendered insensible by the flashing coloured lights, tinsel and sparkly baubles and by the prospect of the acquisition of shiny trinkets with which to feather their nests and impress potential mates.

That is interesting, I am currently trying to figure out my brother #2. He seems to be deceiving himself, avid fantasy reader, (seemingly [E/I][N/S]TJ), and the problematic part, whenever we talk in private we understand each other, we can talk about fantasy, games, politics etc. He then is very cynical and disdainful or joking. When he is accompanied by his wife or children/family, he is full sensor, mentions cars, his job, accomplishments yada yada, and seems to enjoy being praised by others for this. So he is quite binary I'd say. It seems as if he was very much like me in the past but tries to deny my ways and uncertainty.
So it is uncertain if he put himself on this tracks and he enjoys it and was sure all the way, or he just likes/liked other stuff and maintains facade.

As for other people I have understood better. I have a friend that just doesn't care about traditions and social norms when with friends but behaves quite conformist when required.

i also wonder about the stereotypical seasonal suicides due to loneliness and would like to know what percentage of these deaths are actually caused by the dread of mandatory festive socializing with ones relatives.
let us thank the lord on his birthday for blessing us all with yeasts who turn one poison into another that we may intoxicate ourselves into oblivion, please pass the egg-nog so that i may forget.
bah fucking humbug.

But he is our lord? No? What would you do if you lost your shepherd?

 

[BigApplePi]

It's an opportunity for my sister to visit. That's good. She said she wanted a fancy toaster for Christmas. That's easy. I got her the toaster. She asked me what I wanted. I said to help me get that electronic transfer thingie working. It lay on the table for months as a present from last year. My wife finally took it off the table (don't blame her). Now we'll find out if sis can get the thing going. My wife said it needed parts. What parts? I bot the wireless adapter. Do I need anything else? I don't want to look. Damn. Now I have to put all that stuff back on the table. I wish this were over with. Wishing won't help. Maybe my wife and sis can get it going. I hate thinking about it. Talk about procrastination.

 

[kaelum]

It's an opportunity for my sister to visit. That's good. She said she wanted a fancy toaster for Christmas. That's easy. I got her the toaster. She asked me what I wanted. I said to help me get that electronic transfer thingie working. It lay on the table for months as a present from last year. My wife finally took it off the table (don't blame her). Now we'll find out if sis can get the thing going. My wife said it needed parts. What parts? I bot the wireless adapter. Do I need anything else? I don't want to look. Damn. Now I have to put all that stuff back on the table. I wish this were over with. Wishing won't help. Maybe my wife and sis can get it going. I hate thinking about it. Talk about procrastination.

I can commiserate with this. I have a sirus radio car kit I've never installed because I didn't put time into it even after I requested it as a gift. I view useful tech as something that almost always needs troubleshooting so it will stay in the closet until it becomes obsolete or I find I have too much need to waste time listening to commercials when I just want to relax while listening to music....ehhh, anyways....

Even when I believed in the holidays I was partaking in, I never felt again the awe that I felt as a child around the holidays---I wouldn't call the lack of awe something to be miserable about, but I now see this season as a period of obligation, gotta go and entertain my parents, to remember to buy presents for everyone's kids because it's the one time I see some of them in a year, and I would like to claim a small bit of their quickly dissipating childhood. *neutral face* I don't dislike this time of year, but it can get exhausting.

 

[Late2theParty]

I never felt again the awe that I felt as a child around the holidays---I wouldn't call the lack of awe something to be miserable about, but I now see this season as a period of obligation, gotta go and entertain my parents, to remember to buy presents for everyone's kids because it's the one time I see some of them in a year, and I would like to claim a small bit of their quickly dissipating childhood.

That is something that does bother me sometimes, I remember how much awe xmas used to have as a child...now its like any other day of the year. So far though my xmas isn't too bad. My dad is an some sort of Istj, so he keeps things low key and logical... Which is fine by me. The number one thing that bothers me I guess is going back home reminds me so much about why I left the nest. I wanted to get away from my boring hometown and settled lifestyle of my parents and generally not feel trapped. After I went to college and struck out on my own, I didn't do well in terms of things I wanted to accomplish... So going back makes me feel like I'm still stuck like in childhood.

Also, I would much rather spend more time with close friends on xmas, rather than family. My family is ok, but I feel if I really wanted celebrate the spirit of xmas I would spend it with very close friends... As our relationships are more intimate than those with just family. But alas, can't because they are with their own families

 

[Cherry Cola]

Finished Christmas with a 2-hour discussion about the human cognition, psychology, biology and stuff like that with a 50 year old (presumed) INTP relative, it ended when it was time to go home for both of us, which was all good though, because by then I had reached the limit of how much alcohol I can drink before I start acting inapropriate.

 

[Architect]

One down, one to go. On the whole it wasn't bad. One blowup, ISFJ host, who was already in her cups probably, went on a rant how nobody drinks anymore, and it's all OK in "moderation". Maybe so, but moderation can mean a lot of things, and isn't true regardless. Is arsenic OK in moderation?

On the one hand I can't understand how keeping the past (in this case to alcoholic 50's entertaining meme) is so important. On a pure typological basis it intellectually makes sense - ISFJ's are obsessed with tradition. I felt sad for them, must be hard to have that kind of dependency on other people who will all act however they wish.

Anyhow, other than that it was relatively pleasant, and afterwards we went for a run which I haven't done in a long while. That felt good.

 

[Base groove]

One down, one to go. On the whole it wasn't bad. One blowup, ISFJ host, who was already in her cups probably, went on a rant how nobody drinks anymore, and it's all OK in "moderation". Maybe so, but moderation can mean a lot of things, and isn't true regardless. Is arsenic OK in moderation?

On the one hand I can't understand how keeping the past (in this case to alcoholic 50's entertaining meme) is so important. On a pure typological basis it intellectually makes sense - ISFJ's are obsessed with tradition. I felt sad for them, must be hard to have that kind of dependency on other people who will all act however they wish.

Anyhow, other than that it was relatively pleasant, and afterwards we went for a run which I haven't done in a long while. That felt good.

Is alcohol ok in moderation? It seems like you imply it is not, but to compare it to arsenic,
Makes it seem like you are using introverted feeling

You accuse the ISFJ of wanting to reproduce her inner vision of party hosting, alcoholism, and social connections, with an air of disdain and shallow pity,

Saying she is "obsessed with tradition"

Basically neglecting to acknowledge the ISFJ is a dominant sensory type, who focuses of the wants and needs of others, in the present moment,

But you felt better

After a little jog?

Must be hard, to have that kind of dependency on your senses, that you can't appreciate somebody else's point of view without becoming grounded first with a little stimulation from good old Mother Nature,

And this has nothing to do with connecting to the past, oh no,

which I haven't done in a long while

 

[Cherry Cola]

Not everyone can drink in moderation, and when you've got someone or some people who can't then it can be better for no one to drink because adults shouldn't lose themselves in drunken stupor in front of kids.

Furthermore, not everyone cares about drinking either. Some people care to drink but care about what others care about as well putting them in the dilemma about whether to go with the flow or do what they want, maybe that was the case with the ISFJ? If it wasn't so and it had been officially decided beforehand that there would be no drinking then what was the point of whining about on the very evening?

Either case ISFJ fail.

Finally, feeling good after a little jog is a pretty universal thing, and your post is seriously like the worst attempt at criticism I've seen in ages.

 

[Architect]

Is alcohol ok in moderation? It seems like you imply it is not, but to compare it to arsenic ...

Let me guess, you're new here.

Not everyone can drink in moderation, and when you've got someone or some people who can't then it can be better for no one to drink because adults shouldn't lose themselves in drunken stupor in front of kids. ... Finally, feeling good after a little jog is a pretty universal thing, and your post is seriously like the worst attempt at criticism I've seen in ages.

Interesting reaction, I was actually going for a little comedy and maybe some social commentary. Since you mention it though there's a long back story here. This particular ISFJ relative seems to be going through some kind of midlife crises and it's manifesting around freaking out at these little social gatherings. We're having to deal with outright rudeness, bad behavior, embarrassing freak outs and the like. Not sure what is causing it other than the world is moving on and she can't deal with that. Inferior grip, midlife crises?

The alcohol comment was the freak out for today, thankfully it wasn't directed at me, but while it's too complicated to explain, she did manage to get in some digs in, rehashing the last time when she gave me underserved grief. We don't know why she's focusing on me so much, other than perhaps because I'm the most independent and different she has a target to vent her conformity spleen on. Too bad, we used to have a good relationship and I otherwise like her, I'm hoping it'll improve again someday.

Does that make more sense?

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I didn't see this one coming...had a great Christmas! Presents kept to a minimum, low key and casual atmosphere. Lots of small talk yes, but joking around, games of ping-pong, bowling and guessing games. Laughter-a-plenty and seeing my children enjoying themselves gave me great joy.

 

[Cherry Cola]

@archie: Aye it does.

See that Base Groove? I guess that kinda prooves the point I pointed out to you on my wall.

 

[Base groove]

See that Base Groove? I guess that kinda prooves the point I pointed out to you on my wall.

No I just don't want to clutter the thread.

I believe the terminology being used was "from an intellectual standpoint",
Not,
Particular circumstances relevant to this individual case (your standpoint, Cherry Cola)

Followed by,
Stereotypes loosely based in typology (intellectual, no less)
To rationalize why disdain and pity are the appropriate affect (globally)

This being the reason for my remarks,
Perhaps if one wishes to tell a story that demeans another,
One should tell the whole story

Spoiler

Reader: if you feel there is missing context, refer yourself to the exchange in question

 

[Duxwing]

I didn't see this one coming...had a great Christmas! Presents kept to a minimum, low key and casual atmosphere. Lots of small talk yes, but joking around, games of ping-pong, bowling and guessing games. Laughter-a-plenty and seeing my children enjoying themselves gave me great joy.

Awww!

-Duxwing

 

[BigApplePi]

Got this present this AM. Enjoy:

http://www.ox.ac.uk/subsite/christmas_cards/christmas_cards/xmas2013.html